Community Work Program

[nexxusone]

now been referred to the 6 months placement Community Work Program, which is no problem, i have asked 2 job center advisers questions that they seem unwilling or unable to answer....

some background on me 44 years old male, suffer hayfever, high blood-pressure and 2x bad knees, I have also have worked 2 full time jobs in last 2 years that either ended due to being fixed length contract or injury. I have 4 children, 2 are Autistic (1 at home full time, 1 stays friday till sunday)

 

i go for the 'provider' sign up monday... (Seetec)

 

As it's a community work program for the benefit of community I shouldn't be taking a job that someone can be employed for?or makes profit for company and i will be working 30 hrs a week for no pay, just getting jobseekers, I assume i'm entitled to holidays just like anybody else who works over 16hrs a week? if not how can my lunch be un paid? I must surely being included in my attendance time.

 

if i'm not classed as an employee and or don't get a contract of employment, will I be covered by insurance in case of a accident, if doing a job, rather than being member of public? also if im not an employee, what am i classed as? a trainee? observer? also i wont be subject to any of the disciplinary procedures ( which means they could use to there advantage)

 

Basically my JSA advisor tried to bully me by classing me as a 'troublemaker' when i stood up to him, Due to the fact i asked about attending hospital appointments on Aug 6th and Aug 19th with my Autistic child, He said He could not see how having a autistic child should effect my ability of getting a job, and the CWP comes before looking after them.

Edited July 26, 2014 by nexxusone

[Lapsed Workaholic]

The Guidance in this link will give some idea of what CWP providers are expected to know, ensure, carry out and explain to claimants when referring them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/314475/community-work-placements-provider-guidance.pdf

[dyfed]

Hey Nexx hope all goes well for you. I too have an autistic teenager but Im lucky because I have a serious heart condition and am, at the moment at least, in the support group.

Get this, several times a day I suffer with very fast life threatning heart rythems where I feel like I am going to pass out or indeed I do pass out and my implantable cardio defeib gets ready to shock my heart back into the correct rythem. Also heart is enlarged and working at half as what it should. Throw some mental health problems in there too and get this, I actually feel lucky. Lucky for being in the support group. Lucky? This government and its policies make me feel lucky that I could drop down dead any minute. How sad is that?

 

Anyway Nexx, like I said, I hope it goes well for you mate and please please please keep us updated. Maybe start your own diary thread on CAG.

[Mr.P]

As it's a community work program for the benefit of community I shouldn't be taking a job that someone can be employed for?or makes profit for company and i will be working 30 hrs a week for no pay, just getting jobseekers, I assume i'm entitled to holidays just like anybody else who works over 16hrs a week? if not how can my lunch be un paid? I must surely being included in my attendance time.

 

"You are unemployed, every day is a holiday, so you don't need any more." - Not my opinion, but quite likely a line that will get rammed down your throat at some stage. One would expect to have public holidays off at a minimum, and if you wanted additional breaks, the DWP have a "holiday" form that can be used.

 

Contrary to what the JCP have told you, child care responsibilities, including taking them to hospital, takes priority over any "back to work" scheme - I take it your claimant commitment or Job Seeker's Agreement has restrictions on hours to allow time to provide care for your children - If not, you really do need to get it renegotiated.

 

Keep a detailed record of all hours engaged in this Community Work Placement and get it signed off by a manager - Tell him/her that it is to cover your back in case Seetec try to raise a sanction for non-attendance. Also keep record of any expenses paid (again, signed off by a manager).... Should you feel that at any time you are regarded as a worker, you have the evidence to support a claim to back dated pay. Shelf stacking in Poundland is not of benefit to the community and time spent doing that type of work should attract at a minimum, £6.31 per hour (less tax & N.I.). If it were myself being press-ganged in to such a scheme, I'd be considering a claim through the small claims court against the "employer" and Seetec jointly (but then I'm a cantankerous old bugger at times ).

[nexxusone]

Well im now off to my meeting wish me luck lol!, reading the guide about cwp looks like i will have to use holiday to cover daughters hospital appointments, but i will ask anyway.

[dyfed]

Hi Nexx, how did the meeting go? Did you manage to secure time needed to take your daughter to hospital?

[Jmulv]

MY thought exactly,

 

I've been working 35 hours a week in a RSPCA charity shop. Then I hear they laid off all their paid shop floor staff a while back and now it seems to me they are just using JSA claimants now to staff their job entirely... there are no paid shop staff at all left.

[Mr.P]

having skimmed through the CWP guidance LW posted a link to, there is a glaring omission regarding placements "for the benefit to the community". If one reads the WP guidance, the DWP are insistent that MWA placements do not displace paid employees. But as this passage is missing from the CWP guidance, we have to look at the generic guidance issued by the DWP. pg-chapter-2.pdf, page 24, para 111:

 

Before arranging work experience or other periods of attachment to an employer you must be sure there is a genuine reason why the employer wants to offer participants the opportunity to work with them. The placement must also be genuinely additional e.g. the participant must not fulfil a role which would otherwise be advertised as vacant.

The way I read that, if a position had been previously filled by a paid employee, then it should not be forced upon a mandated CWP/MWA participant.

[dyfed]

having skimmed through the CWP guidance LW posted a link to, there is a glaring omission regarding placements "for the benefit to the community". If one reads the WP guidance, the DWP are insistent that MWA placements do not displace paid employees. But as this passage is missing from the CWP guidance, we have to look at the generic guidance issued by the DWP. pg-chapter-2.pdf, page 24, para 111:

 

The way I read that, if a position had been previously filled by a paid employee, then it should not be forced upon a mandated CWP/MWA participant.

 

It could also be argued that a mandated CWP/MWA participant may take the place of a future paid employee. If they have one or more working for nothing and carrying out the work that could require taking on extra paid staff then why would an employer advertise the job and sack the mandated CWP/MWA victim?

[Mr.P]

Publicity - Contact the local press, stand outside the offending office waving placards, post on Facebook/Twitter - Get the news out that the unemployed are being taken advantage of. If the displaced staff had been part of a union, contact the union rep and stir up trouble there.

[Alfie29]

The way some of the jobcentre people treat people is DISGUISING!!! I don't get treated very at my jobcentre and dread EVERY 4night I go there but I'm ready to stick up for myself for what ever comes my way!

 

I think u should complain about the bully adviser, all of us on jobseekers need too!

[Madamfluff]

MY thought exactly,

 

I've been working 35 hours a week in a RSPCA charity shop. Then I hear they laid off all their paid shop floor staff a while back and now it seems to me they are just using JSA claimants now to staff their job entirely... there are no paid shop staff at all left.

 

 

When I volunteered at my local RSPCA in 2010 they had no paid staff at all only an area manager, when I volunteered again in 2013 it was the same scenario, they did however have 'super volunteers' who had responsibility for opening up and closing, ( I was one) the only thing I couldn't do because of insurance was take the cash to the bank, the paid area manager did that.

 

 

So its not unusual for an RSPCA shop to have no paid staff and may be nothing to do with mandated JSA claimants at all , only their culture, however I doubt that the only 'volunteers' or unpaid staff are mandated JSA claimants, it would be folly to rely solely on mandated JSA people who only work for 30 or so days and may have no interest in raising money for the charity in the same way as someone volunteering (like me) who believed in the charity.

 

 

BTW the RSPCA shop I volunteered in had JSA claimants ( I was one at the time) but no mandated JSA claimants

[caledfwlch]

OP if you want to get out of it you could ask both the shop manager and the contractor who sent you on the placement whether their employee insurance would cover them should your bad legs get worse (standing in shop all day it could happen) as if they do get worse you will have no choice but to assume its the job. And thus WILL sue either or both for compensation both for injury and for sending you to a placement that would clearly potentially make them worse!

 

It might lead them to cancelling the placement and make another one much harder.

 

Make great hay that you love the job and don't want to leave but if further injury happens then its not you who will be out of pocket as such

[bcham]

i am awaiting a telephone interview from interseve, tomorrow, although im nearly 60 and partially death ,my adviser asked them to send me an appointment letter, so i could speak face to face as im no good on the phone , but they sent me a telephone interview anyway.

any one know what sort of placement i will be on. my adviser also told them i did not want to work in a charity shop.i have to do 30 hours a week so it says on the letter,even though im applying for part time jobs.

[nexxusone]

Well as SeeTec are worse than useless, i bypassed them and booked a days unpaid holiday via job center , jcp staff even made me fill out front of form that they are supposed to fill in... back to SeeTec ... a week later i attend my 1st mandatory 4hr job search, wow what an eye opener.

 

upon arrival I stated that's its my 1st time doing this what do i do? - shocked to say this is the only instruction i got for the next 4hrs "use the job search area" and pointed to it by the receptionist - yes the receptionist.

 

So I asked the guys for password and what to do or rather what was required and set about doing the job search on a win xp based pc - how painfully slow, 15 job applications later (which i photo copied for safe keeping) and 4 c.v updates ( 1 paper, 3 electronic on job sites) I had to fill stapler myself as no one had bothered and the photocopier - maybe small points but some not so tech savvy clients it might be a stumbling block.

 

So by 11am i had done everything including writing out my 2 week job search again onto nice sheets rather than the jcp booklet, for the next hour i faked it lol.

 

I also listened in to a rather loud mouthed center manager (2 desks over) who spent approx 2 hrs belittling clients he was about to sanction, he would phone i guess regional manager and clients, then lead the question by stating i'm going to sanction xxx for this xxx reason, do you agree? this would NOT be a problem but this was case for all, never once did he ask if they had a valid reason not to be there.

 

The best thing was a Seetec advisor was off ill since friday and had phoned in sick friday and monday but because this manager could not contact her (he'd phoned 6 times on mobile that morning) and a colleague said she had talked about quitting, he was telling regional manager he guessed she'd handed notice in.!!

 

anyway im sure next week will be fun! as always ears and eyes open for more titbits.

[Mr.P]

IF you hear this "manager" stating that he "will sanction xxx", make a note of xxx's name along with date, time, and any other relevant information. When the time comes, lodge a formal complaint with the DWP (via your MP if needs be) that client confidentiality is being routinely breached. Add some of the personal information noted, and when the $h1t hits the fan (which it will do), sit back and enjoy the fireworks

 

Oh, and a minion acting as a manager within Seetec (or any other DWP subcontractor) can not impose sanctions. All they can do is raise a "claimant benefit doubt" and leave the decision to impose a sanction to a DWP Decision Maker.

[caledfwlch]

I don't think this manager is just "breaching confidentiality" which his own manager would just rap knuckles for (if even that as its clearly a standard working practice for this contractor)

 

I suggest this could very well class as breaching data protection, a more serious offence as it then is not a dwp/seetec whitewash issue but potentially investigatable and finable by the Information Commissioner.

 

Having experienced these contractors myself I don't understand how the total lack of a private space for meetings with advisors is lawful etc anyway my experience of various jobcentres is meetings are a lot more private and a confidential space is available if you need it. When I was last on jsa I always felt my sign on meetings were "private" as a loud busy office and so on helps. As ESA WRAG however, my visits to working links have no privacy and anyone in the room can hear with ease my meetings and health issues. The only good thing is that unlike the poor sods on jsa I am mostly left alone as they cannot compell me to do anything though they did lobby hard for me to "volunteer" somewhere,or go on a voluntary work trial which soon stopped when I asked if it was them, working links or the employer if my health was damaged or made any worse by the placement that I would sue for compensation (and made it clear I WOULD be doing so if such happened)

 

IF you hear this "manager" stating that he "will sanction xxx", make a note of xxx's name along with date, time, and any other relevant information. When the time comes, lodge a formal complaint with the DWP (via your MP if needs be) that client confidentiality is being routinely breached. Add some of the personal information noted, and when the $h1t hits the fan (which it will do), sit back and enjoy the fireworks

 

Oh, and a minion acting as a manager within Seetec (or any other DWP subcontractor) can not impose sanctions. All they can do is raise a "claimant benefit doubt" and leave the decision to impose a sanction to a DWP Decision Maker.

[nexxusone]

Well today was just same boring tedious work search, which i completed easily with lots of time to spare, place was not so busy and i leave at 1pm finished no return... so at 12.55 i goto ask for my travel expenses to be told 'i have 5 mins job search left'!! so i ask do i really have to claim my travel expenses in my OWN time? just to be told go back to job search area now.... so i do and pick up phone, dial speaking clock and set my watch . 12.59:45 seconds i walk over and pick up sign out form and sign myself out. I then ask for my travel expenses quite nicely to be told it's still 2 mins to go... so i say 'i set my watch using your phone to phone speaking clock, so your clock is wrong... could i PLEASE have my expenses as im now wasting MY time.' the center manager is now standing there arms folded, watching what's going on and nods ok to girl to proceed.

she's quite flusted and gives me 20p too much, so i hand it back saying 'wouldn't want you getting in trouble at end of day for a shortage!' i think next week will be interesting

[essexmat]

..."to be told 'i have 5 mins job search left'!!"

 

Next time this happens say (out loud) "Sorry, I need to have a sh*t before I do it in my pants, is that OK?"

[nexxusone]

the idiots at cwp [edited] strike again.... just been sent another mandate stating its supersedes all others and my next appointment is 29th OCT 2014 .. great a few weeks off i think.. so ring to check and i'm still booked for tomorrow, so i point out this new mandate cancels old one and they say no so i tell them verbal instruction not good enough and i need a new mandate to tell me attend @ 9.00am tomorrow (my post dont come till 10am!!) so will be fun

Edited August 19, 2014 by honeybee13

[Mr.P]

(Does one need to use both "[edited]" and "Seetec" in the same sentence ???).... Sending out a MAN on a Tuesday for an appointment on the Wednesday, even if posted first class, fails the "in good time" test. DWP guidance suggests a weeks notice is given and repeatedly states that it is assumed a letter is delivered by the second working day - What the guidance does not state is this two day assumption only applies if first class post is used.

Edited August 19, 2014 by honeybee13

[nexxusone]

I told them that they are in wrong. And im going in just to tell them that. I can see them having a formal complaint by end of tomorrow

[Chester6]

I am disgusted a jobcentre one thinks your family should be below cWP in your priorities

[Lapsed Workaholic]

the idiots at cwp [edited] strike again.... just been sent another mandate stating its supersedes all others and my next appointment is 29th OCT 2014 .. great a few weeks off i think.. so ring to check and i'm still booked for tomorrow, so i point out this new mandate cancels old one and they say no so i tell them verbal instruction not good enough and i need a new mandate to tell me attend @ 9.00am tomorrow (my post dont come till 10am!!) so will be fun

 

 

 

You are right in your belief that all mandated activity has to be notified to you in writing. You got a written mandatory notification informing you clearly that it superseded all others. I can't understand why you should feel compelled to ask for that notification to be clarified or confirmed to you verbally over the phone.

 

 

The rules work both ways. It would be difficult to prey in aid the rule that mandatory notification must be in writing and at the same time phone them up and question it, giving them an opportunity to alter it, then dispute the clarification/alteration that you asked for.

[nexxusone]

You are right in your belief that all mandated activity has to be notified to you in writing. You got a written mandatory notification informing you clearly that it superseded all others. I can't understand why you should feel compelled to ask for that notification to be clarified or confirmed to you verbally over the phone.

 

Simply because i would have been sanctioned today wrongly, and they would have put a hold on money paid this friday (as bank holiday) and i doubt i would have been able to get a resolution before next tuesday, I have 2 Autistic children and no back up savings, so no money is not an option i can afford.

 

they sanctioned a bloke today for not turning up yesterday at 9am but he didn't receive a letter until 11am post on day of appointment.... i directed him to the 'in time' guidance and that he must ask for a reconsideration and he has a limited time to do this.

 

today Seetec performance was a complete farce as half of room was in darkness due to overloaded electrics that tripped out. So we couldn't use some computers due to 'health & safety' but the poor seetec employees could!! Also we had to walk through dark area to toilets and 1 of the fire exits.... (you couldn't make it up) the other fire exit and entrance is electronically locked to stop people leaving, controlled by a button at desk. It;s time for a letter with copies to regional manager , dwp and local mp's.

the best thing is they have 67 people in for 4 weeks every day full time and only (at moment) 40 seats / pc's inc the employees --- implosion time is coming

Edited August 20, 2014 by nexxusone
name and shame poor service as im the client and Seetec are susposed to be working 4 me...