Dubai debt issues

[Ally23]

Layercake1

- My sister works in insolvency and I've just rang her.

 

They would have to make you bankrupt,

you would have to have the equity in your house to clear mortgage and pay them,

this kind of action is way down the line.

 

You must have a good wage to afford £500 to them then living costs

- who came up with that figure?

 

I would take my chance in court and hope for a more reasonable outcome.

 

It's scare tactics!

They are a disgrace!

You definitely need advice.

Have you been intouch with the debt helplines etc?

 

Have you actually been to court yet?

 

She also said they need permission from your mortgage company to apply a charging order otherwise it's not enforceable and the mortgage co don't care as they are paid first before anyone else!

[layercake1]

Hi Ally

I've not been to court yet but the charging orders are there from Land Reg Deeds

Can you confirm the pecking order please for creditors?

Surely it's....

1/ UK mortgage

2/ UK unsecured / secured debt

3/ Dubai Creditors?

 

So any order of sale will get them maybe £5,000.

 

Am I correct in ref to 1,2,3 above?

 

Also can you let me send you a copy of my CWD letter for your sister please??? Thanks - email..

 

My CCA Request - Not sent yet.......advice on change?

 

Account/Ref No: - National Bank of Ras Al-Khaimah / EmiratesNBD...

 

With reference to the above agreement, I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond with you further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement, under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

2. A full statement of account.

 

3. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

4. A copy of any other documents referred to in the agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request.

 

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

[Ally23]

Creditors in this country are mortgage, hmrc, council bank utilities. I don't think most get past mortgage and tax! She's deals with commercial insolvency but does have knowledge of personal. I doubt she can help with regards to the letter they've sent. By the sounds of it they are saying they will advise their clients to push for sale - I think it's a pile of dog dirt as you're more than willing to sort out a reasonable repayment plan with them and a court would see this happen before making you bankrupt and in effect homeless?!

 

Hold your nerve - if they are going to push for bankruptcy then you've got nothing to loose by frightening them!

 

I'm hiring a solicitor - the charges I know will be high but it's worth it so they do t try and take the mick!

[layercake1]

Thanks Ally.

 

Creditors in this country are mortgage, hmrc, council bank utilities.

I don't think most get past mortgage and tax!

 

She's deals with commercial insolvency but does have knowledge of personal

I doubt she can help with regards to the letter they've sent.

 

By the sounds of it they are saying they will advise their clients to push for sale

- I think it's a pile of dog dirt as you're more than willing to sort out a reasonable repayment planicon with them and a court would see this happen before making you bankrupt and in effect homeless?!

 

I'm not rich, therefore after they push for bankruptcy they will get nothing based on the above.

 

I can't really hold my nerve forever though....all I can do is dispute the amount and ask for reduced monthly payments.

 

If anyone else has an advice on CWD please help? Case updates, anything.

 

He couldn't find anything prior to our meeting earlier this year where cases had been won by the uAE banks?!.....

Maybe because the numbers are so few.

Have you sent your CCA request Ally?

[oleg]

If you submit a CCA request, stickto the template on here.

 

Adding a request for deed of assignment is pointless and outside the scope of CCA.

 

Besides, DoA is almost never released and in any case these debts usually appear not to have been assigned but still in the hands of the original creditors.

[layercake1]

It is a golden rule of ppl experienced in dealing with debt almost never to get into phone conversations with DCAs/solicitors. They can, and wil, try to blind you with "sciencel", tie you in knots, invent scare stories and generally put you on tie spot.

 

Besides, you need a complete paper trail in case they do go ahead with court.

 

There should be no particular reason to employ a solicitor of your own unless you are rich. If you are, and the debt C W D are chasing is yours, have you considered repaying it [to the bank not these creeps]? If not, you could adopt the same *self-help* strategies as thousands of members of this forum have used. Solicitors do not hold magic bullets that you can't find here.

 

These accounts stink too much for UK debt purchasers to pay even their lowest pittance and pose all sorts of collection difficulties. Only the likes of C W D will touch them.

 

Just remember, they cannot enforce in court without a true copy of the CCA. Random photocopies do not cut the mustard.

 

These accounts stink too much for UK debt purchasers to pay even their lowest pittance and pose all sorts of collection difficulties. Only the likes of C W D will touch them.

 

Oleg you are so right. Only CWD!

 

CWD are heartless. They assume everyone went to Dubai to defraud the banks.

But nothing could be further from the truth.

The UAE banks and Government scratched their heads in disbelief when 200,000 expats fled in 2007 during the crash. One bounced cheque = 10 years.

That's the reason people. They were terrified.

When I went to Dubai I had NO idea about these brutal laws!

I found out the hard way.

[Ally23]

I think CDW are more than aware of the Dubai situation and are lining their pockets very nicely from other peoples misery! Until we know exactly what the law is and where we stand we continue to line their pockets because people are to scared and can't afford or won't risk fighting it. Let's face it what do they have to loose.... If they get a handful of people paying double the original debt it's a wager for them and all they do is send threatening letters that eat away at you until you pay!

[layercake1]

Thanks Oleg

[layercake1]

Guys.

In reference to force of sale / bankruptcy costs...what would they come be please?

I'm simply asking because the maths just don't work....

 

I can start the list in the right pecking order

 

1/ House Auctioneers Fees - 15%

2/ Bankruptcy Fees - £1,000

3/ Other court fees - £???? (Idea?)

4/ HMRC - £

5/ UK Mortgage - £

6/ UK Unsecured

7/ ?

8/ ?

9/ ?

10/ C W D - Charging Orders (Dubai Banks)

[Ally23]

Layer cake I will ask my sister to confirm but your mortgage will be first. The bankrupt fees are paid by yourself.

[layercake1]

Ally thanks...

I know the mortgage is first...

Surely if I choose bankruptcy then I pay....but if they (CWD) force bankruptcy then they pay???

Bankrupt I don't want.

[Ally23]

Not sure but my sister said it's highly unlikely a court would agree when you're willing to repay debt with a payment plan.

 

She says mortgage company first then anyone else who has a charge on your property second.

[layercake1]

Ally....

For me, it's simply about the maths....

Why are CWD threatening us with Force of Sale letters when after all the numbers are removed it leaves minus figures even before it gets to CWD?

Also to send a force of sale letter before Christmas is brutal.

[Ally23]

It sounds like exactly that they are threatening but unlikely they will follow through.

My sister said there are variations to the rules and no two cases are the same.

You can get free advice, go and find out from an insolvency point of view where you stand.

At least then your mind will be at rest.

[layercake1]

Sure thing. I know 150% Force of Sale will get them zero....so why threaten it??

[Ally23]

Just to worry you and for no other reason.

Get some free advice if it puts your mind at rest.

 

I can put you in touch with my sisters company but might be best to find your local company to have a face to face sit down.

[layercake1]

Ally - Just confirm the pecking order from your sister.......that's all I need....international debt is LAST.

Thka mate

[Ally23]

Not if they have a charge against the house, they would be second.

[oleg]

Will you guys please stop torturing yourselves with this obsession about bankruptcy and order of precedence of creditors [which doesn't differentiate between nationalities, btw]? What you need to be focussing on is preparing to challenge the enforceability of any agreements and other paperwork the solicitors come up with.

 

My hunch is that they will not be able to produce anything that will pass muster in court. If they issued a court claim or statutory demand, you would present a defence putting them to strict proof. I don't know exactly what your credit agreements contain but I would think you have every chance of stopping them dead in their tracks. Furthermore it should cost you no

more than a stamp or two and the £1 per CCA.

 

One of you said that Coyle bla bla sent you some Arabic documents. Do you know what they are about? They wouldn't have been included unless the bank regarded them as significant in some way.

 

One of the reasons I ask is that in GCC countries, English versions of documents issued by state institutions are legally subservient to their Arabic originals. However, I'm not sure whether this also applies to private companies. If it does, this could present some fun and games. Do your credit agreements say something about the precedence of an Arabic version?

 

Beyond sending a CCA request and/or a "prove it" letter, I would just lie low for now if it were me. Do not engage with them. Certainly don't reveal your strategy - at least not beyond what they will glean from snooping into these threads.

 

You would do well to study how the thousands of debtors [i hate that word] on this forum tackle creditors with help from this site - especially where they fail to produce the right paperwork.

 

If people continue to buckle under at Coyle's provocative actions, Coyle will continue to thrive on these easy immoral pickings.

 

Most important of all, let me reiterate, don't place bankruptcy at the top of your agenda. That's defeatist. I'm not saying it can't happen: rather, there are no signs of it yet, only verbose scare tactics.

[unclebulgaria67]

Have CDW issued many court claims in the UK related to Dubai debts ?

 

If they have not issued that many, then why would this be the case. In theory they may be able to issue a court claim, but if they did so, you would defend it and enter into mediation if necessary.

 

Be wary of threads added to online forums that say that CDW have issued a court claim. They are often started providing some information and then they stop. Has the OP then found a Solicitor or was the thread real to start off with. You would think that if someone was in the process of dealing with a court claim, there would be a few posts giving some updates. People would be interested in helping others in a similar situation.

 

Ask CDW to provide a copy of the original agreement together with the full terms and conditions, as well as all statements of account. If they provide this, then you can see what you can challenge and start to do this. The law society helpline may have details of UK based Solicitors that can handle foreign debt issues and if necessary you could arrange a consultation with them.

[layercake1]

Oleg

Thanks for this and point taken.

I sent my CCA request already so wait.

I will let you know when the CCA arrives.

 

In reference to arab docs that wasn't me.

 

Uncle BG....see above.

Thanks

 

Oleg

 

I sent you a private email...

 

Did you receive please?

 

Uncle BG can I send you a private email please?

[renegadeimp]

You sent it to me . Ive deleted it now. Can you post it in the main thread unless otherwise requested. Just make sure to omit personal info.

[layercake1]

CWD reponse

 

In relation to your below email, I can confirm that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is irrelevant to the matter in hand, as your contractual agreements with Emirates NBD and The National Bank of Ras Al-Khaimah are governed by the laws of the UAE. However, as a matter of courtesy, please find attached your copy agreements, terms and conditions and statements of account, all of which have previously been provided to you.

 

In relation to your request for a deed of assignment, I can confirm there is not one in existence. This is due to your liability never being assigned and remaining the property of our clients.

 

 

 

Turning to your request for “any other documents referred to in the agreement”, we believe we have provided you with all of the relevant documentation. However, should there be any further documents which you require, please inform us.

 

Finally, I would like to be clear that the above documentation have been provided as a means of assistance, and with respect your correspondence in relation to this matter is not required. My client’s have already obtained judgments and final charging orders over your property. Further, an application for possession and sale of your property (7 Carmichael Avenue) has already been submitted to Court.

 

I look forward to hearing from you should you have any settlement proposals.

 

Regards

[unclebulgaria67]

So does the Dubai bank have a CCJ and a charging order on your UK property ?

 

If you don't know of this, you should check the CCJ register.

 

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/

 

If they are saying things which are not true you should make a complaint and look to involve the SRA.

[layercake1]

Yes they do.....land registry x2