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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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The Car Finance Company turned up at husbands work!!!!


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Just after a little bit of advice please. Please excuse any spellings mistakes etc as I am so mad as I type right not :mad2::-x

 

At the beginning of this year we took a car on finance,

we made several payments and then found that we were struggling to keep up payments but we always caught them up.

 

In June we moved house (notified the finance company) and then from then we completely missed a payment.

 

One payment turned into 2 and we had a visit (at our new house) from a gentleman from "the car finance company",

a payment arrangement was put in place but we missed it.

 

I contacted them by email explaining our situation and asking if there was anything we could do and

they said "no", that it had been sent to repossession.

 

I emailed them back asking what happens next as I really didn't want repo men turning up at home to take the car unannounced etc

and they confirmed that the repo men would get in touch with me first

(I made sure that they had the correct contact number as had changed my mobile number). T

his was mid September and I haven't heard a thing from them.

 

My husband works as a postman and he was called into his managers office.

When arriving in the office he was told that a debt collector was there for him!

Imagine his absolute embarrassment!!!

He spoke to this guy and the guy said that they had made numerous home visits....

...only they had been visiting our old house!!!!

 

Are they allowed to turn up at his work???

I have no objection to them taking the car and

I have been waiting for them to call to arrange to take it!

 

I also know for a fact that they haven't written to our old address because I have redirection on our mail.

 

I am so mad right now!!!

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I have posted a similar thread in the vehicle repossession category but by looking at other posts in there

not many people seem to comment on them. I

 

apologise for duplicate posting but really would like any advice that anyone could offer.

 

We took out car finance earlier this year and fell behind.

 

During this time we had a house move and I supplied "the car finance company" with our new address details,

 

I was visited by an employee at my new address and I made a payment arrangement.

 

We broke the agreement because we simply couldn't afford to pay 2 months as a lump sum plus late fees.

 

I contacted "the car finance company" by email to advise them of my situation

but they said they were unable to help as it'd already been sent for repossession.

 

I asked what the process was and they said that the repo men would make contact

(I was worried about them turning up unannounced and causing a scene etc).

 

this was mid September and I haven't heard a thing.

 

Fast forward to today and

 

my husband was called into the office by a manager and was told a debt collector was here to see him!!!

 

Imagine the complete embarrassment!!!!!

 

The Car Finance Company have given Wrights Recoveries UK our old address and they have been to the house several times and

because we didn't reply to the cards he had left (obviously didn't reply as didn't get them because we don't live there)

he turned up at my husbands place of work!!!

 

Now I have no problem in giving the car back,

I have been expecting them for the past 2 months

but what I do object to is the way that they have gone about it.

 

I made sure that The Car Finance Company had my correct address and telephone number.

 

Wrights Recoveries have also never written because I have redirection on my mail therefore if they had of written I would have received it.

 

What should I do?

Can I complain?

Who do I complain to?

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

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I would suspect they themselves put the letters through your old addresses door

so redirect wont work.

 

as suggested

 

who is the finance company

 

what type of finance is it? [works across the top of the agreement pleace

 

is there a bill of sale involved?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi thank you for your replies. The car finance company is "the car finance company".

 

It is a HP agreement (i don't have the original documents to hand as they're all still packed away).

 

Yes i still have the car. He is meant to be collecting tomorrow from our home address.

 

From memory we took out the agreement in April 2013 part exchanging our old car (which was an old banger).

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...and yes we are still in arrears they declined our offer of payment and said only thing we could do was pay full amount plus £250 repo fees as they'd already sent it to them. I understand the car has to go...just very annoyed about the work visit and saying who they were!!! Even though the car finance company had correvt address AND mobile number

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cant charge repo fees nor any late PENALTY fees

 

they are unlawful.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

we need to see that agreement please

 

they should not be discussing it with a 3rd party no.

 

and I don't think they can repo from private property either without a court order

and even then, it WONT be a repo company but court bailiffs.

 

sequenci will know

let me go find a thread with the info

hang on.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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we need to see that agreement please

 

they should not be discussing it with a 3rd party no.

 

and I don't think they can repo from private property either without a court order

and even then, it WONT be a repo company but court bailiffs.

 

sequenci will know

let me go find a thread with the info

hang on.

 

dx

 

I will try and dig it out. I thought they could reposses without a court order because i haven't paid many payments?

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and I don't think they can repo from private property either without a court order

and even then, it WONT be a repo company but court bailiffs.

 

sequenci will know

 

They are not supposed to under s92 of the Consumer Credit Act. Problem is, is that if they were to take the vehicle the potential damages awarded to the OP would be minimal at best.

 

If you would like to keep the vehicle, a Time Order could be incredibly useful:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=06c_time_order_hire_purchase_or_conditional_sale_agreement

 

Have you paid more than 1/3 of the finance (apologies if this has been askwed and answered on the thread already)

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Fees may be payable if the vehicle is being recovered under a Writ of Delivery by an HCEO or his agent.

 

My question was in relation to the visit to work!!! Majorly wound up as if they'd of used the correct information then they could've taken the car without any hassle nor any embarrassment!!!! I specifically asked the car finance company what the protocol was and ensured they had correct numbers because i didn't want ANY embarrassment!

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They are not supposed to under s92 of the Consumer Credit Act. Problem is, is that if they were to take the vehicle the potential damages awarded to the OP would be minimal at best.

 

If you would like to keep the vehicle, a Time Order could be incredibly useful:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=06c_time_order_hire_purchase_or_conditional_sale_agreement

 

Have you paid more than 1/3 of the finance (apologies if this has been askwed and answered on the thread already)

 

i wish i'd of known about this before before :( a bit too late now considering the repo man from Wrights is coming tomorrow!!!

 

I have paid less than 1/3

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I have today spoken to the repo man from Wrights Recoveries (I called him), he was very polite and courteous (probably because he realises that this will be an easy unobstructed levy) and he said that they visited my old house 3 times and because we failed to contact them they had no choice to visit my husband at work as they just presumed that we were evading.

 

I have arranged for him to collect the car later today but I will be writing a formal letter of complaint to The Car Finance Company, I have all of the emails between myself and them which clearly states my phone number (my "new" address they even visited) and I will also be writing to Wrights Recoveries telling them how unprofessional the company that they are working for are! I mean this should have been a very straightforward levy....if they had the correct details it would've taken 1 phone call and the car would've been collected not 3 visits to my old address and then a further visit to a work place and then a final visit to collect!

 

I know that the letters won't do any good but if anything they will make me feel better.

 

I suppose my next problem will be when The Car Finance Company come to claim the rest of the finance on the agreement.......

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take lots of detailed photos of the car

 

outside

 

inside

engine etc etc

 

they will try and hang damages on you as well I bet.

 

thus the car didn't sell well at auction because etc etc.

 

also ENSURe the repo guy does a full inspection and YOU get a signed copy of his report.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Please be aware that if the car is sold on an auction for way less than you paid, you will still be liable for the balance. We got caught the same way about 17 years ago before Internet etc.

The car was worth over £4000 but was sold on auction for £1200 and we were liable for the difference plus interest and costs. It took us several years to pay off the debt. As you have not paid a 1/3 they probably don't need a court order.

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  • 1 year later...

I "fell behind" - actually refused to pay because the car had 1500 miles put on it from signing for the car and collecting it,

 

 

i had £3000 worth of bills in 2 months, the garage warranty refused to pay out, finance company denied liability SO I REFUSED TO PAY.

 

This took 4 months of non-payments for their collections department to contact me,

after complaining to the manager, they instigated a VOLUNTARY TERMINATION!

 

 

They advised me once the car is auctioned, any monies owing would be sought after by the car finance company either by debt recovery or court.

 

 

I had to deliver the car to their allocated auction site and they refused to give me any paperwork for handing the car over,

the finance company tried taking another months money but i made sure my standing order was cancelled.

 

 

They blamed this was an error due to the xmas holidays and said once its been auctioned they will see how much is still owing.

 

To my amazement, i received an annual statement and printed in black and white was:

 

RETURNED ASSET OUTSTANDING BALANCE £6231

RETURNED ASSET AUCTION SALE £6231

CLOSING BALANCE £0

 

What a coincidence the car sold for the exact same amount that was owed, in other words it sold for more and they pocketed the rest

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  • 10 months later...

thread is 2yrs old

now closed

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

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