guarantor - got CCJ by default - HELP

[gupta]

hi,

im new to this thread,

need some urgent help

 

,it all started in 2009 when family member started buiseness.

unfortunatley the buiseness folded in 2011.

then suddenly i started to get letters from national westminister bank for £15k overdraft payment.

 

after enquiring with them

they said i was reponsible for the dept as i was the guarantor.

 

this was a shock to me as i never signed the guarantor documents.

 

they asked me to produce 5 signatures of mine, which i posted to them.

 

then i got the shock of my life when they went to court in my absence and got the ccj against me by shakspears solcitors on behalf the bank.

 

they also wanted the charge on my property.

 

then i wrote to court to have the case put on side as i was not aware of the situation and never received any papers to appear in court.

 

i had the hearing on the same day as hearing for the charging order which was on the 19/06/ 2013.

 

i went to court and judge did put the case on side as the judge did not think the signature matched that was on the guarator documents.

 

then the judge did tell me to notify the fraud squad about the situation which i did.

 

the judge also told the claiment to investigate on the signature and gave 8 weeks.

 

yesterday i got a letter yesterday saying the fraud squad have said there is no fraud involved in it.

 

need help what do I do now.

 

i'm worried.

Edited September 11, 2013 by dx100uk

[AndyOrch]

Hi gupta and a warm welcome to CAG.

 

I will relocate your thread to the appropriate forum..

 

Regards

 

Andy

[sequenci]

Who are the fraud squad?

 

Thank you and best wishes,

 

Seq.

[Ganymede]

Who are the fraud squad?

 

Thank you and best wishes,

 

Seq.

 

 

It's a bit of a nickname really.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud_Squad

[gupta]

thanx for all the reply. the fraud squad was from national westminister bank i presume because they havent told me who it was. do you think i should ask for that information.

[renegadeimp]

You need to contact actionfraud. The bank will only be looking out for themselves

[gupta]

hi thanx for all thelp, i dont know who were the fraud squad, they didnt tell me,but, i presume it could be from national westminister bank plc. do you think i should ask them.

[gupta]

sorry for repeat answer. where do i get het contact details from. should i also ask the bank for the report of investigation.

[gupta]

hi. i been talking to the fraud squd from the one who has reported as saying no fruad has taken place, there answer was because i never had the account and because no money was taken out there was no fraud involved in it. they asked me for the account no for the fraud reported but that didnt match the acc.no. which was on the guarantor statement. thats when they told me to go to the branch with id and tell them to ring us while your in there. is that ok to go there.

[renegadeimp]

You mean go to your bank? If so, then yes, its ok. As the bank would call for you and pass the phone for you to answer questions.

 

 

You still need to contact actionfraud, as you have been given a CCJ and someone has forged your name on the documents. Dont wait for the bank to finish investigating, contact actionfraud, tell them what you have told us, and get that crime number. Once you have the crime number, give it to the bank and youll notice how they sit up and shift up a gear.

[gupta]

ok m8 ill do that thanx for your advice

[The Mould]

hi. i been talking to the fraud squd from the one who has reported as saying no fruad has taken place, there answer was because i never had the account and because no money was taken out there was no fraud involved in it. they asked me for the account no for the fraud reported but that didnt match the acc.no. which was on the guarantor statement. thats when they told me to go to the branch with id and tell them to ring us while your in there. is that ok to go there.

 

The fact is, that if you did not sign the guarantee agreement in question, then you are not liable for sum amount claimed. See - Statute of Frauds 1677, which apply to this case. Forget the fraud Squad, but retain all written documents received by them. At the present time, based upon the material posted here by you thus far, this is a civil matter; if you did not sign the guarantee as alleged, then you simply defend the same and invoke Statute of Frauds 1677 - that is; agreements of guarantee must be in writing and signed by the gurantor to such (that would be you), which, based upon your postings here, has not been proved.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[renegadeimp]

The fact is, that if you did not sign the guarantee agreement in question, then you are not liable for sum amount claimed. See - Statute of Frauds 1677, which apply to this case. Forget the fraud Squad, but retain all written documents received by them. At the present time, based upon the material posted here by you thus far, this is a civil matter; if you did not sign the guarantee as alleged, then you simply defend the same and invoke Statute of Frauds 1677 - that is; agreements of guarantee must be in writing and signed by the gurantor to such (that would be you), which, based upon your postings here, has not been proved.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

 

Sound advice. But if the OP genuinely didnt sign the guarantor documents, yet they have been signed by another party, then it does become a criminal case.

[Mike_hawk]

Do you have a copy of the order following set aside? Would be useful to see whether the bank was ordered to respond to the court.

 

Not sure who heads up the banks fraud dept, the previous incumbent left when the unit relocated.

 

I suppose the bank could argue there is/was no fraud involving the parties at the hearing....if it accepts you are not the guarantor and discontinues the case. Very much depends on the order and how the bank interpreted the investigation it was to undertake.

[gupta]

yes i have the copy of order it was put aside for 8 weks and the has applied for the stay untill 28 september. does that help.

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Gupta

 

Could you type the order verbatim please, don't include case number or any identifying details.

 

Who are the sols instructed by the bank?

[The Mould]

hi,

im new to this thread,

need some urgent help

 

,it all started in 2009 when family member started buiseness.

unfortunatley the buiseness folded in 2011.

then suddenly i started to get letters from national westminister bank for £15k overdraft payment.

 

after enquiring with them

they said i was reponsible for the dept as i was the guarantor.

 

this was a shock to me as i never signed the guarantor documents.

 

they asked me to produce 5 signatures of mine, which i posted to them.

 

then i got the shock of my life when they went to court in my absence and got the ccj against me by shakspears solcitors on behalf the bank.

 

they also wanted the charge on my property.

 

then i wrote to court to have the case put on side as i was not aware of the situation and never received any papers to appear in court.

 

i had the hearing on the same day as hearing for the charging order which was on the 19/06/ 2013.

 

i went to court and judge did put the case on side as the judge did not think the signature matched that was on the guarator documents.

 

then the judge did tell me to notify the fraud squad about the situation which i did.

 

the judge also told the claiment to investigate on the signature and gave 8 weeks.

 

yesterday i got a letter yesterday saying the fraud squad have said there is no fraud involved in it.

 

need help what do I do now.

 

i'm worried.

 

It would appear to me that one of your family members has forged your signature on the Guarantee Agreement, the Judge clearly picked up on this.

 

You need to have a serious talk with your family member who started this business, further, I would advise you to instruct a hand writing expert to act as your expert witness should this matter continue further. The forensic document examiner would require at least 12 of your original signatures for comparison against the suspect/questioned signature on the Guarantee Agreement, this would cost you apprx £1k up to around £1,500k.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[gupta]

thanx mike hawk, but i dont quite no what you mean by the order verbatim.

[The Mould]

thanx mike hawk, but i dont quite no what you mean by the order verbatim.

 

Mike means, please post up the Court Order word for word minus all personal details.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[gupta]

thanx for that m8.its says and upon the court being satisfied the application to set the judgment aside was madepromptly and it appears the defendant may have reasonableprospect of succesfully defending the case. it is orderedthat.1 the jugement against myself be and is hereby set aside.2 the interim charging order be discharged. 3 the case be stayed for 8 weeks to allow the claimant to investigate the defendants claim the signeture on guarantor is not his.

4the claimants solicitors to notify the court not more then 7 daysafter the expiry of the stayperiod the outcome of the stay.

[gupta]

and the sol instructed by the banks are shakespears solicitors.

[Mike_hawk]

Might be an idea to check if shakespears filed a response with the court in good time.

 

Have you reported the matter to the police? Clearly somethings amiss, you would hope a responsible business would refer the case itself but it may cause it embarrassment.

 

Wouldn't place much confidence in any investigation carried out by the bank, it has a habit of contradicting reality.

 

Short term I believe you should report the matter (if not previously done so) and press the claimant for its current position.

[gupta]

thanx again, i did phone action fraud squad and they told me they couldnt help as there was no money involved in it. no i have not reported to police but i have received the letter from the court saying that, 1 the claiments claime stayed until 26 september. 2 the claiments solicitor will notify the court not more then 7 days after the expiryof the stay period the outcome of the stay, and will file proposed directions agreed with the defendant if possible.3 the parties have liberty to apply.

[Mike_hawk]

Perhaps a sar to the bank would be useful.

 

The dates you posted threw me, hearing on 19th June, 8 week stay ordered to 26th September... did it really take the court 43 days to process and serve following the hearing?

 

Which contact number did you call at actionfraud?

[gupta]

thats correct, but they went and ask for further extension of stay. the no. i called was 03001232040. dont you think sar to the bank might to long to reply, what if the court hearing takes place any earlier. many thanx for help