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    • when mediation call they will ask the same 3 questions that are in their email you had to accept it going forward. simply state 'i do not have enough information from the claimant to make an informed decision upon mediation so i refuse. end of problem.  
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    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business CEntre Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio i Ltd How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self   Date of issue –  15 Feb 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  The claim is for the sum of £922 due by the Defendant under and agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a Capital One account with an account reference of [number with 16 digits] The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a Default Notice was served under s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit ACt 1974 which has not been complied with. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 16-06-23, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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unsecured uk debts now living in nz


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Hi, I wonder if anyone could offer me some clarity on our situation, I have read through various posts but am now totally confused and not sure what to do. We moved to NZ 6 months ago, we left the UK with £50k of unsecured debts split between 8 different dcas. We have been running a dmp via step change for the last 3 yrs and paid on time every month, in the uk we did have property which we were fortunate enough to sell with equity before leaving. We used the equity to move to NZ and also paid back money friends and parents had lent us in the past. Now we are struggling to keep up payments in the UK and step change is advising we go bankrupt - which we dont want to do because the receiver will want a breakdown of how we spent the equity from our house sale. We are concerned if we tried to declare bankruptcy the receiver will find us fraudulant due to spending the proceeds of the sale.

 

We followed the advice on here and advised all DCAs of a po box address in NZ in writing and in fact have received the usual default notices here in the po box. All the while we continued to honour the dmp agreement. However we are now considering stopping payments - due to not having any remaining assets or disposable income. We know we do not have any CCJs and assume from advice here they cannot issue CCJs now we are non resident in the UK. Can the UK DCAS sell these debts to NZ dcas and if so can the NZ dca enforce them? Also can the UK dcas enforce bankruptcy as we have only been out of the UK for 6 months?

 

Any advice would be appreciated, this is starting to really concern us as we have a young family. Thanks

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Its extremely difficult for a DCA to enforce a debt over in NZ, it has been tried before and failed...

These debts will go away after 6 years... My honest opinion is stop the payments, if you are living in NZ there is almost nothing they can do to you.

A judge can only enforce a CCJ in an English court in English territory.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

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Just stop payments. You don't have to go down the bankruptcy route. If you want to look at bankruptcy, Stepchange have a team that deals with bankruptcy from abroad, who can advise you on how this would affect you.

 

It is possible for CCJ's to be obtained in the UK in your absence, but because they know you are abroad, they would have to follow a particular procedure. This would include the court having to send the court claim to your address in NZ. But what would they then do in trying to enforce in NZ. It is possible in theory, as there is a commonwealth law dating back to 1933 which enables a reciprocal arrangement between courts UK/NZ. But they won't do this, as they would risk spending money, that they would not get back. So instead if they wanted to hassle you, they would get a DCA to write to you in NZ, with no real intention to use the courts.

 

If I were in your situation, I would end the DMP and write to each DCA/creditor advising them of the situation. If you cannot afford the repayments, it is then up to the DCA to decide what to do. I suspect that they will add your debt to a list and they will sell it on, without telling the new DCA what the score is with the debt. But get some advice about bankruptcy first and see how it could affect you in NZ.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for the advice. We have taken advice on bankruptcy and it would be the best option if we hadnt have had equity that we effectively spent. It appears from the advice we received there is absolutely no effect of going bankrupt in UK on NZ. Worst case is they send a letter to the NZ bank account and your landlord to advise you are bankrupt in UK. But this has no impact here assuming you are maintaining everything correctly which we are.

 

Sounds like best move would be stop paying dmp, write to each of them saying cant afford payments and then let it play out. Can anyone advise on the best form of wording of this -ie do we just make it quite generic saying we cannot afford to repay anything and would you advise sending a budget sheet (like used for step change indicating there are no assets or disposable income)?

 

I think we were just worried we could end up with NZ dcas chasing us around but it sounds like even if they did we could just ignore them?

Edited by newlifenz
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Keep the letter simple and direct. i.e ( There is no point telling them not to write to you asking for payment, as they ignore that and write anyway. You have told them the position, so just read anything they send to you and don't respond if you don't need to)

 

Dear Sir

 

acccount no.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

We are currently making payments through a debt management plan in respect of the above account.

 

Unfortunately, our finances have taken a turn for the worse and we are unable to maintain payment. Therefore with immediate effect, payments will be stopped

 

Just to make you aware of our financial position, I have included a separate sheet showing our current income and expediture. As you will see there is very little in the way of spare income that would enable meaningful payments to be made.

 

I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that we do not possess any assets in the UK or New Zealand. We currently rent out property in New Zealand.

 

It is hoped that at some stage in the future our financial position will improve and we will be able to meet any commitments that we have. If we are fortunate to get to such a position, we will be in contact with you.

Edited by unclebulgaria67

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for the advice. We have taken advice on bankruptcy and it would be the best option if we hadnt have had equity that we effectively spent. It appears from the advice we received there is absolutely no effect of going bankrupt in UK on NZ. Worst case is they send a letter to the NZ bank account and your landlord to advise you are bankrupt in UK. But this has no impact here assuming you are maintaining everything correctly which we are.

 

Sounds like best move would be stop paying dmp, write to each of them saying cant afford payments and then let it play out. Can anyone advise on the best form of wording of this -ie do we just make it quite generic saying we cannot afford to repay anything and would you advise sending a budget sheet (like used for step change indicating there are no assets or disposable income)?

 

I think we were just worried we could end up with NZ dcas chasing us around but it sounds like even if they did we could just ignore them?

 

Hello, I am in exactly the same situation as you. I just stopped communicating with all credit card companies, debt collection outfits etc. They will huff and puff and threaten to send people on a door step visit etc. Pure bull**** though, they won't do anything at all except threaten. Eventually they stop even the threats. COMPLETE SILENCE AND NO CONTACT WITH ANY OF THEM is what I recommend to you. They will try and intimidate you into replying DON'T REPLY.

 

Good luck and don't worry.

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It is possible for CCJ's to be obtained in the UK in your absence, but because they know you are abroad, they would have to follow a particular procedure. This would include the court having to send the court claim to your address in NZ.

 

Hi Uncle Bulgaria,

 

Totally agree with your comments but can I just ask you clarify the "particular procedure" that may be used to obtain a CCJ against a non-UK resident?.

 

Unless the law has changed, is it not the case that a County Court Judgment can only be obtained against a UK resident and cannot legally be obtained against a debtor that is living outside the UK?

 

By "living" I mean someone who can prove permanent residence overseas and is thus unable to attend a the UK County Court "nearest to their address" in order to defend themselves.

 

What would be the point in sending the documents to an overseas address if the OP could simply send them back stating that he was living in NZ and therefore beyond the court's jurisdiction?

 

I agree with your point about the reciprocal agreement but this would only be applicable if a CCJ had first been lawfully obtained in the UK.

 

In theory the creditors could try to sue in an NZ court but since I assume these debts are governed by the UK Consumer Credit legislation, the hearing could only take place in an NZ court if the case was heard under UK law.

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I will have a look again at this, but I read of rules that allow for a claim to be sent to a foreign address, where the defendent is not a UK resident. There seemed to be a procedure that would allow for a judgement against a non UK resident. Perhaps this can only be used in certain circumstances, where the person still has some ongoing interest in the UK and not in a situation where they have left the country lock, stock and barrel.

We could do with some help from you.

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 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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This may well be the case for some claims that are not the usual unsecured (i.e.credit card and personal loan) debts discussed on this forum.

 

However, for all debts covered by the 1974 CCA, jurisdiction is strictly limited to the County Courts in England and Wales and by the Sheriff court in Scotland and neither of these bodies can pass judgement on anyone living outside the UK.

 

I have to admit that I am not 100% up to speed on the current situation for cross-border enforcement of consumer debt within the EU but in the case of the OP who is in NZ, there's certainly nothing to worry about.,

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