Garage struggling with repair ****Resolved****

[gpthit]

The girlfriend's car broke down so we took it to a local garage we have used in the past. The guy who owns it seems to be a decent chap and gave us a price on changing the cambelt and oil filter/oil change which we agreed to.

 

 

We dropped it off on the Thursday and he told us it would be done by Friday lunchtime. Friday lunchtime came and went so we popped in to find out what was going on the (girlfriend needs the car for work which we explained at the time of agreeing to the work). The garage owner explained he was having big problems removing the crank bolt, he's tried everything but now the end of the bolt had rounded off so he couldn't get a grip on it.

 

 

He told us the car would be ready on Saturday and he would ring us, needless to say he didn't call and when we rang him he didn't answer, we rang again from the girlfriends phone and he did answer saying he was still unable to remove the bolt but would get it done Monday.

 

 

My question is if it turns out he cannot get the car fixed am I still liable to pay for his time? The car is only worth £600 and the only work I agreed to came to about £270 plusa bit extra due to the time he'd spent with the bolt which I have no problem with as long as he finishes the job.

 

 

Thanks

[rebel11]

Hi gp

 

If the garage promised to fix the car for a specific date/time then they should keep to it. They shouldn't charge you extra for their failure to fix it on time.

 

The following applies:- Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

 

Further info:- http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/supply-of-goods-and-services-act-1982

[Conniff]

There is a knack to removing tight crankshaft bolts but you need to have the correct tools and as they have rounded off the bolt, they obviously don't have the correct tools.

 

 

He will now have to weld something onto the bolt to allow removal.

 

 

No, don't pay a penny more than you were quoted. If they want to run a garage, they should make sure they have the proper 'professional quality' tools and experienced mechanics who know how to use them.

[gpthit]

Thanks for the replies guys. That's pretty much what I thought, I'm going to call in tomorrow and see what's going on. He did say he was planning to weld something onto the bolt in order to free it but I'm just concerned that if it's taken him this long already that he might not be able to do it.

 

 

The guy is an experienced mechanic who's been there for years but he claims that he's never had problems like this before. The car has done 110k and never had a cambelt change (yeah yeah I know!) so the bolt has never been taken out since it was new.

 

 

The guy seems quite reasonable but I want to be ready in case the final bill is much higher than agreed, if it is I will refuse to pay it but if he has the car/keys can he refuse to return the car back if I don't pay?

 

 

Thanks

[rebel11]

Hi gpthit

 

All sorts of stuff you can do if that happens, but you don't need to worry about that, as it hasn't happened.

 

Thanks for the replies guys. That's pretty much what I thought, I'm going to call in tomorrow and see what's going on. He did say he was planning to weld something onto the bolt in order to free it but I'm just concerned that if it's taken him this long already that he might not be able to do it.

 

 

The guy is an experienced mechanic who's been there for years but he claims that he's never had problems like this before. The car has done 110k and never had a cambelt change (yeah yeah I know!) so the bolt has never been taken out since it was new.

 

 

The guy seems quite reasonable but I want to be ready in case the final bill is much higher than agreed, if it is I will refuse to pay it but if he has the car/keys can he refuse to return the car back if I don't pay?

 

 

Thanks

[gpthit]

Ha ha yeah I know I get carried away sometimes! I just hope he gets the damn thing fixed if anything untoward happens I will post it here.

 

 

Thanks for the help

[rebel11]

An update would be good:wink:

[heliosuk]

Er sorry... if you believe what you are reading here you will be mistaken.

 

The garage gives a quote based on an assumption usually dictated by a book time. The book time given makes no allowance for difficulties which might be experienced due to the conditions the car might have operated in and would be entitled to charge more if they so wished to overcome the problem. However, good practice would be that they gave you a heads up that this would be the case and the option as to whether or not you wanted to continue.

 

If you stick to the letter of the law then you have an estimate, not a quote and there are limits which apply to estimates. Estimates are given on what is known at the time and usually subject some degree of flexibility.

 

It is not true that having the correct tools will make the job easy. Correct tools only work when there is not a problem.

 

Personally as the garage concerned seems to be acting in a reasonable way at the moment I'd be inclined to actively engage with them without being confrontational as this will put them on the back foot. As you seem to have a good relationship with them ask them to explain the problem and ask where you stand.

 

Things don't always go to plan through no fault of anyone so the responsibility needs to be shared.

[Conniff]

Have to admit it doesn't say quote, so yes the final price could be different.

 

 

Of all the hundreds of cam-belt changes on all ages of cars that I have done, never once have I damaged the crankshaft bolt. Some have been a right sod to get off because of tightness, but making sure the tools fit as they are designed to and knowing more than some teacher told you means it might take five mins longer than normal.

[gpthit]

Hi Helios and connif,

 

 

I do appreciate the fact that it has been a bad job for him and I'm quite prepared to pay a little extra for the time it's taken. The original price was asked for by me as a "quote" as I was shopping around at the time, the garage owner gave me an exact figure of £211.70 for the belt change.

 

 

Given you both sound experienced in this area what would you consider a fair charge for the extra time? I'm thinking no more than an hours labour, I just want to know where I stand if he takes the proverbial.

 

 

Thanks

[rebel11]

Hi gpthit

 

You dropped off the car on Thursday, he said 'it would be done by Friday'.

On Friday he says 'it will be done by Saturday, he was having big problems removing bolt'

on Saturday he says ' it will be done by Monday, he can't remove the bolt'.

 

He's given you several dates as to when the job would be completed and at no time has he stated that it will cost any more then the original amount indicated. Keep us updated.

 

Was the fact that he said he could get the job done by 'Friday' a consideration for giving him the job?

[king12345]

just hope that he can remove the bolt without damaging anything.

If he's an honest mechanic should only round it up to £250 which is still a very reasonable price for a cambelt change.

Make sure he changes the tensioners and water pump at the same time.

Changing just the belt is bad practice and most failures are due to tensioners.

Water pumps are cheap and once he's there changing it would take 3 minutes and would avoid re-opening everything if it failed.

Maybe it didn't include tensioners and water pump, that's why it's so cheap.

[gpthit]

Hi gpthit

 

You dropped off the car on Thursday, he said 'it would be done by Friday'.

On Friday he says 'it will be done by Saturday, he was having big problems removing bolt'

on Saturday he says ' it will be done by Monday, he can't remove the bolt'.

 

He's given you several dates as to when the job would be completed and at no time has he stated that it will cost any more then the original amount indicated. Keep us updated.

 

Was the fact that he said he could get the job done by 'Friday' a consideration for giving him the job?

 

He did mention on the Friday when I went around that it might cost "a bit more". The fact that he said it would be done Friday was the main consideration as my girlfriend relies on the car to get to work and public transport is not an option due to the location and distance. By shear luck I'm off work today so I could give her a lift in but after that we're stuck if it's not done!

 

 

The thing that's set me off is the fact we told him all this and he promised to ring us and let us know but didn't.

[gpthit]

just hope that he can remove the bolt without damaging anything.

If he's an honest mechanic should only round it up to £250 which is still a very reasonable price for a cambelt change.

Make sure he changes the tensioners and water pump at the same time.

Changing just the belt is bad practice and most failures are due to tensioners.

Water pumps are cheap and once he's there changing it would take 3 minutes and would avoid re-opening everything if it failed.

Maybe it didn't include tensioners and water pump, that's why it's so cheap.

He did say he would be changing the tensioners etc but when I asked about changing the water pump he said that there's no need to on this model (Focus1.6 Zetec)?? Does that sound right?

 

 

Price wise he does come in well under other garages in the area and has done a decent job in the past so fingers crossed he finally gets it sorted.

[rebel11]

Hi gpthit

 

I think you need to be firm, the job hasn't gone as the garage had anticipated, but would other garages have had the same problems removing the bolt, maybe a bit more research in that direction. A few phone calls might give you further information that you can present to the garage owner.

[king12345]

He did say he would be changing the tensioners etc but when I asked about changing the water pump he said that there's no need to on this model (Focus1.6 Zetec)?? Does that sound right?

No!

Changing the water pump at the same time as cambelt and tensioners is standard practice and a must if you ask me.

For the sake of £60/£70 and 5 bolts you potentially avoid opening everything again should the pump fail and possible disastrous consequences to the engine.

[gpthit]

All's well that ends well. He charged a bit extra but also topped up the car with anti freeze and did a little welding job on the exhaust all included. Seems he is a decent bloke after all (even though it took him a while to get it done!).

 

 

It's a shame that all the rouges out there give everyone a bad name and make people like myself automatically assume they're going to be ripped off : (

[rebel11]

Well done gp.

[Conniff]

Glad it all worked out well for you. If you really want to know how much you saved, give the main dealer a ring and ask them how much they will charge, it will probably bring a couple of deleted expletives to be expressed and a sharp intake of breath.

[heliosuk]

It's a shame that all the rouges out there give everyone a bad name and make people like myself automatically assume they're going to be ripped off : (

 

Yes it is indeed. It's not helped either by some members of CAG steaming in with SOGA or the supply of goods and services. These legal tools should be used as a last resort.

Most garages are in fact decent businesses the problem being we only hear about the bad ones which tarnishes the reputation of the good ones.

 

Personally I'd like to see some sort of registration/regulation for the industry and those who work on cars. For example there are more computer programs and control systems in a New Range Rover than an Airbus A380 yet in a few years to come would you book your a A380 into an unregistered repairer and then fly on it?

 

I don't think so.

 

Current dealers are not much better either but most manufactures are on the case now with graded technicians only allowed to do certain jobs.

 

Good result though and just goes to prove that sometimes things can work out for the better if dealt with in a non confrontational manner.

[caro]

I have a local garage I use and they've never ripped me off. In fact they replaced a valve 6 months ago which had caused my car to overheat. The valve went again recently so they replaced it FOC and refused the money I offered towards labour or as a tip.

[rebel11]

Really? I haven't steamed in with anything, might be an idea to read what's been written. I gave 'gp' the law and then I advised 'lets wait and see what the garage owner does'. Unfortunately the following doesn't make good reading, but I suggest you should read it anyway:-

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/24778368

 

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_office-20130313

 

 

Yes it is indeed. It's not helped either by some members of CAG steaming in with SOGA or the supply of goods and services. These legal tools should be used as a last resort.

Most garages are in fact decent businesses the problem being we only hear about the bad ones which tarnishes the reputation of the good ones.

 

Personally I'd like to see some sort of registration/regulation for the industry and those who work on cars. For example there are more computer programs and control systems in a New Range Rover than an Airbus A380 yet in a few years to come would you book your a A380 into an unregistered repairer and then fly on it?

 

I don't think so.

 

Current dealers are not much better either but most manufactures are on the case now with graded technicians only allowed to do certain jobs.

 

Good result though and just goes to prove that sometimes things can work out for the better if dealt with in a non confrontational manner.

[Billy's mate]

Yes it is indeed. It's not helped either by some members of CAG steaming in with SOGA or the supply of goods and services. These legal tools should be used as a last resort.

Most garages are in fact decent businesses the problem being we only hear about the bad ones which tarnishes the reputation of the good ones.

 

Personally I'd like to see some sort of registration/regulation for the industry and those who work on cars. For example there are more computer programs and control systems in a New Range Rover than an Airbus A380 yet in a few years to come would you book your a A380 into an unregistered repairer and then fly on it?

 

 

 

A good

 

I don't think so.

 

Current dealers are not much better either but most manufactures are on the case now with graded technicians only allowed to do certain jobs.

 

Good result though and just goes to prove that sometimes things can work out for the better if dealt with in a non confrontational manner.

 

 

A good reply mate, this one of my pet topics. I'm not allowed to fit a gas fire in my house because I'm not Gas safe registered, and yet I can ask a gasman to overhaul the brakes on my Ferrari. Both jobs are equally lethal if not carried out correctly. That's why there's so many cowboys in the motor industry. I agree, there should be registration for mechanics. The Institute of the Motor Industry have a voluntary scheme ( for which I'm registered ), but I'd like to see it become a legal requirement. By the way, I don't actually own a Ferrari !