Greece & ISIS - next few weeks looking dodgy

[unclebulgaria67]

It seems to be a way of life of the Greek government.. it would appear their economy wasn't as sound as required by the EU when first joining and ever since have been borrowing money to pay off previous debts without ever having a forward plan - when the global economy went belly up they were in a very vulnerable position. When they got caught out at the last loan and were told they needed to sort themselves out.. they threw a wobbly and voted in this guy who thinks he can blackmail Europe in to writing off their debts so they can come off the austerity programme that the rest of us have been dealing with these last 8 years or so ?

 

Trouble is that Greece have been making cuts since 2005, after a December 2014 report by the EU commission said that Greece gave false information when they were accepted for the Euro. The cuts they have been making seemed to have made the situation worse, as they have not been done in a way that protects the economy from being able to recover. Greece needs to work out , how they can earn the money and to not fritter it away on high pay for public officials or on spending that is not needed.

 

The 2004 Olympics cost them a fortune and they have borrowed loads of money since joining the Euro in 2002, because they don't get the income. VAT is subject to massive fraud with over 33% not collected. Defence spending is more than the average.

[unclebulgaria67]

and then do them for irresponsible lending, get the debt wiped

 

Greece apparently has always received money from the EU, but this was cut back from about 2001, when the EU was helping new EU countries from eastern Europe. Greece never made up for this lost EU money and then borrowed loads of money after joining the Euro.

 

The Euro area countries are going to have to form a closer economic union or face the currency failing within 10 years. Germans and the French are not going to want to pay more into the EU/ECB and accept more potential liability from other countries, so they may want to go back to their own currencies.

[Guest]

early forecast

'With more than 20% of votes counted, results from the Greek referendum suggest voters have rejected the terms of an international bailout...'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33403665

[tobyjugg2]

The Euro area countries are going to have to form a closer economic union or face the currency failing within 10 years.

 

and there is the ONLY method in the lending madness.

[Consumer dude]

Just had a knock on the knock from the accounts department of greece and did I have any spare tea bags until pay day. lol..

[citizenB]

 

Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis has said that with a "No" vote, Greek banks would reopen on Tuesday.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33403665

 

If they don't have any money - why open ?

[Consumer dude]

If they don't have any money - why open ?

 

Monday will be taken of for Greece to consider if another vote is needed..

[citizenB]

I wonder why the Debt purchasers haven't raced to purchase this debt at a cut down price

[tobyjugg2]

OK - so what could happen if Greece gives the EU a big FU and leaves telling the troika to shove their debt.

 

... This is banks we are talking about - we will all pay it.

... and yes I do mean us - as you can guarantee that UK financial systems are up to their ears in this hoping to make a buck yet knowing that we'll all pay if they don't.

 

Shows just how bad the system is when 'banks' run out of money but still have most of the savers savings unpaid - the only 'real' money they had.

[citizenB]

Why cant they track down all those Greek billionaires who have their money offshore in tax havens and put a stop on them taking any money out until such times as they have paid their taxes !

[unclebulgaria67]

Why cant they track down all those Greek billionaires who have their money offshore in tax havens and put a stop on them taking any money out until such times as they have paid their taxes !

 

Some of it, is not even offshore in a tax haven. I worked for a finance company back in the 80's and some of our wealthiest customers mostly living in London were Greek shipping multi millionaires. The richest from Greece have not lived there for a very long time.

[tobyjugg2]

Why cant they track down all those Greek billionaires who have their money offshore in tax havens !

 

They aren't lost

- they are all at Cameron's fund raiser lunch at one of his homes.

[tobyjugg2]

Well, it looks like the Greeks have been sold out, and will be asset stripped to pay banks (and their shareholders) who lent irresponsibly..

Nothing new here then.

[citizenB]

Sold out by their own government. Why have a referendum to find out what the Greek people want. Then agree to everything plus more in the way of austerity that the Greek people voted against ?

[citizenB]

So will the Greek people now try and vote the current prime minister out, and replace with a new one who will want to default on the plan !!

[unclebulgaria67]

Don't think the Greek PM had much choice. The Greeks Banks are within a few days of running out of money and weeks of being forced out of the Euro. If they left the Euro, the credit rating would be even worse and cost of borrowing much higher.

 

It was better to take the money and the medicine. It is going to take years for Greece to make changes.

[tobyjugg2]

I agree, particularly with the reports describing the meetings as waterboarding him.

 

But what did he expect? I had thought he either understood the game, or was enough of a statesman and patriot to have some options perhaps less appalling to the Greek nation.

In either case there would be years or decades of striving, and I am not sure which might have been ultimately better for the Greeks.

 

I think it possible he depended on fear of Greece exiting and becoming more aligned with Russia/China through necessity and simply didn't clearly understand what a pit they have dug for themselves, and the lengths the troika/political arm would go to in promoting and progressing their interests.

 

Lambs to the slaughter.

 

 

Brings to mind the far lesser Lib Dems and student votes debacle as examples that these are not isolated incidents but inherent in the current systems.

[obiter dictum]

You do realise British Banks have lent Greece some 8.9 Billion pounds before attacking the ECB

 

If you are looking to blame try closer to home first, we are as much complicit in this than any other European bank

[tobyjugg2]

You do realise British Banks have lent Greece some 8.9 Billion pounds before attacking the ECB

 

If you are looking to blame try closer to home first, we are as much complicit in this than any other European bank

 

Apologies if you misunderstood my summary.

Bankers sans frontieres

Of course the British+US arms of the Investment Banking fraternity are involved, the Troika are just the front end in this case.

 

They may try to make money off each other from time to time, but working together to shaft everyone else makes that unnecessary doesn't it.

[citizenB]

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010

 

Very interesting read and gives a pretty good idea how Greece has got itself in such a muddle.

[tobyjugg2]

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010

 

Very interesting read and gives a pretty good idea how Greece has got itself in such a muddle.

 

It certainly is. (even with no mention of merkel shifting the dept, other than 'Germans being even more German')

 

In a sad way, I was captured by :

 

"Oddly enough, the financiers in Greece remain more or less beyond reproach. They never ceased to be anything but sleepy old commercial bankers. Virtually alone among Europe’s bankers, they did not buy U.S. subprime-backed bonds, or leverage themselves to the hilt, or pay themselves huge sums of money. The biggest problem the banks had was that they had lent roughly 30 billion euros to the Greek government—where it was stolen or squandered.

In Greece the banks didn’t sink the country. The country sank the banks."

[Conniff]

Sold out by their own government. Why have a referendum to find out what the Greek people want. Then agree to everything plus more in the way of austerity that the Greek people voted against ?

 

At least they had the referendum. Gordon Brown promised the country a referendum and then refused to give us one and just signed away our national sovereignty.

[Conniff]

One thing I did notice, they have promised as part of the package to increase the rich income tax to 29%. Bloody 'ell, that is very low even compared to ours which is 40% and more.

 

If they are increasing it, what is it now!

[tobyjugg2]

At least they had the referendum. Gordon Brown promised the country a referendum and then refused to give us one and just signed away our national sovereignty.

 

LOL

Of course (not), being given a referendum then shafted anyway is far better...

[obiter dictum]

Conniff

 

How did Gordon Brown sign away the UK Sovereignty to the EU??

 

The British Parliament is, and always will be the supreme legislature to make, amend and repeal all laws of the United Kingdom.

 

If the UK ever wanted to exit from the EU all it will need to do is repeal the European Communities Act 1972

 

That is quite an erroneous statement you have made.