New House Problems

[Alderbrook]

Hi

 

We have recently (12 days ago) moved into a new (not brand new, 15 years old) house.

 

There are numerous problems, including it just being really dirty but there are three problems I would really appreciate the forums thoughts upon.

 

There are three radiators that just do not work. We have tried bleeding them but are resorting to get a plumber around as that has not worked.

 

We have today found that the drain for one of the bathrooms is blocked and is overflowing on the patio.

 

Lastly, there is a damp roof - we think from a bath overflow/shower leak rather than "damp" as such.

 

I have just looked at the form the seller completed where they have said that they are not aware of any defects in the central heating system, that there are no drainage defects and that there is no damp.

 

Appreciating Caveat Emptor, is there any comeback given they have issued signed statements on each of those matters?

 

Cheers

[steampowered]

You need to go through the exact wording of each of the statements made in the form one by one and assess whether or not, objectively speaking, the statements are untrue.

 

Statement that they are not aware of any defects in the central hearing system - You would need to prove (1) that the problems you are encountering are problems with the central hearing system and (2) that the seller must have been aware of this.

 

Statement that there are no drainage defects - this is self-explanatory.

 

There is no damp - self-explanatory, although not sure a damp roof would classify as damp.

 

If the seller has made a false statement which you relied on to make the purchase, then yes you can pursue the seller through the county court small claims track for misrepresentation.

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to General Legal Issues

[The Mould]

Hi

 

We have recently (12 days ago) moved into a new (not brand new, 15 years old) house.

 

There are numerous problems, including it just being really dirty but there are three problems I would really appreciate the forums thoughts upon.

 

There are three radiators that just do not work. We have tried bleeding them but are resorting to get a plumber around as that has not worked.

 

We have today found that the drain for one of the bathrooms is blocked and is overflowing on the patio.

 

Lastly, there is a damp roof - we think from a bath overflow/shower leak rather than "damp" as such.

 

I have just looked at the form the seller completed where they have said that they are not aware of any defects in the central heating system, that there are no drainage defects and that there is no damp.

 

Appreciating Caveat Emptor, is there any comeback given they have issued signed statements on each of those matters?

 

Cheers

 

As regards the dirt, surelyyou must have been aware of this when you viewed the property – yes or no?

Did you not instruct a surveyor (RICS) to undertake a full structuralsurvey and valuation of the property?

Have you spoken to any of the neighbours as regards theseproblems? They could be potential witnesses for you.

You purchase a property and within 12 days you encounter allof these problems! Of course the sellerwas aware of the same, on the balance ofprobabilities that is. Did youinstruct a full structural survey by a Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyorsin this matter (RICS) before you exchanged and completed on the property?

The overflowing underground pipework for the bath can becured by simply rodding the drain yourself, through the inspection chamber or employinga Co. to do the same.

This damp roof from the bathroom/shower, is there any signsof mould on the walls or ceiling to the bathroom, if there is, this brings me back to my fiurst question asregards a surveyor (RICS) who would have highleted the same and any defects infact, in his report on the property.

As regards compensation for any of the above, you will need to establish one of 3 things; a) that the Estate Agent was aware of thesedefects and misrepresented the same; b) that the vendors knew of these problems andmisrepresented the same; or C) that your surveyor knew of the same and thathe misrepresented the same.

In a nut shell, youwould need to establish that the matters set out in sentence 6 above are in fact a deliberate misrepresentation bythe vendors.

Kind regards

The Mould

[Alderbrook]

Many thanks all.

 

Our survey was conducted by our Mortgage Company for their needs only. There were various issues with the purchase and I - foolishly in hindsight - chose to rely on the limited information in that, rather than the fuller survey (it would have added to already lengthy delays and put the purchase at jeopardy).

 

There was nothing from the surveyor about any of the specific issues, but of course he was just looking at critical issues for the lender rather than issues that I could rectify, so I appreciate there is likely to be no claim there. Similarly the estate agents did not state anything particularly about the property.

 

Fortunately I have managed to get the drain cleared via the emergency help included on my home insurance policy, so at least that is one less issue.

 

The damp roof is just due to overflowing bath/shower spray because of poor sealant imo and is not "damp" per se, so I suspect I'm struggling there.

 

We are going to get a plumber round to see about the heating issue and if there are any sizeable costs I will contact the previous seller and highlight the various issues they left us with and what they stated. I would be hopeful that they would want to be reasonable, but I was very interested in the legal position given my initial reading of Caveat Emptor.

 

Apologies for posting this in the wrong forum initially btw.

[steampowered]

That sounds sensible Alderbrook, good luck.

[labrat]

might be worth contacting the seller via your solicitors

 

we had various promises off our seller (carpets would be left etc)

we moved in to find all carpets taken, talked to the solicitors and they arranged to get the carpets from the seller

 

on getting the carpets they had been cut down to fit differnt rooms, solictors again and seller paid to fit new carpets

[Alderbrook]

Thanks for that labrat. The solicitors we used were not much use during the sale but I will contact them at first instance.

 

Solely concentrating on the central heating issue, we have been in contact with the seller who is stating that they only put the radiators on in other rooms, rather than the three that were not working. Therefore they are saying they completed the form in good faith as they did not know that the central heating was not working. They also advised that they paid British Gas to conduct annual services of the system (not sure if the sellers really know whether BG would have checked all radiators or just done the boiler as we have none of the records).

 

Our plumber has said the system does need power flush due to the build up of sludge which is stopping the system working and that this will not have just happened since we moved in. I will obtain a written statement from the plumber on the system as this would presumably required for any legal action.

 

The sellers have clearly stated the following on the SPIF: -

 

- Does the property have central heating? "Yes”.

- Is it in good working order? “Yes”.

- Are you aware of any defects in the heating system or boiler? “No”.

 

What is the forums view of these answers as creating a misrepresentation?

 

How would you best take this forwards, through a solicitor or issue proceedings through a small claims court myself?

[Old Cogger]

BG just service boiler no doubt, after many years I have never known them check radiators on on one instance at the very 1st service visit and that is visual not tested.

 

If radiators are not working might be an air lock and the system may simply need bleading to let the air out whilst the pump is working, you will not have much lee way from the comment on the form (as I found out in the past as is there proof that the incident started under their occupancy?

 

Just bleed the system at the Radiators and hopefully the radiators will start to heat up, but getting the air out can take a while but stay with it until it start dripping water, be honest the radiator on has an open end one end and another open end the other, so water is pumped thru it.

[Alderbrook]

Thanks Mike, the plumber has already tried bleeding the radiators and after 4 weeks has said that the problem has to be sludge (already drained a fair bit when trying to sort one of the radiators).

 

We have only been in the house four weeks and the radiators did not work from day 1. They were here for 8 years previously, so surely this would be a balance of probabilities position regarding when the issue has happened? Appreciate any correction on that if I am wrong though!

[king12345]

try this:

Shut off all radiators except one of the not working.

Run the central heating for half hour by putting the thermostat on max.

The offending radiator should get hot.

Blead the offending radiator.

Follow the same procedure for the other two radiators not working.

If this doesn't work then you need a power flush at a cost of £300/£700 depending on size of the property.

Unless they never added a central heating inhibitor, the system should not have sludge after 8 years.

[Alderbrook]

Thanks King, the plumber has tried all of that. He has been here on various days over the past 4 weeks trying lots of ways to fix it and has just got to the conclusion that the build up of sludge is in the system. He poured out a lot of foul black sludgey "water" on Friday to evidence the problem.

 

I have no idea if there is an inhibitor but the property is 15 years old, it is only the past 8 years that our seller was in the property.

[king12345]

Power flush it is then.

Good luck recovering the money.

The bank survey only makes sure that the property could be resold to cover the mortgage, so if you have asked £100k in mortgage and put £20k as deposit they would just accept that.

Unfortunately this happens all the time and home buyers are usually ok with spending money to fix a few things.

This doesn't mean it's ok to lie in the fixtures and fittings declaration.

[steampowered]

If you were given incorrect answers on the SPIF, I would think that is enough to justify a misrepresentation claim. You may wish to google for McMeekin v Long.

 

The SPIF says that you should not give an answer unless you are sure it is accurate. I think it was incumbent on the seller to at least check the central heating was in good working order before assuring you of this.

 

Even if the answer was given in good faith, although this sounds doubtful, I'm not sure that matters. Innocent and negligent misrepresentations may be pursued as much as fraudulent misrepresentations.

 

If the amount is less than 10k you may pursue this through small claims track of the county court. You can use a solicitor, but if you are prepared to put the work in it is not necessary. In SCT you are unlikely to recover legal costs. You would of course need to have good evidence to prove what, exactly has gone wrong with the radiators and that the seller would have known about it if they had checked. A good way of doing this is often to get a short report from an independent expert (such as the plumber), and if the case is successful you can recover the costs of this up to 750 if you get the court's permission to use the expert report.

 

Unless you can identify a specific representation made to you in writing about the damp or the drainage a claim for these would be very difficult.