mortgage lender charging me £38.00 each late - now repo on arrears

[Outacash]

Hi

- I haven't visited these forums in a long time, so I'm a little out of date with information on lender charges.

 

My mortgage lender has been charging me £38.00 on each occasion we have been late making our monthly mortgage payment.

 

It is an automated letter and automated charge as far as I can tell.

 

We have had some recent employment and consequent financial difficulties for a little while,

and this has led (naturally) to some late payments, and then charges being made.

 

I thought charges should represent the amount of work incurred by the lender .

.. but clearly the amount of work involved in detecting and applying the charge is ZERO, as it all happens automatically.

 

My mortgage lender thinks differently, and says the charges represent the work they have to do in dealing with such a situation,

and that they are part of our terms and conditions that we have agreed to, so we simply have to pay up.

 

Can anyone who has had this problem give me some pointers as to how to deal with this situation?

 

Any replies greatly appreciated.

[havinastella]

Ask for a breakdown of costs!

 

Just because the T&C's say you must pay £38, this doesn't mean they are fair.

 

See what they come back with.

[Outacash]

Hi Havinastella - many thanks for your prompt reply. I had a slight technical problem earlier ... seems ok for me to respond now...

 

I have had a few jousts with my lender already about this, and they simply refuse to properly clarify how their charge is made up ... vaguely saying it is due because of their costs in dealing with the account because of the late payment.....and that they cannot reveal actual costing figures because they are commercially sensitive.

 

I am now referred to the Financial Ombudsman Service should I disagree with their final decision on this matter .... but having had dealings with the FOS before, and on comments all over this site, I cannot see that going there is going to be any help at all.

 

My thoughts are with your comment ... that just because the T&C's say so, and that I have "agreed" to them, doesn't mean they are actually fair ...

 

I'm still trawling through info on this site....but a quick pointer to the best way to now respond would be extremely helpful ...

 

Later today now I think ... way past my bedtime now ....

 

Back later .... many thanks again...

[dx100uk]

simple ans is no they cant!!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?296108-Hot-news-for-anyone-who-has-suffered-mortgage-arrears-charges-irresponsible-lending-or-other-unfair-lender-conduct

[renegadeimp]

Which lender?. Sounds like a sub prime one.

[Outacash]

Hi guys, and thanks for your responses.

 

Yes it is a subprime lender ..

. but I remember reading some time ago about being careful not to allow your identity to be revealed to snooping lenders/organisations .

.. so I'll pass on identifying them here.

 

I can't see that knowing who they are would make any difference regarding how to take action against them ..

. surely the process is the same whoever the lender is?

 

dx100uk

 

.... your link to "lender conduct" takes me to bankfodder's post in February 2011,

and subsequent links to the FSA page where I am told the FSA do not exist anymore

(now being the FCA and Prudential Regulation Authority).

 

There is some very interesting reading on DB Mortgages and compensation to their customers

who were unfairly treated due to irresponsible lending practices .

... but this info is now a few years old.

 

Is it still current? Do we have some more recent examples or ongoing cases?

 

I'll be back again in a while ... any links or pointers to recent action on this type of matter would be great ....

 

Many thanks again...

[BankFodder]

There is no reason not to post up the identity of the lender. In fact doing so would probably help you because you will then find that others who are with the same lender will post their similar experiences.

 

If they are not identified, then that will enable them to continue their practices without any public criticism.

 

Please follow the link at mortgage and read up about excessive charging and about MCOBS

[Outacash]

Many thanks for your response Bankfodder .... the lender is PLATFORM FUNDING.

 

I'll take a look at the links you suggest and post again later if I need to, and when I make some progress.

 

Meantime, any other comments or suggestions would be more than welcome folks...

[Outacash]

Ok - next stage ....

 

We have had papers served on us and our lender is taking us to court for possession due to arrears on our mortgage payments .... for which they have been charging us the late payment fee each month, and some other occasions for doorstep visit (uninvited and not wanted) and related solicitors charges. I have all of these charges listed on a CAG simple spreadsheet.

 

On the court reply papers I said yes to the question asking if we would like to court to consider the fairness of our contract, and in our explanation of circumstances I mentioned the "late payment fee" and that I felt it was unfair.

 

Have I done the right thing so far?

 

Should I also follow up now with a claim against the lender for the unfair charges ... in the interim before the court hearing? Or do I just take the details to Court?

 

There is a possibility that we will be able to get hands on enough money before the lender can get the claim to court (hopefully) ... which will nullify the claim that we owe arrears ... but I would then have the unfair charges situation to rectify.

 

So I suppose its a question of timing really wrt the unfair charges.

 

Finding this whole business quite scary really ... and moving so fast I don't feel I have enough time to gather enough information on how to handle it all as the court case is not far away....

 

Does anyone have any experience of similar .... or alternatively, give me your gut feeling on whether or not to make the (counter) claim for the unfair charges.

 

Many thanks in advance...

[f16]

Outacash,

 

I read the thread yesterday, but I've just noticed your last post.

 

The most important thing is to stop the repossession.

 

I think your thread should be moved to Home Repossessions

because you say "the Court Case is not far away"

 

I will let Site Team know

F16

[Outacash]

Hi F16 ... many thanks for that .... I agree, the repossession is priority now. I can look to recovery of charges later.

 

Many thanks in advance to anyone willing to contribute here....

[f16]

Outacash,

 

Can you give some details .

 

When is the Court date ?

How much are the arrears ?

What forms you have had from the Court etc. ?

 

The more info. the better.

 

Then the "Legal Crew" can get you "moving" in the right direction.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, you say you have ticked a box on the court form? does this mean you have returned your N11M defence form already? did you write a statement at Question 27 of the form?

[Outacash]

Hi F16 and Ell-enn - sorry for the late response, we have been going through a couple of other traumas that have needed attention.

 

The court date is 26th August. we have arrears of around £2400.00, which is about 4 months-worth.

 

We sent in the defence form on the 14 day deadline, and provided a statement as to how we felt the arrears had been caused to accrue, along with our income/expenditure profile that now shows we can actually afford the mortgage repayments, and a little off the arrears.

 

On looking over correspondences with our lender it is clear that they have been obstructive in the negotiation process when trying to come to some arrangement with them. I was thinking of pointing these out in a letter which I may use in Court to try to reinforce our case ... if we get to go there. Would that be the right thing?

 

Hoping someone can give a little more guidance or clarification ....

 

Thanks again ....

[f16]

Outacash,

 

I don't do the "Legal bit". Just wanted to get you and yours in the right direction.

 

Ell-enn has got you "under her wing" now.

Follow instructions. ..... You will be fine.

Good Luck. ... I'm watching and wishing you the best.

[Outacash]

F16 .... what can I say ... many thanks for your input, it is really appreciated!

 

We still have a little while to go ... so hopefully we can get things onto an even keel again and keep the house...

 

Best regards.

[f16]

F16 .... what can I say ... many thanks for your input, it is really appreciated!

 

We still have a little while to go ... so hopefully we can get things onto an even keel again and keep the house...

 

Best regards.

 

You've got the best "Wing man / woman" CAG have to offer (IMHO). .... Comes with reading loads late at night !!

 

Your on the "Home run" now. .... You'ill be fine.

Regards.

 

EDIT: No disrespect to other CAGGERS

[Ell-enn]

Hi Outacash - did you quote the Norgan case law in your statement ?

[Outacash]

Hi Ell-enn - No I didn't .... I'm sorry to say I'm not familiar with that case .... I should perhaps have got to these forums before I had responded, but I thought that the reply box was so small it couldn't possibly require a complex response. Having said that, I wrote a letter outlining my circumstances and attached that to the reply papers. Do you think the Court would be happy to accept another submission by way of additional information in support of my case?

 

Ahhh - I see I do know the case ... about repaying over the whole of the remaining mortgage period?

 

Please let me know your thoughts now .... (or PM me if you like?)

Edited August 14, 2014 by Outacash
Additional note added

[Ell-enn]

Hi, it's a shame you didn't read these forums before sending back the defence forms - we could have directed you to our repossession guide here, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?325527-CAG-guide-Are-you-facing-eviction-or-repossession which has examples of how to set out a statement and the case law to quote. However we are where we are, and you can always submit an additional statement if you have anything else to report to the judge.

[Outacash]

Hi Ell-enn .... yep, we are playing catch up I think now ... it has all happened so quickly whilst dealing with employment and health issues as well as being short of cash. I think we could do another statement for the Court based on the advice in the repossession guide ... although I think I was quite close to the format when I put in my first statement. May be useful to be a bit more precise and quote case law, and give a better explanation about the facts and how we will propose to resolve things ... what do you think? We still have almost a couple of weeks to go to the hearing date, so could do this in good time.

 

Some of the letters sent by our lender just haven't given us time to respond before the next action has been initiated, and add to this confusing discussions where other expectations have been implied, but not occurred ... it seems to me that they have really pushed hard to get this into court. We have provided the information they have asked for, before action has been initiated, but they have disregarded it and refused to come to an arrangement which could have avoided action and addressed the arrears! Grrrrrrr....

 

Anyway ... I'll have a closer look around the site and also at the link you give me above .... Please let me know if you have any other thoughts on the matter....

 

Speak again later ..... and many thanks again!!

[Outacash]

Thanks for the guide Ell-enn .... I've downloaded it and will come back once I have had a read. Couple of other things come to mind that may be answered by the guide...or maybe I'll ask you again here if not.

 

Many thanks again...

[Outacash]

Hi again Ell-enn. Read the document as recommended ... and reasonably happy that we have given a decent explanation of our circumstances leading up to arrears difficulty, and what our current position is, along with financial statement that shows we can afford normal mortgage repayments, with a little spare, and with notice of an anticipated cash sum that we hope will pay off the arrears in full very soon.

 

I have also just noticed that there is an error on the Particulars of Claim submitted to the Court, and that as a "statement of facts" regarding our personal details, it is not therefore factually correct. Do I notify the Court, or the lender, or do I say nothing until the hearing date?

 

We may also have an opportunity to change employment in the very near future (on the anticipation of success at interview .... very likely) ... and this will give an amazing lift to our income level, and subsequent ability to pay off arrears (even if delay happens on receiving the lump sum) ... and thereafter maintaining normal mortgage payments. We should know about job situation early next week. Do I tell the Court about this?

 

If I am going to write to the Court, would I also mention the Norgan case etc, along with our anticipated financial position ... and of course the error in the "statement of facts"?

 

Hope you have time to reply again soon...

 

Sincerest regards .... and many thanks again ...

[Outacash]

PS ... any others reading please feel free to comment too of course... Thanks...

[Outacash]

OK - just another update / questions ... hoping Ell-enn or someone else might be able to comment back soon??

 

Hope you have had time to read the above recent posts .... I'm thinking I should write again to the Court and give a revised outline and proposals for settlement... Please have a look through the following points that are of concern, and may need to be included ...

 

1. Error found on claimant's Particulars of Claim submitted to the Court, regarding our employment status. They have said one of us is "self-employed" (incorrect / untrue) ... Could we argue that it is unfair to submit incorrect information and then sign to say it is a "statement of fact"?

2. Confusing and badly timed letters from mortgage provider have not been giving us time to respond before action has been taken ... should this be highlighted?

3. Current financial profile submitted to lender shows we can afford to pay, but lender has not given us their interpretation of this and instead initiated action...is this fair?

4. BRILL NEWS.....Just been offered a new employment position today that doubles our income level, and due to start job next week - should I notify the Court about this now or wait to hearing date? (It will cause a shortfall of income for a short period of time until regular salary comes in again)

5. If an anticipated lump sum does not arrive in time to pay off arrears before hearing date, and we still go to court (just over a week to go), would it be best to mention the Norgen case etc now and explain that although we expect arrears will be paid off very quickly, would/could consideration be given to possible repayment over the whole remaining period of mortgage if necessary?

 

Does all of that make sense? .... starting to get a bit concerned about the relatively short time left, and the issues above that seem to make the lenders approach so unfair.

 

Anyone care to enlighten me or give me a bit of direction on these points?

 

Many thanks again in anticipation of your support...