1st Credit Claimform - OHs Halifax OD - want to defend mostly penalty charges

[AndyOrch]

The whole term

[superstarjan]

Just had another thought on this.

 

During mediation and via letter my partner offered £50 which they refused. They sent a letter refusing it, however have never at any point come back with a lower figure from their side. So no negotiation could be done after my partners offer. They mentioned that it would've been preferable to not waste the court time (not in those exact words) but have made out like there is no choice now.

 

Would it be worth sending them a letter, stating that we are disappointed that they refused to mediate and that we are also disappointed that the matter has had to go to court because they refused to negotiate?

[superstarjan]

This is what I've done so far on the withness statement, please can you check it Andyorch, is it enough?

 

1. I, ****** make this statement in response to the Witness Statement of *****, dated ****** and submitted on behalf of the Claimant, 1st Credit Finance Limited. The matters referred to in this statement are within my own knowledge, except where I have indicated otherwise. I am a litigant in person.

 

 

2. I was removed from this account after a breakup in the relationship in 2003 and since that time, it has been in the name of ******* solely.

 

3. I have never received a Default Notice in relation to this account. The one referred to in the witness statement of ****** is not for this account.

 

 

4. A subject access request was sent to HBOS and to 1st Credit Finance on 01.05.2014. This request was not complied with

 

5. There is no benefit to any party in adding me to the account whatsoever.

 

6. Upon reading the statements of account, it is clear to see that there are large amounts of penalty charges which are applied. In the event that I should I be added to the account, I will have no option other than to make a counterclaim for the disproportionate penalty charges on that account.

[AndyOrch]

Bringing forward the claimants WS

 

1. I am the in house solicitor in the employ of the 1st credit limited and i have conduct of this matter on the claimants behalf. i make this statement on behalf of the claimant and i am authorised by it to make this statement and the contents of this statement are true to the best of my knowledge information and belief unless otherwise stated in which case i believe them to be true.

 

2. There is now produced and shown to me in exhibit 'LC1' various copy documents to which I shall refer by page number.

 

3. i make this statement in support of the claimants application to add 'me' as a party to these proceedings pursuant to CPR 19.2(2) (a) and (b).

 

Background

 

4. the claimant is in the business of purchasing consumer debt portfolios. it utilises telephone and letter communication to pursue a claim against the principal account holder on the basis that liability is joint and several.

 

5. The claimants claim is for monies due and owing together with costs and interest arising from a Halifax overdraft facility in respect of account blaa blaa blaa

 

6. A copy of the statements of account dated blaa blaa is attached at pages 1 to 14. The statements show that the account was held in the name of the defendant the new party. At page 12 the balance of that account is the same as the debt.

 

7. On 24.4.10 a default notice was issued by the original creditor. A copy of the default notice entry is at page 15. A copy of the default letter template issued at the time is at pages 16 to 17.

 

Assignment

 

8. On 18.1.13 the original creditor assigned the debt to the claimant. The notice of assignment to the new party dated 4.9.14 is at page 18. An introductory letter of the same date is at pages 19 to 20.

 

9. On 9.9.14 the claimant wrote to the new party confirming the details of the debt and enclosing its supporting documentation (pages 21 to 22). it also enclosed details of the claim which included the wording of the claim form and particulars of claim as submitted electronically to the court for issue because the claim is not sent a copy of the sealed claim form once issued. The new party was put on notice that if she did not respond by 16.9.14 that the claimant intended to make an application to add her as a party to these proceedings. The claimant did not receive a reply from the new party.

 

10. Given the above it is evident that there is an issue involving the new party and the defendant which is connected to the matter in dispute in these proceedings. it is also desirable to add the new party so the the court can resolve that issue and all the matters in dispute.

 

Summary

 

11. In summary i contend that in accordance with CPR 19.2(2) (a) and (b) the claimant requests that the claimant be permitted to serve an amended claim form and particulars of claim on the new with her dtails. i respectully request that the court make an order adding the new party to these proceedings.

[AndyOrch]

You need to expand a little on point 5 as to the real reason they wish to add you......as your better half to submit a WS also?

 

Andy

[superstarjan]

You need to expand a little on point 5 as to the real reason they wish to add you......as your better half to submit a WS also?

 

Andy

 

That's a good question, I was going to ask you if it was me or my partner who needs to send the WS, or both?

 

I can't think of what more to add at number 5, have you got any tips?

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

As the claim is still in one name only as yet... then one WS should suffice.

 

On 5 you need to bring to the courts attention as to why you feel the claimant is wishing you be added as a party...purely to facilitate any advanced options should they successfully attain a judgment by way of a charging order.Explain that the account now operates solely in your hubby's name and that the bank/creditor agreed to remove you as a co party to the agreement.Therefore the alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several.

 

Keep reading their point as to why they wish to add you and destroy it with a response.I personally feel that this is fundamental to your defence.

[superstarjan]

Ok, so I've changed it all into my partners name now and amended para 5:-

 

5. The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact a waste of the Court’s time. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party.

[AndyOrch]

Ok, so I've changed it all into my partners name now and amended para 5:-

 

5. The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact a waste of the Court’s time. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party.

 

Not quite what I had in mind you need to get across to the court the reason they wish to add you and show just how underhand they are acting and what their future intentions are.....that is the purpose of their application to add you and you need to defeat that with the reason why they cant.

[superstarjan]

5. The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact counter productive and waste of the Court’s time as I can evidence that I am no longer connected to this agreement. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party. It is clear that the claimant wishes to add ******** for any future execution reasons. To issue two County Court Judgements rather than one, or to issue a Charging Order in the future. This is considered underhand and viewed as vexatious.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Andyorch
Tweaked

[AndyOrch]

Tweaked...what do you think?

[superstarjan]

that's much better, thanks andy

[superstarjan]

I've also added this to para 3, what do you think?

 

1. I have never received a Default Notice in relation to this account. The one referred to in the witness statement of ***** is not for this account. There is no original Default Notice in the exhibits as is ordered at number 8 on the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing).

[AndyOrch]

Yes now you have got the hang ...post your final draft once you are happy and we can check it over.

[Guest ALEXABIDI]

Re: 1st Credit - CCJ arrived in post - want to defend it because it is mostly penalty charges and interest

 

We just received the documents requested in similar case. The solicitors have given us 7 days before seeking judgment. What has been the outcome of your cases in this thread?

Many thanks. Alex

[dx100uk]

Re: 1st Credit - CCJ arrived in post - want to defend it because it is mostly penalty charges and interest

 

We just received the documents requested in similar case. The solicitors have given us 7 days before seeking judgment. What has been the outcome of your cases in this thread?

Many thanks. Alex

 

 

you need to start a new thread

 

 

of your own

[superstarjan]

This is my final draft of the WS, any help would be greatly received:-

 

1. I, ******* make this statement in response to the Witness Statement of ******* dated ******* and submitted on behalf of the Claimant, 1st Credit Finance Limited. The matters referred to in this statement are within my own knowledge, except where I have indicated otherwise. I am a litigant in person.

 

 

2. ******** was removed from this account after a breakup in the relationship in 2003 and since that time, it has been in the name of ******* solely. If it was still a joint account, then the claim would have been issued in both names from the beginning, avoiding the need of Court action at this time. Both myself and ****** requested that she be removed from the account in writing. ****** opened another account with a different bank at the same time. It served no purpose whatsoever to keep it joint.

 

3. I have never received a Default Notice in relation to this account. The one referred to in the witness statement of ****** is not for this account. There is no original Default Notice in the exhibits as is ordered at number 8 on the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing).

 

 

4. A subject access request was sent to HBOS and to 1st Credit Finance on 01.05.2014. See exhibit 1 & 2. This request was not complied with in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. HBOS and 1st Credit are therefore in breach

 

 

5. The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact counter productive and waste of the Court’s time as ****** is no longer connected to this agreement. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party. It is clear that the claimant wishes to add ****** for any future execution reasons. To issue two county court Judgements rather than one, or to issue a Charging Order in the future. This is considered underhand and viewed as vexatious.

 

6. Upon reading the statements of account, it is clear to see that there are large amounts of penalty charges which are applied. On numerous occasions, a penalty charge took the balance over the limit, which then resulted in another penalty charge being added. I contacted the bank to ask them to close the account as I was under incredible financial strain and as I was self employed. My business was suffering immensely in the financial crisis which had been started by the banks and no fault of my own. At the time, I was not earning enough money to cover my outgoings and also pay these extortionate bank charges. The bank refused to close it and instead added £5 per day in interest. they did this knowing that I was in financial difficulty. Which leaves me to believe they saw an easy way to make money and worsen my situation considerably.

 

 

 

In the event that ******* be added to the account, she will have no option other than to make a counterclaim for the disproportionate penalty charges on that account.

[AndyOrch]

Yes your getting there jan...from their last two points of their WS.....refute them directly and finish your summary including same as theirs with your counter claim should the court allow said application

 

"10. Given the above it is evident that there is an issue involving the new party and the defendant which is connected to the matter in dispute in these proceedings. it is also desirable to add the new party so the the court can resolve that issue and all the matters in dispute.

 

Summary

 

11. In summary i contend that in accordance with CPR 19.2(2) (a) and (b) the claimant requests that the claimant be permitted to serve an amended claim form and particulars of claim on the new with her details. i respectfully request that the court make an order adding the new party to these proceedings."

[superstarjan]

Thanks, I'll get onto that now.

 

Just another thing that I would like to ask you, to clear it up in my head. Is this ws just for the hearing to add me, or for the other two hearings as well? Same goes for their ws, will they be submitting another for the other hearings?

[AndyOrch]

This is just in response to their application for adding of parties...but its advisable to add a little background as they have...you will be expected to submit a further WS to cover the whole of the claim...once this proceeds either with or without you named as co defendant.

[superstarjan]

I've now added to para 5:-

As per number 10 of Lily Chan’s witness statement, there is no issue involving any other party.

The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact counter productive and waste of the Court’s time as ****** is no longer connected to this agreement. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party. It is clear that the claimant wishes to add ****** for any future execution reasons. To issue two county court Judgements rather than one, or to issue a Charging Order in the future. This is considered underhand and viewed as vexatious.

Summary

In summary due to the claimant’s breach of the Subject Access Request and inability to produce a valid Default Notice relating to this account, I respectfully request that the Court does not make an order adding ****** or any other new party to these proceedings.

[AndyOrch]

"Summary

In summary due to the claimant’s breach of the Subject access request and inability to produce a valid Default Notice relating to this account, I respectfully request that the Court does not make an order adding ****** or any other new party to these proceedings."

 

With respect jan the claimants breach of DSAR and Default Notice is nothing to do why you object to being added...you object to being added because you are no longer liable or connected to the agreement as per your 5. I would be summarising as follows.....

 

 

Summary

 

It is therefore requested that the claimant be denied its application pursuant to CPR 19.2(2) (a) and (b) for the aforesaid reasons.The claim is a simple matter that can proceed against the defendant as per the amended agreement as the claim stands now.There is no need for further amended particulars.

 

 

I wouldnt make threats of counter claiming on the pretence of you being added...distance yourself.

[superstarjan]

I can't thank you enough for all your help andy!

 

I've made a few amendments and added your summary, if you think this is good enough, we will be taking it to court tomorrow in time for the hearing

 

1. I, ******** make this statement in response to the Witness Statement of *******, dated ******* and submitted on behalf of the Claimant, 1st Credit Finance Limited. The matters referred to in this statement are within my own knowledge, except where I have indicated otherwise. I am a litigant in person.

 

 

2. ****** was removed from this account after a breakup in the relationship in 2003 and since that time, it has been in the name of ****** solely. If it was still a joint account, then the claim would have been issued in both names from the beginning, avoiding the need of Court action at this time. Both myself and ****** requested that she be removed from the account in writing. ****** opened another account with a different bank at the same time. It served no purpose whatsoever to keep it joint.

 

3. I have never received a Default Notice in relation to this account. The one referred to in the witness statement of ****** is not for this account. There is no original Default Notice in the exhibits as is ordered at number 8 on the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing).

 

 

4. A subject access request was sent to HBOS and to 1st Credit Finance on 01.05.2014. See exhibit 1 & 2. This request was not complied with in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. HBOS and 1st Credit are therefore in breach

 

 

5. As per number 10 of ****** witness statement, there is no issue involving any other party. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that ****** is connected to this matter. The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact counter productive and waste of the Court’s time as ****** is no longer connected to this agreement. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party. It is clear that the claimant wishes to add ****** for any future execution reasons. To issue two county court Judgements rather than one, or to issue a Charging Order in the future. This is considered underhand and viewed as vexatious.

 

6. Upon reading the statements of account, it is clear to see that there are large amounts of penalty charges which are applied. On numerous occasions, a penalty charge took the balance over the limit, which then resulted in another penalty charge being added. I contacted the bank in January 2010 to ask them to close the account and allow me to pay the balance in instalments. I was under incredible financial strain. As I was self-employed, my business was suffering immensely in the financial crisis which had been started by the banks and no fault of my own. I was not earning enough money to cover my outgoings and also pay these extortionate bank charges. The bank refused to close this account until February 2011 during which time, £610.00 had been added onto the account as penalty charges.

 

7. During mediation and by correspondence with the claimant, I was willing to open up negotiations into settling this matter without the need for Court action. The claimant was not willing to negotiate a settlement figure and refused my first offer and proceeded with Court action.

 

 

Summary

 

It is therefore requested that the claimant be denied its application pursuant to CPR 19.2(2) (a) and (b) for the aforesaid reasons. The claim is a simple matter that can proceed against the defendant as per the amended agreement as the claim stands now. There is no need for further amended particulars.

[superstarjan]

Need to get this court in next couple of hours, andyorch are you around to give one last check over?

[Old Cogger]

PM him