not enough Points for ESA and Benefits stopped for Mandatory reassesment by DWP DM ** TRIBUNAL WON **

[Katelyn25]

Hi Storm, you have encountered a similar problem to me. Despite arguing that if I was fit for work, I would not be going through mandatory reconsideration!

 

I indeed signed on last Friday with my husband still putting forward the point that I am unable to work but she pressed on. After reading all the paperwork on the weekend we decided that we could not fulfill the obligations and would never get any jsa due to this so we signed off today and told them why. They asked how we would manage so I said I will have to start selling stuff lol !

 

why would we go through the long process of reconsideration and possible further appeal if we were fit for work !

[Katelyn25]

Apologies, repeated myself after I thought my first post hadnt appeared lol

[sadone]

So after having No other choice I signed on JSA while waiting for Mandatory review.

 

Had an Adviser interview today I tried to explain my situation to her and the fact I was on JSA ONLY till I can get my appeal lodged at Tribunal

 

she said she was only concerned about Work related details So off to a good start there "Long story short" she has placed me on a course where I have to turn up to the JCP Monday Tuesday and Wednesday at 9AM till 11.30AM with the National carreas service to teach me confidence and other related Work advice.

 

When I told her my disability could well prevent me from turning up 3 Days in a row as 1 day of activity could take 2-3 days for me to recover from She said well if you don't turn up you will be sanctioned, you have been passed Fit to Work so I can't see any reason why you can't attend and its a Mandatory Requirement.

 

So it looks like I am going to get a sanction as my state of health just wont stand up to 3 consecutive days of strenuous activity and by that I mean just getting to JCP which is a 40 min journey by Bus and a considerable distance to walk between getting to the bus and from where the bus stops to JCP let alone having to sit in a classroom environment for 2-3 hours.

 

I was wondering if I would qualify for Hardship Benefit when that happens as having No money at all would have a serious affect on my health and well being?

 

Just adding this is an appalling state of affairs. Whats wrong with this bloody government that they're punishing people who through no fault of their own can't work. I know It's along shot but have you tried writing to your local MP and informing him of whats going on?

[morgandlin]

Hi Storm, you have encountered a similar problem to me. Despite arguing that if I was fit for work, I would not be going through mandatory reconsideration!

 

I indeed signed on last Friday with my husband still putting forward the point that I am unable to work but she pressed on. After reading all the paperwork on the weekend we decided that we could not fulfill the obligations and would never get any jsa due to this so we signed off today and told them why. They asked how we would manage so I said I will have to start selling stuff lol !

 

why would we go through the long process of reconsideration and possible further appeal if we were fit for work !

 

 

JSA advisors know the system, and they know they have to let you sign on, while MR is going on, so go back and ask to speak to a supervisor, or write/phone in a formal complaint (ask for the manager to respond).

 

They have to take any illness/disability into account, with what they ask you to do, and if you cannot do something that is mandated, take a GP letter to them to support that.

 

MR often only takes a couple of weeks to decide, so you can go back onto the assessment rate of ESA, assuming the MR fails, as soon as the appeal papers are lodged with the Tribunal Service.

[Katelyn25]

JSA advisors know the system, and they know they have to let you sign on, while MR is going on, so go back and ask to speak to a supervisor, or write/phone in a formal complaint (ask for the manager to respond).

 

They have to take any illness/disability into account, with what they ask you to do, and if you cannot do something that is mandated, take a GP letter to them to support that.

 

MR often only takes a couple of weeks to decide, so you can go back onto the assessment rate of ESA, assuming the MR fails, as soon as the appeal papers are lodged with the Tribunal Service.

 

we signed back off jsa on the following Monday, three days after signing on. My husband has now applied for esa under his own medical problems to keep us going during my mand recon. But by the time they process it, I might have had the result of the mand recon lol

[Storm in a T-cup]

UPDATE:-

 

So after a 6 week wait I finally heard from a Decision maker today He was very adversarial from the start.

 

He said he had received no further information from me regarding my case and wanted to know why I wanted reconsideration So I told him I was going to refute everything the Nurse had said in the report as what she had written bared no resemblance to the truth and was in my assessment a complete fabrication.

 

He asked for an example so I said about the first part of the statement Nurse asked me if I did Shopping and I told her yes I just about manage to go shopping once every two weeks to which she replied how long does that take 10 minutes I laughed and said no it takes maybe 45 mins with either the assistance of my son who is a virtual unpaid carer and on the odd occasion that I can't have my Son go with me I had to rely on the Shop staff to help me from start to finish. I also told him that I must keep stopping whilst doing so because of Pain and exhaustion and most times will have to take a seat while my Son / Staff collected what I needed.

 

Nurse wrote Mr. XXXXX states that he can regularly walk for 45 minutes around the supermarket and that she observed me walking for 15 meters from examination room to waiting room using only 1 stick real distance maybe 8-9 meters and from that observation and my "Typical day"? I have NO problem walking 200 meters without any disability with any area of Physical functioning.

 

DM said why did you not tell the nurse you had significant difficulty and required someone to be with you to which I replied that I did indeed tell her I need help of of my son / Staff to help DM also stated I had told Nurse that I have no problem using public transport getting to the supermarket and that it was 75 meters from the Bus stop I told him the Bus stop is less than 30 meters from my house and stops right outside the Supermarket and when i got there i needed to rest in the coffee shop there to regain the strength to be able to start shopping and I also needed to take a taxi home afterwards as the sheer exertion of getting there managing to do my shopping once every two weeks was so exhausting and left me in such Pain I would not be able to cope with public transport back home and if (Rarely) I had no one to go with me I relied on the Taxi driver (a firm that knows me well and is bend over backwards to help luckily ) to bring my shopping to my house. I also stated that this activity would leave me in such pain and exhaustion I would need 3-4 days to recover from it.

 

DM then said that none of this was told to the Nurse on the day of my assessment so I said it was all said that day to which he replied Why would the nurse not have put it in the transcript as ATOS are an independent body and Have no vested interest in not telling the whole truth and have not got any targets or incentives to Fail anyone.

 

DM then went on to go over a few other things in the original Decision transcript all points which I was disputing and basically told me the Nurse had no reason to lie or embellish the truth and that I was the one being untruthful!

 

DM then said that nothing I had said would make him change his mind over the original decision so did I want to carry on with the MR or just drop it there and then.

I said I did indeed want to carry on with the MR and he said "Then I will write to you within 7 working days with his decision which would uphold the original decision and you can "TRY" to make a case for the tribunal" and just put the phone down no thankyou or goodbye.

 

I am terribly upset over the whole conversation with the DM and his out rite open hostility towards me and his unwavering defense of ATOS and its Nurse doing absolutely no wrong and his condemnation of me as a liar and a fraud (Not said in those exact words but heavily implied)

 

I hope I get fairer treatment at Tribunal when I finally get there in 6-9 months as the last 11 months since I was signed off by my Doctor has been absolute Hell being treated like a parasite, scrounger and a liar has had a major impact on my well being the Only good thing about todays conversation is that the MR has been made and soon I will have the paper work to send to the Tribunal and can be put back on assessment rate ESA while I wait to be heard in the Courts as the Last 6 weeks I have been forced onto JSA as the only avenue for ANY money coming making my various conditions 10Xworse jumping through their hoops even my Doctor said if I was to carry on I would put myself in Hospital and do serious damage to my health.

 

 

Sorry for the wall of text but I needed to tell the story of today to stop me breaking down in tears.

I will keep the post updated but have been told by CAB not to expect a resolution for atleast 6 months.

 

Maybe my claim for PiP will go better though with ATOS doing those assessments and at last phone call being told that it could be July/August at the earliest before I get my appointment (Claim made beginning December 2013) and their obvious predisposition to twisting, making up their own Truth I can't say I'm hopeful of getting any kind of result in my favor.

 

My Advice to anyone reading this thread is hope you don't get ill we are the New social pariahs and are treated in a shockingly inhuman fashion!

Edited May 2, 2014 by Storm in a T-cup

[Storm in a T-cup]

OK as expected I received my MR decision in writing today 2 copies only 4 pages in total will be going to CAB tomorrow to start my appeal and get some help with the forms.

 

I have requested a copy of the WCA transcript of what happened at my ( SO called Medical assessment) ESA 85 i believe its called.

Do I also have to request an in depth transcript from the Decision Maker as to why I was awarded 0 points from my ATOS assessment. I was expecting a Big envelope from the decision Maker explaining how the reconsideration was reached not just 2 paragraphs on 1 piece of paper?

 

Any advice gratefully received as I want to be fully armed when I go to appeal also do I need to wait to get all information in and have my case built to send with the initial request for Tribunal appeal or will I get some time to gather the info and refute the total Misrepresentation of the ATOS Nurse then send it in after the first request for appeal?

[Storm in a T-cup]

OK a little update I finally had my Appeal at Tribunal today and WON!!! Tribunal awarded me 21 points and over turned the ATOS nurses assessment which awarded me 0 points. I have been put into the WRAG with the suggestion that I should not be assessed again for at least 18 Months from todays date.

 

It took 16 months from first being signed off by my GP to get to todays decision but I WON so there is still a little Justice out there I also got the distinct impression that the Doctor on the panel at least was disgusted by the ATOS assessment of 0 points I was in the Tribunal for around 40 mins Judge and Doctor were really nice they Told me after we spoke to wait in the waiting room while they discussed my case between them.

 

Literally 10 mins later the clerk said please come back in so i thought the worst being such a quick decision I was worried it had not gone my way but was given the Good news they said there was little to discuss and the decision to uphold my appeal was easy.

 

So take heart everyone going through the ESA grinder it takes a while but fight the Good fight and there is light at the end of the tunnel

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'm delighted for you, well done. I know how it feels to have the decision overturned, it's just a shame you have to work so hard for that to happen.

 

Thank you for letting us know, I'll amend your thread title.

 

HB

[wanton]

OK a little update I finally had my Appeal at Tribunal today and WON!!! Tribunal awarded me 21 points and over turned the ATOS nurses assessment which awarded me 0 points. I have been put into the WRAG with the suggestion that I should not be assessed again for at least 18 Months from todays date.

 

It took 16 months from first being signed off by my GP to get to todays decision but I WON so there is still a little Justice out there I also got the distinct impression that the Doctor on the panel at least was disgusted by the ATOS assessment of 0 points I was in the Tribunal for around 40 mins Judge and Doctor were really nice they Told me after we spoke to wait in the waiting room while they discussed my case between them.

 

Literally 10 mins later the clerk said please come back in so i thought the worst being such a quick decision I was worried it had not gone my way but was given the Good news they said there was little to discuss and the decision to uphold my appeal was easy.

 

So take heart everyone going through the ESA grinder it takes a while but fight the Good fight and there is light at the end of the tunnel

 

 

So you have gone from being told that you are fully fit to being accepted as unfit - good!!

However, given that the Tribunal have 'trashed' the assessment report as well as the DWP's decision, and that the Tribunal will notify the DWP of their new decision, the DWP do have the right to put in an appeal against the Tribunal's decision. It isn't always the case, but it sometimes does happen especially when there is such a vast difference in outcome.

Just thought that I would warn you.

[DES_1001]

well done

[worried33]

my advice at your next WCA if you have one, request a audio recording. Then the events of the WCA are much harder for the DM/ATOS to dispute.

 

This means if you hand written evidence to the WCA HCP repeat what it says verbally so its on the recording.