lowell joined 3 debts [2 mobile, 1 credit card]made me BK, now want my house!!

[Mike_hawk]

Is there more? Reasons for denying relief should be stated.

[wendyboats]

REASONS

 

 

1.The Appellant was made bankrupt on 5th July 2012 following service of SD on 1 December 2011. Her Trustee in bankruptcy has since appointment been administering her estate.

 

 

2.The appellant applied to annul the bankruptcy on the grounds she did not actually know of the SD or the bankruptcy petition, and that she had a cross-claim miss-sold PPI.

 

 

3.Appellant found solicitors .............. of Brighton to act for her in August 2013.

 

 

4. The time for appealing order expired on 7th August 2013 those solicitors accepted instruction to act then ceased to act October 2013.

 

 

 

 

I will type up rest in morning as I am feeling unwell and confused , if however I find I can not sleep I will try and conclude typing up other 8 reasons given.

 

 

Thank you to all who have helped me thus farxxxx WB

[Desperate Daniella]

Give yourself a little rest, Wendy.

 

We'll be here in the morning.

 

Hugs,

 

DDxxxx

[wendyboats]

Give yourself a little rest, Wendy.

 

We'll be here in the morning.

 

Hugs,

 

DDxxxx

 

 

Morning Daniella, and morning to all CAGGERS,

 

 

I will continue to type out remaining 8 reasons and then the other letter I got too, so be a little patient and then hopefully some one can help me through this next chapter.

 

 

Kind regards Wendy aka Watson still on the case xx

[Ganymede]

REASONS

 

 

1.The Appellant was made bankrupt on 5th July 2012 following service of SD on 1 December 2011. Her Trustee in bankruptcy has since appointment been administering her estate.

 

 

2.The appellant applied to annul the bankruptcy on the grounds she did not actually know of the SD or the bankruptcy petition, and that she had a cross-claim miss-sold PPI.

 

 

3.Appellant found solicitors .............. of Brighton to act for her in August 2013.

 

 

4. The time for appealing order expired on 7th August 2013 those solicitors accepted instruction to act then ceased to act October 2013.

 

 

 

 

I will type up rest in morning as I am feeling unwell and confused , if however I find I can not sleep I will try and conclude typing up other 8 reasons given.

 

 

Thank you to all who have helped me thus farxxxx WB

 

 

 

 

I was worried about this originally. Although you have good reasons to appeal, the judge won't even look at those until you've applied for and been granted relief from sanctions for being out of time to appeal.

 

Hopefully when you type up the rest of the Order we'll have a better idea.

[wendyboats]

5.The time for appealing the order of the District Judge expired on 7th of August013 whilst shortly before those solicitors had accepted instruction to act. They did not cease to act until early October013.

 

 

6. There was no attempt to appeal until November 2013 when application was made for variation of time.

 

 

7.No appeal was actually brought until 21st January 20914.

 

 

8. The grounds of appeal do not set out why the District Judge was wrong in law not to annul the bankruptcy order. They merely repeat the grounds on which the original application was made.

 

 

9. The decision whether to extend time requires me to consider all of the circumstances of the case including (specifically) the need to enforce compliance with the rules.

 

 

10. The delay of 5 months is significant (particularly since for the first two months the appellant had solicitors acting for her).

 

 

11. The delay is not explained by any exceptional circumstances (but only the regrettably frequent explanation that the appellant personally did not know the time limits and that her solicitors acting for her pro-bono did not observe the time limits).

 

 

12. There are no circumstances in which it is just to deprive the respondent of the benefit of the time limits set by the rules.

[wendyboats]

I was worried about this originally. Although you have good reasons to appeal, the judge won't even look at those until you've applied for and been granted relief from sanctions for being out of time to appeal.

 

Hopefully when you type up the rest of the Order we'll have a better idea.

 

 

Thanks Ganymede xx

[wendyboats]

First court letter dated 17th April,

 

 

The Judge has considered your letter dated 25th February and has noted that there has not yet to be a judgement of the lower court filed. He has requested that you make urgent inquires with Southampton county court as to whether a judgement was given. If one was not given please forward a letter from that office confirming such.

 

 

AS you know I went to offices and was told all bundler sent to Winchester last November, and Judges do not usually write up their judgements, and they would not send confirmation to the judge.

 

 

I phoned London court several times as well but was told there must be a written judgement ?

 

 

My feeling are that the judge in the second letter might have the Bundle or part of, The judge in the first letter dose not seem to be in conversation with the judge who refused my variation of time ??

 

 

Any idea's as to what I should do, I am thinking of writing up my response to his reasons with a letter to appeal ? WB xx

[Ganymede]

Any idea's as to what I should do, I am thinking of writing up my response to his reasons with a letter to appeal ? WB xx

 

 

 

 

It doesn't work like that I'm afraid. The decision has been made and the reasons for refusing you relief from sanctions are clear.

 

Unfortunately you should have put your reasons for relief from sanction under CPR 3.9 in your application for relief, you can't argue the Court Order and the Judges decision to refuse relief point by point.

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Wendy

 

All I can think of is relying on s.282 of the insolvency act, you are pretty much left with requesting relief on the basis the order should never have been made. I can't think of anything else within the rules that may prompt the court to provide you with a hearing at least to look behind the original order, it's reasons may seem harsh if you're on the receiving end but they do appear correct.

 

Unless anyone else can come up with an option for you I'm struggling to think of anything else. There's no guarantee the court will entertain it and it would almost certainly require some evidence from you that you were not insolvent and could service the demand if you had been aware of it.

[wendyboats]

Hi Wendy

 

All I can think of is relying on s.282 of the insolvency act, you are pretty much left with requesting relief on the basis the order should never have been made. I can't think of anything else within the rules that may prompt the court to provide you with a hearing at least to look behind the original order, it's reasons may seem harsh if you're on the receiving end but they do appear correct.

 

Unless anyone else can come up with an option for you I'm struggling to think of anything else. There's no guarantee the court will entertain it and it would almost certainly require some evidence from you that you were not insolvent and could service the demand if you had been aware of it.

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

 

This was my defence from the get go, that's why I am having a hard time understanding how when put my trust in professionals I have ended up here ?

 

 

Meaning on my own ("With CAG") fighting for justice , my appeal was to overturn the original case were I was absent, The court should never have considered a bankruptcy order, the amount was easily payable to anyone, yet it went strait into bankruptcy???

 

 

The barrister in the appeal did not mention anything of this it was a farce, my solicitor waited a year to collect the evidence, did not even set it a side first ??

 

 

I have written to some barristers for help, Next step will have to be the media ! what else can I do ?? WBXX

[wendyboats]

It doesn't work like that I'm afraid. The decision has been made and the reasons for refusing you relief from sanctions are clear.

 

Unfortunately you should have put your reasons for relief from sanction under CPR 3.9 in your application for relief, you can't argue the Court Order and the Judges decision to refuse relief point by point.

 

Thanks Ganymede WBXX

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Mike,

 

 

This was my defence from the get go, that's why I am having a hard time understanding how when put my trust in professionals I have ended up here ?

 

 

Meaning on my own ("With CAG") fighting for justice , my appeal was to overturn the original case were I was absent, The court should never have considered a bankruptcy order, the amount was easily payable to anyone, yet it went strait into bankruptcy???

 

 

The barrister in the appeal did not mention anything of this it was a farce, my solicitor waited a year to collect the evidence, did not even set it a side first ??

 

 

I have written to some barristers for help, Next step will have to be the media ! what else can I do ?? WBXX

 

Hi Wendy

 

Did the lower court simply reject the original appeal as out of time without considering the underlying facts?

 

Was any documentary witness evidence considered at all regarding your means at the time of demand or petition?

[wendyboats]

Hi Mike,

 

 

It was a total farce as my solicitor was going to represent the case, last minute he could not so got trainee barrister,( I did not know this at time) and I assumed all the details would be bought up, but the only issue brought up was why I was not at address for several months, so did not see letters allegedly put through letter box.

 

 

She said (Judge) I should have changed my postal address, but I did not know at time how long I would be away supporting my daughter and grandson through difficult times, that is why I am his full time carer now ! The Judge just said "everyone has problems to deal with in life" and she did not accept I never new about court proceedings till after the event.

 

 

No nothing, all that was used was my Affidavit's and no mention of means were made.

[Mike_hawk]

If you're going to apply to vary or set aside you'll need to act quickly. The court will assume the order was served on Monday.

[skyler11]

Hya, sorry to hear your still going through this nightmare , do not leave your home everybody is entitled to a roof over theyre heads. The cost of moving ,doing up a new home plus the price of renting ,would probably put u into debt .Which does not make any sense to me . the only ones that will gain would be the trustee as the petitioning creditor would be probably unsuccesfull due to unsefficient funds. Then leading to selling your home for undervalue but in reality selling for much more and pocketing even more profit.

This has happened to me ,mortgage payments where still being made by myself a year after eviction.now i cant get help from anywhere and cannot afford rent or get housing benefit . i could manage without help previously been left hi and dry . stick to your guns wendy write to the european courts of human rights try everything but do not leave your home. i could not get advice anywhere but untill your lender askes you to leave dont,and stay put as your under contract with them. Best wishes xx

[wendyboats]

If you're going to apply to vary or set aside you'll need to act quickly. The court will assume the order was served on Monday.

 

 

I am sending off tomorrow, I understand weekends and bank holidays do not count ?

[wendyboats]

Hya, sorry to hear your still going through this nightmare , do not leave your home everybody is entitled to a roof over theyre heads. The cost of moving ,doing up a new home plus the price of renting ,would probably put u into debt .Which does not make any sense to me . the only ones that will gain would be the trustee as the petitioning creditor would be probably unsuccesfull due to unsefficient funds. Then leading to selling your home for undervalue but in reality selling for much more and pocketing even more profit.

This has happened to me ,mortgage payments where still being made by myself a year after eviction.now i cant get help from anywhere and cannot afford rent or get housing benefit . i could manage without help previously been left hi and dry . stick to your guns wendy write to the european courts of human rights try everything but do not leave your home. i could not get advice anywhere but untill your lender askes you to leave dont,and stay put as your under contract with them. Best wishes xx

 

 

 

Thank you for above advice Skyler,

 

 

And I am sorry to hear your story, and how you were left to defend yourself. I will never give up, I can promise you, and every one here on CAG , Its not in my nature, and I am very grateful for your support, and all the support and input good or bad I have been given thus far !

 

Wendyboats AKA Watson remains on the casexxxxxxxxxxx

[Mike_hawk]

I am sending off tomorrow, I understand weekends and bank holidays do not count ?

 

Just business days for service.

 

Did you retain the envelope the order came in? I'd be inclined to make reference to the physical service date (date it landed on your doormat) in your response rather than leaving the judge to assume it as deemed served at an earlier date.

 

If you post 1st class tomorrow, deemed service would be Tuesday 29th.

 

Have you drafted your application yet?

[wendyboats]

Just business days for service.

 

Did you retain the envelope the order came in? I'd be inclined to make reference to the physical service date (date it landed on your doormat) in your response rather than leaving the judge to assume it as deemed served at an earlier date.

 

If you post 1st class tomorrow, deemed service would be Tuesday 29th.

 

Have you drafted your application yet?

 

 

Unfortunately I never saved envelope and I am angry with myself as I read I should, I think its in bag outside still so I may go and rummage.

 

 

No I have not drafted up yet was going to ask.........The judge states I can send application by letter quoting reference number. I am a little confused as what I need to put now and what I can put in my defence etc. It will be oral hearing, do I need to go to London?

[Mike_hawk]

Wendy

 

Tbh, you really need specialist advice. Not had time to read or digest the whole thread, if you're genuinely stuck and can't source legal assistance all I can come up with at short notice is to apply to set aside the order and request relief to a oral hearing as the matter of your solvency was not considered by the lower court. You believe that as you were able to service the demand (and evidence same) had it come to your notice and were not insolvent s282 (1)(a) of the insolvency act would be effective, the bankruptcy order should be annulled. You would also be asking the court to grant you relief from sanction for the delay in appeal in asking it to look behind the lower court judgment.

 

There could be other reasons to set aside or vary but right at this moment I can't think of any to suggest.

[Desperate Daniella]

Mike,

 

I agree with you. Wendy needs specialist advice and to be represented by a barrister who knows what they are doing.

 

I do agree with the advice you are giving: Wendy wasn't insolvent so it should never have been bankruptcy.

 

But also there were unfair charges on the account and had these been removed the claim would not have reached the bankruptcy threshold, also bearing in mind that she would have also have argued that the mobile phone accounts weren't owed either.

[Mike_hawk]

I did have a look but any other matters would (I think) be vested in the trustee of the bankrupt estate. None can be argued effectively whilst the order stands, the lower court didn't question proof of debt and seemingly didn't allow Wendy to argue past being out of time in appeal. I suppose the PPI element could have been progressed but the trustee would be joined as claimant (assuming it approved) and it would leave no benefit for Wendy. Given the trustees costs I'd have to guess that any involvement would probably inflate the level of fees.

[Desperate Daniella]

I don't think there is any point in pursuing the PPI now.

 

I am concerned that some of the papers have apparently been lost and they may have made a difference to the order if [this] judge had seen them.

[unclebulgaria67]

I don't think there is any point in pursuing the PPI now.

 

I am concerned that some of the papers have apparently been lost and they may have made a difference to the order if [this] judge had seen them.

 

It might be worth continuing the PPI complaint against the original creditors. I think Wendy started this. If you remember, I believe Wendy submitted an insurance claim to actually use the PPI, but this was mislaid. Therefore the PPI was of no use to Wendy, as the OC did not even consider any claim against it. Wendy has since pursued a complaint to get the PPI premiums back ?

 

I am no legal expert, but I think the only avenue open to Wendy is to pursue an oral hearing with a high court judge, where she can show that she was not insolvent at the time of the bankruptcy petition and that the debts were disputed, so should not have been subject to bankruptcy. The problem is that Judges are bounds by loads of procedural rules, which appear designed to protect the interest of people who will make money from the bankruptcy.