Within 7 days social landlord

[francis1306]

I previously wrote post titled ‘housingbenefit overpayment due to rent free weeks being paid’ 7 days ago. I receivednumber of responses and also tried to clarify a few points. ID6052 may have hitthe nail on the head but the landlord say the arrears refer only to the currentproperty!

My last contact with landlord was 2 daysago, Monday, when landlord employee said she would post out to me a printout ofMothers rent account and a few paragraphs as to how they see the rent arrearshave arisen. At least with this it would be something tangible and in writing.The only way the landlord has dealt with this is via 2 calls and 1 visit frommyself to their offices (when I spoke to different member of staff). Haven’treceived this information in writing yet-at time of posting.

I did yesterday, speak with my Mother,again 7 days after she, and then I, were made aware of the rent arrears accruedaccording to landlord, as explained in earlier post.

Mother told me she had received letterfrom landlord head office demanding that she pay rent account arrears (of over£500) within 3 days or further action will be taken. This is the 1stletter that has been received regarding this problem. No explanation in writingas to how arrears accrued, just a straight forward demand for payment within 3days.

How can landlord be allowed to send aletter of demand when they have not even explained fully how they arrears havearisen?

Don’t know of each of other 40 affectedtenants have been treated similarly but find the landlords practicedisgraceful. Surely there is protocol which they must follow before sending outdemand for payment?

So enraged that a pensioner with health problems and dementia is allowed to be treated this way.

Comments welcome.

[estellyn]

I'm confused. I thought you were aware how the arrears have occurred?

 

The LA pay housing benefit direct to the social landlord. They made an error and mistakenly paid the landlord for rent free weeks. They have informed the landlord of their error, and the landlord is required by law to pay the overpayment back to the LA.

 

Normally this overpayment would be sitting around in the rent account of the tenant, would be paid back to the LA, and there would be no issues. In your mother's case, this £500 was mistakenly paid to your mother with the £400 legitimate excess in her rent account meaning that when the £500 for the rent free weeks was returned to the LA, it left your mother's account £500 in arrears.

 

I realise this can be a difficult situation - especially if your mother has already spent the money. If she hasn't then make the payment to the landlord. If she has spent the money, then you have two choices: your mother can make a payment arrangement as before with the landlord and set up a direct debit for x amount per month, or you can attempt to negotiate with the landlord to get the arrears waived as it was their error. I don't know if this would be successful, but I doubt it as I don't think there is any legislation on her side - a housing expert could maybe help with that. You may end up arguing with the LA, only to have to enter into an payment arrangement in the end. With trying to argue the case, there is always the chance that possession proceedings could be started against your mother.

 

Another way to see this is that when your mother accidently paid the landlord too much, they returned the money - so now the landlord has paid her too much by mistake, they are expecting her to treat the matter the same way.

 

Hope that helps.

[francis1306]

Estellyn, I understand what you’re saying but the when rentrebate was paid to my Mother in March, there was no evidence that HB hadoverpaid rent free weeks. Indeed, when speaking with landlord regarding thisrebate and how it arose back in March, they agreed that the account should nothave reached that stage and the DD from my Mothers account to Allpay Ltd, whichwas subsequently past onto landlord rent account, should have been cancelled atleast a year earlier, at around beginning of 2013! We were not told in Marchthat actually only £400 is to be paid to Mother as £500 has been overpaid byHB!

Take an example that a tenant is entitled to full HB through whatevermeans. This is paid from HB direct to tenant and from tenant to landlord. Now,let’s say that after 2 years, the tenants own bank accounts shows an unexpectedhigher balance than expected. In this example it would be = 4 weeks rent, butthese figures are entwined with other transactions showing on the tenants bankstatement. Then it transpires that HB have been paying ‘rent free weeks’ totenant, but the tenant has not realised this and spent this unexpected higherbalance on xmas gifts. There has been no changes in circumstances that thistenant ought to have notified HB about. As far as tenant knew, HB were payinginto his account and tenant in turn paying rent to landlord. Surely, even HBwould have to agree that this is an error and as such classed as unrecoverable?

Finally, as I said initially, surely landlord cannot demandpayment within 3 days, especially when this is the 1stcorrespondence received. This information has only come to light in past 7 (now8) days and has only been given in 2 phone calls and 1 visit to the landlordoffice. No other correspondence has been received explaining the problem.

It appears the initial error is due to HB inputting wrong infoor being given wrong info by landlord. Surely on this basis then is should beeither down to HB or landlord to accept responsibility for their errors andaccept they are at fault!

[estellyn]

I understand where you are coming from francis, and yes, when paid to the tenant it would be unrecoverable and official error, and I believe the landlord is entitled to challenge recovery in official error cases, but only on their own behalf, and only if they can show they couldn't know they were being overpaid..

 

It is standard for a social landlord to start with a demand for payment - things then escalate within a few letters to a notice of seeking possession.

 

As I said, you can request that the landlord write off the arrears due to their own error....but be aware in the meantime possession proceedings may start. I'm not an expert in housing law and what rights a tenant may have to get the arrears written off in this situation, so I can't really say more than that.

[francis1306]

Hi Estellyn, Again thanksfor your response and your view on my example.

Now let me go back to Marchof this year. I wanted to clarify a couple of matters with regard to my MothersAA and SDP (these had only just been applied for and awarded) and wished toconfirm backdated payments received so I could explain these to Mother.

It was at that stage I realizedthat a DD to Allpay Ltd was still being paid. I rang Allpay who confirmed thatthis account was in credit and as such the DD should have ceased some timebefore. They could only tell me that the payments were being sent onto myMothers landlord.

Following the above Icontacted landlord in March of this year. They confirmed that the account wasin credit to the tune of £900. The person I spoke to at this time confirmedthey would cancel the DD which should have been cancelled some time ago and setin motion the repayment.

A pro forma ‘refund request’was received from the landlord. The details of the amounts were alreadycompleted by the landlord. The only details required to be completed by myMother were her bank details. A credit to my Mothers bank account was duly madeand the matter closed, or so we thought.

I have copies of theoriginal letter to landlord setting out the above enquiries made and a copy ofthe pro forma ‘rent refund request’.

2 points now spring tomind-I would have thought that if tenant was requesting rent rebate, thatlandlord account section would have at least clarified that the situation wasas described. It maybe that if they had bothered to check the full rent accountthat they may have at that stage (March 2014) realized that something was amisswith regard to the rent free weeks being paid. However, that was not the case.

Secondly, if the landlordis saying that those rent free weeks paid by HB had mistakenly been included inthe above rent rebate (this again being an error on the landlords behalf), thenI would have expected at least the landlord to send a letter, apologizing forany confusion when the above rent rebate was made back in March, explaining thatwithin the amount of the rent rebate was in fact those rent free weeks. The amountthat ‘you’ (my Mother) should have received was £400 and not £900. I apologisefor any confusion caused!

But No, they just senta demand for those monies they deem payable by my Mother to be paid within 3 days or further action will follow!

[estellyn]

Yes I agree, this has been very poor management of the issue by the landlord, and you have every right to be aggrieved on your mother's behalf.

 

seek advice from someone with more housing knowledge than me (my area is benefits) to see if there is anything you can do. My instinct is that it will the landlord's discretion. You may want to try a strongly worded complaint to the management to see if that gets you anywhere, asking for the arrears to be written off due to their error - it won't hurt.

[francis1306]

Estellyn, Believe me, when I found out yesterday evening that my Mother had received such letter from the landlord head office demanding payment within 3 days, I shot off an email telling them exactly what I thought of their letter and how they had handled the matter.

 

I will be a be sending a further email explaining the fact that we were told my Mother rent was in credit to the tune of £900 back in March this year. The letter we sent sets out how the initial enquiry came about resulting in an overpayment/credit in their (landlord) favour to the tune of £900. I will also be pointing out that surely, whichever member of staff was dealing this aspect back in March, would have double checked the facts and if my Mother was not entitled to the full £900 then they should have realised at that time and may also have realised that those rent free weeks were being paid when in fact they shouldn't, resulting in a payment back to my Mother in the sum of £400, not £900.

 

I have the copy 'refund request' sent from the landlord, and copy letter from me setting out every single aspect.

 

So, how is a 'reasonable' person, based on all of the above facts, able to be held liable for a cock up, caused either by HB or the landlord, and still say that the tenant is liable? Absolutely beyond me.

 

Many thanks for your comments, estellyn. Helps when there is somebody else who can grasp the situation.

 

Too many people believe that those working in government departments are infallible and never make mistakes, yet it is them who are never wrong and expect others to pay for such. Certainly 1 MP come to bloody mind!!!

[francis1306]

Just want to add upto date situation regarding this.

 

Am sure I mentioned the 1st letter that landlord had sent 'demanding account arrears paid within 3 days or contact our office'. As you know, contact was indeed made on my Mothers behalf. However, after further speaking with landlord, they agreed not to send any further distressing correspondence until matter finally resolved (at least with HB anyway). What happens after weekend...my Mother calls me to tell me she had received a 2nd letter, same tone and content as 1st, but letting my Mother know that they will issue possession proceedings!

 

Don't think I need to tell you how this made our blood boil. Further distress, stress , worry caused, not to mention more time and money. Further contact with landlord who explained that they had requested that this letter be pulled and that a hold had been put onto my Mothers account, until other investigations made. Cannot describe how this inept, bungling social landlord has been able to continue running their practice in such a ........words fail me ....way.

 

Really would be able to get to know the additional tenants, who I take it are/have been treated in a similar fashion, in order to get altogether and commence some type of group/class action.

 

In any event, will attempt to keep my temper and post any further news/outcome.