East Midlands Trains - Fare Evasion? Prosecution?

[Alphoria]

Hi,

 

I'm looking for some advice on a problem that has affected me. I'll begin from the start.

 

I ordered a Stagecoach Smartcard (part of EMT so i gather) so i could commute to school (I'm 16) by Train.

 

I went to use it as i went to my volunteer position on a Heritage Railway,

I thought it worked like a trentbarton MANGO card, I scanned it on and the scanner bleeped at me

so i thought i'd recieve a bill through the post or something (first time using one).

 

I got on my train and as the Ticket Inspector walked down

i explained what i had done and asked her if it was OK,

she later turned out to be a Revenue Protection Officer for EMT.

She took my card and said that the card was only for season tickets but took it and phoned the card place.

 

She said there was no ticket on the card so i offered to pay for a paper one,

she refused and said it's too late.

 

She then got me off the train at Derby Station (I started at Long Eaton, commuting to Belper)

and took me to the front desk.

 

I asked her if i could use a phone to call my parent and she said she'd check my details

and be a few minutes then i could.

 

I gave her my details and version of events in full.

I got my phone out (with no credit) to get my parent's number out

and she said i couldn't use her phone because i had one, she said that i had a phone

and im trying to waste her time.

 

She even threatened to call the police and my volunteer work and 'see what they thought of it'

in the end she said she'd be reporting it and i'd get a letter in the post to take me to court.

 

I made her fully aware i was 16 and asked her for ID so i could write down her name,

She flashed her name badge (pinned onto her shirt) at me and shouted

'I'm ****** and i'm a REVENUE PROTECTION OFFICER!' (Don't know if i'm allowed to post names).

 

Afterwards when i got to my volunteers position (late) and spoke to two volunteers

(One a Magistrate and one a former Police Officer) and

 

they said what she did was out of order and they probably wouldn't do anything

because of her behaviour (shouting, refusing me access to a phone,

questioning me without a responsible adult, not showing me a badge of authority

or cautioning me and apparently anything i said to her was inadmissible in court).

 

Any advice? I'm still waiting on the letter.

 

Thanks,

Alphoria

Edited April 22, 2014 by Alphoria
Paras.

[rebel11]

Hi Alphoria

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such. Explain what's happened (misunderstanding how card worked), how they have let you down (the Revenue Inspector being rude and unhelpful, tell him what she said, explain that she didn't allow you to explain what happened) and what you want them to do. Run the letter pass your parents.

 

Send it to:-

 

Mr David Horne

Managing Director

East Midlands Trains

[email protected]

[fkofilee]

Hi Alphoria

 

How old are you at the moment? 16?

Well If you are, im not sure if your parents would have to deal with this for you.

 

However Rebel has it right, contact the MD and say exactly what has happened and then go from there. Im pretty sure EMT are a bit better than other operators.

[Alphoria]

I have spoken to the General Manager of the Heritage Railway of which i volunteer and he is confident they won't proceed after he emailed them advising them not to.

 

Thanks for the help anyway.

Well, apart from the person who came in throwing accusations.

 

Otherwise, if you live in Derbyshire enjoy the sun.

 

But once again, Thank you all very much!

[fkofilee]

Oh wonderful , And its fine, your not advertising, I just hope this is now dead in the water

[Old-CodJA]

Please read this in the spirit that it is intended.

 

I doubt that the general manager of a Heritage Railway will have any say in the matter and this also goes for the advice of other volunteers. It will be up to the TOC to decide what, if any action they take, but they may consider any mitigation put to them before coming to their decision.

 

Now I also hope that this isn't pursued further if all happened exactly as you say, but a fare is due and the rail company are entitled to pursue that if they wish to do so. The matter of staff behaviour and any complaint concerning that is an entirely separate issue and should be pursued as such.

 

As you are only 16 a prosecution is extremely unlikely, TOCs do not normally proceed to Youth Courts unless the matter is very serious and this certainly does not fall into that category.

 

If you get a letter from East Midland Trains, come back and let us know what it says.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Old-CodJA
Error in referring to wrong TOC

[fkofilee]

If you get a letter from London Midland, come back and let us know what it says.

 

Didnt know LM and EMT were one and the same ^__^

 

But yes, its very unlikely they will proceed to prosecute.

[Old-CodJA]

My previous post edited to reflect my error in referring to wrong TOC. Thanks to fkofilee for noticing.

 

 

content unchanged otherwise

[fkofilee]

That's okay wasn't a dig by any means :-P

[BazzaS]

My previous post edited to reflect my error in referring to wrong TOC. Thanks to fkofilee for noticing.

 

 

content unchanged otherwise

 

Quite frankly I'm relieved! I've larnt a great deal from OCJ's post, and consider them authoratative, but have always wondered .....

At last, proof that OCJ can in fact make mistakes (albeit minor admin ones!), so proof that they aren't an AI machine, and are human

[Alphoria]

I don't quite know how it works but it seems to have done. I'm now travelling happy with trentbarton rather than East Mids Trains. If i do get a letter i will come back and let you know though!

 

And i'm more than happy to pay the fare or even a £20 penalty fare, I was just really worried about the 'court scare' they gave me.

[Alphoria]

Looks like i've had to come back and grovel and say you may be right. I recieved a letter from their 'Prosecution Dept' yesterday, they have invited me to an appointment on Tuesday, what do i do?

[BazzaS]

Looks like i've had to come back and grovel and say you may be right. I recieved a letter from their 'Prosecution Dept' yesterday, they have invited me to an appointment on Tuesday, what do i do?

 

Your original post notes you told the RP staff member you were 16.

You haven't turned 17 in the interim?

 

Does the letter make any reference to your age, or to having an "appropriate adult" with you?.

 

Do you have a passport or other official document showing your age?

 

The reason I am asking is that if you are still a juvenile, I'd be surprised if they knew that and wanted to interview you without an 'appropriate adult' present.

The interview then certainly couldn't proceed under PACE guidelines.

 

You could consider attending, "dressing down" (school uniform, no make up) and saying : "I've told my parents I'm coming here, they weren't sure if they needed to come with me, as like I told the lady on the train : I'm only 16.

Your letter didn't say anything about bringing my parents, though"

"I made a mistake, and offered to pay on the train as I admitted my mistake"

 

If they then ask you again about your age, show them whatever proof you have. If they mention the on train staff not noting your age, remind them that you did tell her your age, and ask to be able to call your parents from the station, but weren't allowed to.

 

I suspect that will derail proceedings.

(BTW, you have told your parents? and are you meant to be in school / college on Tuesday?)

 

As OCJ noted, it would be very unusual for court proceedings to follow for a juvenile.

[Alphoria]

Your original post notes you told the RP staff member you were 16.

You haven't turned 17 in the interim?

 

Does the letter make any reference to your age, or to having an "appropriate adult" with you?.

 

Do you have a passport or other official document showing your age?

 

The reason I am asking is that if you are still a juvenile, I'd be surprised if they knew that and wanted to interview you without an 'appropriate adult' present.

The interview then certainly couldn't proceed under PACE guidelines.

 

You could consider attending, "dressing down" (school uniform, no make up) and saying : "I've told my parents I'm coming here, they weren't sure if they needed to come with me, as like I told the lady on the train : I'm only 16.

Your letter didn't say anything about bringing my parents, though"

"I made a mistake, and offered to pay on the train as I admitted my mistake"

 

If they then ask you again about your age, show them whatever proof you have. If they mention the on train staff not noting your age, remind them that you did tell her your age, and ask to be able to call your parents from the station, but weren't allowed to.

 

I suspect that will derail proceedings.

(BTW, you have told your parents? and are you meant to be in school / college on Tuesday?)

 

As OCJ noted, it would be very unusual for court proceedings to follow for a juvenile.

 

They do want me to take a responsible and I'm still 16.

[BazzaS]

They do want me to take a responsible and I'm still 16.

 

Take a responsible adult, and DON'T mention any negative aspects of the member of train staff ; the time to complain about HER is after YOUR case is resolved.

 

Say what you've said here. No need to change it, especially if it is what you told the on-train staff member. You didn't have a valid ticket, but only by an error : explain how you came to make the error you made. Offer apologies for your error, stress that then and now you were and are willing to pay your fare, and that you are sorry that trouble has been caused.

[Alphoria]

Thanks for your advice and I did exactly what you said and the man was very reasonable. He said the usual fine would be £280+ original fare but they would charge me £75 for my stupidity.

 

So overall a £75 fine.