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    • Yes. I'd be very interested to know how the defendant fared in putting forward the defence that the calaimant had been contributorily negligent by not keeping their cat under control. I'm aware that some people might find that fatuous, distracting or confusing, but the reality is that I'm not aware of any law that imposes a duty upon cat owners to keep their pets under control.  Whereas I believe the law does hold dog owners responsible for their dogs in public places. I'm not certain it was at all beneficial to the OP to suggest that blaming the claimant was a credible defence...
    • Okay, perfect. they did say BS is invoked as soon as i fill in their application form, ill get a pin. i had to press them more on this as they didnt want to discuss BS much. so i should fill in the form and get the pin, then i can initiate BS. What will follow and what should i do after? Thanks again for all the help and patience.
    • Good evening, so not a good weekend reviewing paperwork -- I have lost some proofs of postage.. also, although not provided at CCA, they have now supplied a DN in their WS, please see scan of claimants WS (without statements) Document with tick boxes as signatures doesn't look like an agreement and is split across pages. Documents have been stapled and copied multiple times looking at the top left of them. Aside from that, having read other threads, I suspect they have everything? appreciate your input please Sorry for heavy redactions, I noticed the paperwork was see-through LinkHalifaxCC1.compressed.pdf
    • Received a final demand today Final demand.pdf
    • Here is my final draft: I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in the claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act.   1.        The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date.   2.        I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment.   As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.   3.        The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’.  The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents.   4.        Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018.   5.        I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020.   6.        Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicotors is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’   7.        I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’.   8.        The claimant relies upon and exhibits a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement.   It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HH Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’.   The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause.   9.        Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not try to mislead the court.   10.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024
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discrimination


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To be honest - I just want to be treated with the respect I deserve, The same respect that is given to the men of the club

 

I have tried to talk and reason with them, but it is like banging your head against a brick wall, they are adamant they are in the right,

 

Maybe just to drag them into the 21 century ( hopefully)

 

I would be willing to take this as far as I could though :)

 

thanks again for all the help

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I have heard the equality act 2010 does not apply to all private working mens clubs and some can discriminate against women ( disgraceful i know)

How would I go about bringing a case against them, What would it cost, and what would my chances be of winning.

 

thanks again

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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I can't really find anything about private clubs that can discriminate, thats why I asked on here,

 

I would have took it as a association with more than 25 members and formal rules for joining, which would make it part of the equality act.

 

But also to be honest, I am sure this club makes there rules up as it goes along,

They have broke that many :evil:

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According to them I am not a member anyway lol

 

Unless I can get the rules changed, I will not set foot in the place again, but if they can do it to me they will always get away with it

In my opinion the only reason they won't change is it will effect there fiddle

 

I really want to take this further, but I would need to be sure I could win

 

hopefully I will get there

thanks honeybee

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Based on what you say then, it may be prudent to set out your complaint in writing to the club. Refer to the Equality Act (specific breaches) and provide specific examples of lawful/unlawful discrimination from those documents listed previously. They may just need a bit of educating, but either way you will know where you stand.

 

Failing that, it's really upto you whether to take it further. For a money claim you'd have to show to a judge, on the balance of probabilities, that the club was in breach of the Equality Act and have failed to remedy it (this is where your written letter of complaint comes in). A breach is a breach, but you'd need to carefully consider whether you have enough evidence to show it has happened.

 

Before any of that, you'd also have to work out what your losses are. How much is your membership? You could maybe think about claiming £200-300 for distress as a ballpark figure. No one can ever guarantee a win regardless of how strong your case is. But if you can show unlawful discrimination has occured, it's a pretty strong case.

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The link i posted is a guide regarding associations/club s etc nd how the equality act impacts on them.

 

Read through it, you might find the information you need to back your ocmplaint.

 

If not, cook some chips and have it with the fish.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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The link i posted is a guide regarding associations/club s etc nd how the equality act impacts on them.

 

Read through it, you might find the information you need to back your ocmplaint.

 

If not, cook some chips and have it with the fish.

 

For me the link comes up as commentary on Carey HSBC

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Whoops.

See this is why men shouldnt multitask 😀

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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I can't write a letter to the club, They don't read women's letter :|

 

Discrimination has definately occurred, but unless I can prove membership, they are allowed to do it.

As I said in an earlier post, a man would have got a letter, to appear before the committee and had a fair hearing and a chance to appeal.

 

I have read somewhere they would need to justify why the equality act does not apply to them. will try and find the article again

 

thanks

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You can write the letter, but whether they reply is up to them ;) Send it recorded if you do decide to send one.

 

If you have a membership card (your "lady card") and have copies of documentation you signed - IMO that should be enough to show you are a member. Albeit one at a serious disadvantage to male members.

 

And remember: they can't discriminate against guests either, should it be decided by a court that you are not a member.

 

You must not do something to a member, associate member or guest (including a prospective member or guest) which has (or would have) a worse impact on them and on other people who share a particular protected characteristic than on people who do not share that characteristic. Unless you can show that what you have done is objectively justified, this will be what is called indirect discrimination. ‘Doing something’ can include making a decision, or applying a rule or way of doing things.

 

Source: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/s...b__society.pdf (Page 15)

 

As it stands, it boils-down to three options:

 

1) Do nothing and accept the behaviour.

2) Vote with your feet - don't go back.

3) Take further action, whether via complaint or court, or both.

 

There is not really a lot more to add. Check previous posts. If they didn't want female members/guests, then the lawful solution would be to restrict membership to males and not allow guests at all. Not allow both and treat you with contempt.

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I think it would be lawful for them to restrict females from becoming members and entering the premises, but I do not think they can legally have a two-tier membership system where ladies are treated worse than men.

 

If you wanted to take this further, the nuclear option would be to issue a claim in the county court. I think the legal basis for this would be s29 and s114 of the Equality Act 2010. You should phrase this as a claim for a fixed sum of money in order to ensure that the claim is allocated to the small claims track (which vastly reduces the chance of being ordered to pay the club's legal costs if you lose).

 

As this is presumably an unincorporated club rather than a company or a registered charity, you would need to claim against the committee members responsible for the discrimination personally.

 

You would claim for any provable financial loss you have suffered (it doesn't sound like there is anything), plus injury to feelings. There are guidelines for this known as the 'Vento guidelines' which have a low, middle and high bracket. The low bracket which ranges from £700 to £7000. I think this case is at the bottom of the low bracket.

 

You would be expected to make every effort to get the club to treat you properly first. Before issuing a claim you would be expected write a formal 'letter before action' setting out what you want them to do, and explaining that you will bring court action for gender discrimination if they do not address the issue.

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The committee , says its restricted to male members only, we are classed as lady card holders. I always thought we were female members,( not full members)

 

I think its unincorperated , definately unaffliated.

 

The club was registered with companies house in 2010 (I came across this by accident) but has actually been around since early 1970's maybe earlier, if this makes any difference

 

I will write a letter of complaint see where that gets me

 

thanks again

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Club

 

An organization composed of people who voluntarily meet on a regular basis for a mutual purpose other than educational, religious, charitable, or financial pursuits. A club is any kind of group that has members who meet for a social, literary, or political purpose, such as health clubs, country clubs, book clubs, and women's associations. The term club is not a legal term per se, but a group that organizes itself as a club must comply with any laws governing its organization and otherwise be cognizant of the legal ramifications in undertaking to organize itself in this manner.

Various types of clubs exist. An incorporated members' club is composed of a group of individuals who each contribute to the club's funds, which are used to pay the expenses of conducting the society. An unincorporated proprietary club is one whose proprietor owns the property and funds and conducts the club to attempt to make a profit. The members are entitled to use the premises and property in exchange for the payment of entrance fees and subscriptions to the proprietor as well as any additional rights and privileges provided in their contractual agreement.

An incorporated club is generally governed by state statute. Many statutes provide for the incorporation of clubs, and the statutory requirements must be strictly observed. A statute may require that an application for incorporation state the purposes of the club in a definitive manner to help the court determine whether the objective of the club is legal. In addition, the application should state the manner in which club revenues are to be provided and the basis upon which an individual may become a member of the club.

A club's certificate of incorporation should indicate pecuniary means (i.e., funds, money, property), describe the objective of the club, and specify a place of business or office. If a club is unincorporated, the rules that govern associations apply.

Voluntary clubs are not partnerships, since the members do not join them for profit-making purposes and, unlike partners, are not responsible for the acts of each other. If a club's members do unite for a commercial venture, however, this association would constitute a partnership. In such cases, a club might be required to comply with state law governing partnerships.

 

 

would the highlighted part apply??

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The club was registered with companies house in 2010 (I came across this by accident) but has actually been around since early 1970's maybe earlier, if this makes any difference

Yes, this makes a difference. If the club is an incorporated company or a limited liability partnership registered on Companies House, then you would need to sue that entity as it has separate legal personality from its members. An unincorporated association does not have separate legal personality from its members.

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xxxxxxxxxx Social Club nd INSTITUTE LIMITED was founded on 2010-07-27 and has its registered office in . The organisation's status is listed as "Active". xxxxxxxxxx Social Club And Institute Limited is a Industrial and Provident Society registered in with Companies House and the accounts submission requirement is categorised as NO ACCOUNTS FILED

 

am lost to what you are meaning steampowered

 

this help any ???

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On reply to eversir's post, they can't discriminate against guests the problem is

 

I am not a member :|

I am not an associate member:|

I am not a guest :|

 

I am a lady card holder ( if someone could explain what this is and what catagory it comes under)

 

please

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By the legal definition, you are either a member (quite likely) or if not, a guest.

 

It is true you could be neither if you never attended the club, but that is not the case.

 

The argument is whether your "lady card" can be classed as membership. There is a strong argument that the club, in fact, operates a two tier membership system based on gender. Failing that, at the very least you could be deemed a guest.

 

In either instance, the club will have discriminated unlawfully.

 

Steampowered's advice in post #42 goes into detail about what you can do if you want to take it further :)

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