Restons/Arrow Global/Egg Loan 'debt' - defence deadline looming - help!!

[rebeccalouisa]

First post so apologies if this is covering issues that others have talked about but I am going round in circles on this one.

 

My husband had an Egg loan back in 2005.

 

He went into a Debt Repayment Plan with Spectrum in 2006 and was paying £1 a month and stopped paying that in 2010.

 

He has received a claim form from Restons Solicitors acting for Arrow Global Ltd and

 

the issue date is 27th May 2014.

 

He's never received anything from Restons or Arrow confirming that the debt had been assigned to Arrow.

 

The Particulars of Claim are very brief:

 

"The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract dated on or about 15/08/2005 in the sum of £3xxx.xx

 

PARTICULARS a/c o: 1xxxxxxx

 

DATE ITEM VALUE

10/07/2013 Default balance 3xxx.xx

Post Refrl Cr NIL

 

TOTAL: 3xxx.xx"

 

My initial thoughts were that there was no mention of the fact that it was an Egg loan and no mention of an assignment to them.

Also, shouldn't the Particulars be 'clear and concise'???? They certainly are not.

 

I filed an acknowledgement of service online on 4th June.

 

I sent a CPR 31.14 request on 4th June requesting the contract and also requested a default notice, assignment and formal demand.

 

Letter in today from Restons dated 13th June.

 

They've sent the Loan Agreement under CCA 1974 and it's dated 8th August 2005 and signed by him on 13th August 2005.

 

They've also sent us two annual Egg loan statements and shows that the last payment of £1 was made in May 2010.

 

They have rejected my request for the other documents as they are not 'mentioned' in their Particulars.

The account number they have quoted in the Particulars is Arrow's reference for my husband,

the one on the agreement is completely different.

 

Obviously I need to file his defence asap.

 

I wanted to go down the statute-barred route but cannot as the last payment was received in May 2010.

 

Incidentally, the Egg loan came off my husband's credit file in May as it had been 6 years since he had defaulted.

 

Can I submit that the loan has not been properly assigned to Arrow and/or he's received no notice of this?

 

Also can I get them on the fact that they are solicitors and their Particulars are very poor and therefore he cannot properly defend himself?

 

Any help muchly appreciated

[Guest]

hi

 

your thread is prob best moved to the legal sub forum

 

you've done the right thing re the cpr request, the partics are poor and you requested further info. can take things from there. they wld still need to show assignment. and a compliant default notice (if was applicable), even though not mentioned. your defence can address that.

afaik. a default wld drop off after 6, even if subsequent payments.

any missold ppi?

[citizenB]

Ouch, 27th May issue date.. you havent left yourself much time.....

 

Your timeline is as follows.

 

Issue date 27.05.2014 + 5 days for service = 31.05.2014 + 14 days to acknowledge = 14.06.2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 28.06.2014.

 

If there PoC was any briefer, it would be non existent.

 

The only document you were really able to request by CPR 31.14 was the agreement, as they dont mention anything else.

 

You could send a CPR part 18 request for information, but you dont have very much time.. Anyway, I have drafted one for you - get it out as soon as you can and at the very least send by Recorded delivery - if you can afford Special Delivery, that would be my choice. You should send it to the Solicitor acting on behalf of the claimant.

 

Note: This is a request for information only, not documents. Depending on their response you can then request sight of the documents.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]51645[/ATTACH]

 

Your defence at the moment is pretty much challenging their right to bring this claim if you have not been advised of the assignment and of course the lack of particulars in their claim. You are correct that you cannot use the SB route as you were still making payments in 2010. Had you received any other correspondence from the claimant prior to the issuing of the claim ?

[rebeccalouisa]

Thank you for your responses. I will send the CPR 18 letter tomorrow.

 

 

To clarify, this is not statute-barred even though he wasn't making full payments (£1) and he defaulted in 2006 and that it disappeared from his credit file last month?

 

 

He's not received any correspondence from Arrow or Restons. The only thing we have is their letter of 13th June responding to my CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

If we receive no reply or a refusal to the CPR 18 request, how do I address this in in the defence?

 

 

Finally, how do I put this in the legal thread??

 

 

Many thanks!!!

[Ganymede]

Nope not statute barred.

[rebeccalouisa]

I had a thread in the Debt Forum but cannot find it now so I am starting a new one in the Legal forum.

 

The background is my husband at a loan with Egg in 2005 and stopped paying fully in 2007. He went into a debt repayment plan and was paying £1 per month and stopped that in 2010. Last £1 payment made in May 2010.

 

Claim form arrived dated 27th May 2014 from Restons Solicitors on behalf of Arrow Global. He's never received any correspondence from either of them. Particulars are extremely brief:

 

"The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract dated on or about 15/08/2005 in the sum of £3xxx.xx

 

PARTICULARS a/c no: 1xxxxxxxxx

 

DATE ITEM VALUE

10/07/13 Default balance 3xxx.xx

Post Refrl Cr NIL

 

Total:- 3xxx.xx"

 

My issues are this:

 

1. The POC need to be 'clear and concise."

2. There is no definition of Contract and the parties to this Contract

3. It does not state the right of Arrow to bring this claim against my husband i.e. no mention that the debt was assigned to them

4. The loan itself came off his credit file in May this year

5. The reference is not an Egg reference, it is Arrow's reference

 

I made a CPR 31.14 request and they sent me the CCA Agreement dated 8th August 2005 and two statements of accounts. Incidentally, the balance in the Statement of Account is over £100 stated in their POC. I'd also requested a copy of a Default Notice, assignment and formal demand but this was refused as they were not 'mentioned' in their extremely brief POC....

 

I used your template CPR Part 18 letter for further information and this is their response:

 

"As you should be aware, PD 18 (1.2) states:

'A Request should be concise and strictly confined to matters which are reasonably necessary and proportionate to enable the first party to prepare his own case or to understand the case he has to meet.'

 

The list of information you have requested is extensive and we fail to see how this is 'reasonably necessary' or 'proportionate' and how provision of the information will assist you in preparing your case or understanding the case you have to meet.

 

We therefore invite you to provide full details of why you require the information you have asked for and how you expect this to assist you in preparing/understanding the case.

 

Furthermore, in our view your request does not provide a reasonable timeframe for a response to be given.

 

In any event, on a voluntary basis we will state the following:

 

1. We are unable to confirm whether a Default Notice was previously served on you and if so, what information was contained in that notice. However, we can confirm that a Default Notice is only required to be served where a creditor wishes to claim early repayment of a debt. In this case you signed a Credit Agreement on 8th August 2005 and you agreed to repay the amount loaned (together with interest) within 72 months. As you failed to do that, the Claimant was well within its rights to issue proceedings for the full outstanding balance and does not need to rely on a Default Notice. ****IS THIS CORRECT??? I THOUGHT THAT THEY NEEDED TO ISSUE DEFAULT NOTICES WHEN THE BORROWER HAD DEFAULTED. PLEASE COULD SOMEBODY CLARIFY??***

 

2. The account which is the subject of these proceedings was assigned to our Client on 28th February 2013 and a Notice of Assignment would have been served on you in accordance with our Client's standard procedure **NEVER RECEIVED AND THIS DOES NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. PROVE THAT A NOTICE WAS SERVED!!!****

 

I have to file my defence by 28th June. I want to state that the POC are not clear and concise and are ambiguous; they've not provided any evidence that they are entitled to reclaim this money; no default notice had been issued so what is the relevance of the date in the POC; he's received no prior correspondence from Arrow or Restons and the debt is no longer on his credit file. I want to invite the court to strike out the claim. Would this be a sufficient defence and can anybody suggest anything else???

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

threads merged

 

dx

[rebeccalouisa]

Cheers!

[rebeccalouisa]

Can anybody help me with the defence then at all? Thanks

[Guest]

surprising they came back re yr 18 request, as is small claims?

 

re 1 - as was a loan, a def notice may not be applicable (as was mentioned post #2), as they say it has run its loan term.

(if for eg, a cred wanted to call it in re a default prior to its end of term then maybe a def notice wld be required).

when did they first ask for the full amount?

 

re 2- they wld still need to show that they and/or the creditor sent/issued a notice of assignment. creditor logs could prob be enough if it shows on there.

wait for further opinion on the above.

 

they are also supposed to follow pre action conduct re debt matters (contained in the CPR),

so can mention that also as you say they havent been in contact prior.

 

have a read around similar threads and the types of defences used in similar circs, adapt to suit. post up a draft.

[rebeccalouisa]

Ok thanks I will put something together today

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The default notice:

These are not routinely stored as hard copy, the creditor will have logged that a DN was sent and this is all they are required to do.

 

As Ford has said the NOA again they can rely on logged data.

 

It is correct that a DN would not be needed in this scenario.

 

As this was it seems an agreement entered into prior to April 2007

 

AG will need to have a an a original signed agreement,

 

have you been supplied with a copy of one at any point?

 

An "agreement signed on or about XXXxx is mentioned in the POC.

[rebeccalouisa]

They've sent us a copy of the signed agreement. It is dated 8th Auguest 2005 and signed by him on 13th August.

 

can I invite the court to strike the claim out due to the POC not being clear and concise and non-compliance with the pre-action protocols?

[Guest]

could do. but, the specific sanctions for non compliance with pre action conduct doesnt say strike.

and even with their brief partics, it may not be enough for a strike.

 

maybe court will make directions for fuller/amended partics and re pre action compliance. but, you never know.

 

mention things though in yr defence. see similar threads with poor partics, adapt that.

 

they still need to show the assignment, so can mention that also.

 

looks like a no go re a def notice being required,

 

but could still mention it and get them to show that one was not required. but dont expect it to be in issue.

 

is the agreement fully compliant?

 

wait see what others suggest.

[rebeccalouisa]

I'm struggling to find similar threads as the POC in others are much more detailed.

 

 

What is the significance of the agreement being prior to 2007 and how do I know if it is fully compliant? They have sent me a copy but have not confirmed whether or not they have the original

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I'm struggling to find similar threads as the POC in others are much more detailed.

 

 

What is the significance of the agreement being prior to 2007 and how do I know if it is fully compliant? They have sent me a copy but have not confirmed whether or not they have the original

Changes to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 came into force in April agreement made prior to that date were not affected by the changes, so a creditor must be able to produce a properly signed and executed agreement it wishes to attempt to enforce via the court system.

[Guest]

rebecca

re executed, it must contain all of the prescribed terms and signed.

perhaps give citizenb or andyorch an urgent pm nudge to look in re defence, point you in the right direction/thread.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Can you post up a suitably redacted copy of the agreement received please.

[ims21]

Hi Rebecca

 

I have flagged your thread for the legal guys on the Site Team.

 

Hopefully they will be able to pop in a bit later.

[citizenB]

Can you be absolutely certain that it was OH who made the £1.00 payment in 2010 ?

 

Is there any chance at all that this was in respect of the statutory fee for a CCA request ?

 

andyorch will be around either later today or first thing tomorrow - he is the one who will be able to help you put together a defence. A message has been left for him on the site team notice board.

[Guest]

[rebeccalouisa]

Hi sorry I didn't realise anybody had responded.

 

How do I upload a copy of the agreement?

 

I have drafted a defence on the Money Claim portal but haven't submitted it yet.

 

I am reluctant to put it up here in case they realise it's my husband's debt.

 

What do people suggest?

[rebeccalouisa]

The £1 payment in May 2010 was not for a statutory request, the debt management company had been paying £1 a month for 3 years for him

[dx100uk]

yes I can see you got caught up with spectrum

one of the biGGest fleecers out there.

 

please post up all the paperwork you have had back

 

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

or use Primo PDF.

.

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though DONT USE BANK NAMES or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

you can click on your links to check them too!

.

dx