TfL PCN 46 stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway) London N16

[shivayash]

Dear all,

 

This ticket greeted me this (12.11.2013) morning. Alleged contravention took place on 03.11.2013 at 6pm (see attached PDF scan).

 

I stopped to collect a pre-ordered meal from a restaurant and was in place for about 1-2 mins.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Yours,

 

ShivaYash

Stoke Newington

[shivayash]

Hello again,

 

Just checked the online colour images. See attached.

 

Initial observations,

 

1. Car lights are clearly ON,

2. NO CCTV - am I actually stopped? (Answer is yes but have they recorded that)

 

Best,

[dx100uk]

red route you stopped .

cant see hoe you can avoid it?

dx

[sgtbush]

red route, no stopping at any time unless stated. no way out im afraid

[shivayash]

Their evidence only shows my car in a red lined box... no reference is made to the signage in place. Surely this is a ground?

[citizenkain]

ask those local shopkeepers there,theyre probably sick of losing business to that camera,they might give you some advice as they are in the firing line there!

[shivayash]

ask those local shopkeepers there,theyre probably sick of losing business to that camera,they might give you some advice as they are in the firing line there!

 

Thanks, could you clarify what you mean please? I don't understand... could this be used as a 'ground of appeal'? Or simply weight to my argument when I present at PATAS? Presuming it goes all the way.

[Michael Browne]

It's a Red Route loading bay 10am-4pm, with a sign just in front of the telephone box:

http://goo.gl/maps/0NwBU

 

It's also a bus lane Mon-Sun 7am-7pm

http://goo.gl/maps/Aj3uh

 

Not that that's the alleged contravention, but by parking there, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Can't see any get-out here.

[citizenkain]

you havent really got any grounds of appeal,theyve got you over a barrel,the shopkeepers there might be getting a petition together to do away with the restrictions,put your name down,you will still have to pay but at least you will have made a protest!

[shivayash]

Doesn't TfL need to put drivers 'on notice' if they are to use CCTV cameras, and hence justify their reasons?

 

I did not see any CCTV camera signs at this section of the road.

If I wish to claim under this 'technical' ground, which box should I tick?

 

Best wishes,

[shivayash]

Hmmm... just the 'traffic enforcement cameras' sign. This is turning in one expensive kebab experience!

[citizenkain]

yeah,your parked next to the camera enforcement sign in a buslane which is just next to a red zone,your actually in the loading bay,how plain is that to you? have you been driving long?...the shopkeepers there as I said must be sick of that camera,anyone that stops for a kebab in a car would be getting a ticket

[shivayash]

yeah,your parked next to the camera enforcement sign in a buslane which is just next to a red zone,your actually in the loading bay,how plain is that to you? have you been driving long?...the shopkeepers there as I said must be sick of that camera,anyone that stops for a kebab in a car would be getting a ticket

 

Wow, thanks for your support. Perhaps you should amend your name. I'll post on here when it's at the patas stage.

[citizenkain]

that will be interesting

[Michael Browne]

Wow, thanks for your support.

 

You came here asking for advice. No-one has been able to suggest any legitimate grounds for appeal.

If you don't want to listen to the answer, it's a waste of time asking the question.

 

I'll post on here when it's at the patas stage.

 

My advice is to cut your losses and pay the discounted penalty while you still can.

[citizenkain]

thats certainly the best option,chalk it down to experience and dont go there for a kebab again at that price!

[shivayash]

Dear all,

 

With the risk of being slapped down with 'we told you so'... surprise surprise, my representations against this PCN have been refused. I attached the Notice of Rejection to this message. I am slightly confused by the usage of wording regarding viewing the CCTV footage. Wasn't there a case about this in particular?

 

Any constructive advice welcome.

 

Best wishes,

SY

Edited December 7, 2013 by honeybee13
Name on attachment. Attachment removed.

[shivayash]

Also, just tried to make an appointment to view CCTV footage and have been told the only office available in in Croydon. This is not a convenient location for me. Does that mean that only other option I have is to pay £10 and obtain a recording of the footage by post?

[sailor sam]

Dear all,

 

With the risk of being slapped down with 'we told you so'... surprise surprise, my representations against this PCN have been refused. I attached the Notice of Rejection to this message. I am slightly confused by the usage of wording regarding viewing the CCTV footage. Wasn't there a case about this in particular?

 

Any constructive advice welcome.

 

Best wishes,

SY

 

 

Attachment isn't working.

 

Can I ask what ground your appeal was based? Was the red route 'live' at the time you stopped?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[sailor sam]

Further to the above, i've just read the rest of the thread and noted the location/signage.

 

CCTV enforcement signs aren't necessary. Are you going to say to the adjudicator (assuming that you take it that far), that you would of only obeyed the red route restriction if you had known there was a camera there?

 

Personally I would pay the fine at the discounted rate as previously advised. Your further appeal will surely fail and cost you the full amount.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[shivayash]

The attachment has been removed as it contained my name,

 

I thought I'd blanked out all the relevant bits,

but clearly not.

I'll attach again.

 

Please see the file:

[shivayash]

I appreciate you taking the time to read thread

and would be interested to know the number of tickets issued by TfL in this location by CEO vs. camera.

 

My understanding is that camera enforcement does not replace CEO enforcement,

as TfL have stated in their letter but that it must be 'dangerous/ impractical' for the latter.

 

I understand I was 'collared' because I stopped on a red route

however had this ticket been issued by a CEO, there would, I feel,

have been time to speak to him/ her about my vehicle being parked there,

and I would have moved it asap.

 

My vehicle was there because I was 'loading' - I also understand this isn't a defence.

I was in this box for less than three minutes whilst my wife and child were sitting in the car,

you'll see the lights and engine were still running in fact.

 

I'd appreciate constructive comments on this thread instead of unnecessary rude/ aggressive points about the above.

 

PS. I think I may take your advice and simply pay, but I do think there is a point to be made here.

 

Further to the above, i've just read the rest of the thread and noted the location/signage.

CCTV enforcement signs aren't necessary.

Are you going to say to the adjudicator (assuming that you take it that far),

that you would of only obeyed the red route restriction if you had known there was a camera there?

 

Personally I would pay the fine at the discounted rate as previously advised.

Your further appeal will surely fail and cost you the full amount.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[MarknRuth]

Flog, horse and dead spring to mind

[sailor sam]

I appreciate you taking the time to read thread

and would be interested to know the number of tickets issued by TfL in this location by CEO vs. camera.

 

My understanding is that camera enforcement does not replace CEO enforcement,

as TfL have stated in their letter but that it must be 'dangerous/ impractical' for the latter.

 

I understand I was 'collared' because I stopped on a red route

however had this ticket been issued by a CEO, there would, I feel,

have been time to speak to him/ her about my vehicle being parked there,

and I would have moved it asap.

 

My vehicle was there because I was 'loading' - I also understand this isn't a defence.

I was in this box for less than three minutes whilst my wife and child were sitting in the car,

you'll see the lights and engine were still running in fact.

 

I'd appreciate constructive comments on this thread instead of unnecessary rude/ aggressive points about the above.

 

PS. I think I may take your advice and simply pay, but I do think there is a point to be made here.

 

That's the bit you aren't getting... you had "stopped" on a red route which is a "no stopping" contravention meaning that even a CEO would of issued you with a ticket simply by you getting out of the car. Because to do so, you would have to be "stopped" first. It's like pulling up and getting out on pedestrian zig zag markings... as soon as you open a door, the "offence" is committed.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.