HMRC tax credit debt letter out of the blue - not sure what to do

[Homer67]

My partner received the attached letter today from HMRC stating that she owes a debt for overpayment of Child Tax Credit and Working tax credit and the dates given are periods ending 05/04/2007 and 05/04/20008.

 

At this time my partner was still married and living at the marital home and was claiming both allowances correctly up to the time she left on the 20th November 2008

 

She has a letter from the tax office confirming that she stopped both working tax and child tax credit on the 20th November which was the last day she lived at the marital home.

 

My partner then did not live with her children (she lived round the corner in a house share) and claimed nothing from the time she left to March this year. She did pay CSA payments in the time she was the absent parent.

 

My partner got divorced in 2009 and moved in with me in August 2012, the only one of her children still under the age of 18 (17 at the time) came to live with us in November 2012.

 

As his father refused to give him any money my partner went to the CSA to make a claim and claimed the child allowance (he was still claiming it up to that point) in March 2013.

 

Now this letter has arrived claiming a debt of over payments for the child and working tax credits for 4 and 5 years ago - not sure why or what we should do, any advice please?

[dx100uk]

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

[catzeyes79]

Contact the helpline and dispute the debt within 93 days

[dx100uk]

dunno what that was by it weren't PDF just pages & pages of symbols.

 

attach the file as a PDF please

 

dx

[Homer67]

Can someone get rid of the previous post please?

 

I have no idea how to upload pictures, it just won't work for me.

 

Any ideas on what we should do with the HMRC please?

[Homer67]

Attachments uploaded again as PDF - last attempt before PC goes through window...[ATTACH=CONFIG]45615[/ATTACH]

[dx100uk]

that's better

 

dx

[dx100uk]

right that's page 2

how you get a single half page to be 4.5MEG I don't know!

what reg are you scanning at ?

dx

[Homer67]

No it's not, it's page 2 only...arrrggghhh

 

I don't know how to use a scanner and there's no one under the age of 50 here to help so I don't have a chance really.

[Homer67]

Page 1 I hope...

[dx100uk]

cant see what passing the debt to a dca can do

 

they cant enforce it

 

only hmrc can

 

dx

[Homer67]

That's what I thought and any DCA turning up at my door will get short shrift from me.

 

What's odd is why haven't they chased her before for this and why does it go back to 2007 and 2008 for over payments - bearing in mind she was legit in claiming it and stopped it the day she left the marital home so there shouldn't be any over payments.

 

If this was enforceable then surely they would have chased it before?

 

She has pretty much lived in one place since leaving the marital home up to moving in with me and she works so she pays tax as a PAYE employee so it's not like she's hard to find.

[Peterbard]

If you are referring to it not being unenforceable because you think it to be Statute Barred, debts from the public purse never become SB. It may be UE in terms of it being incorrect. You need to dispute this all the way. The DWP are appalling and act as judge and jury on this type of thing.

 

They do use a range of DCA's nowadays who, I assume, have the powers of a normal DCA - but remember that includes acting with the OC which is likely here.

 

Phone their helpline and ask how to appeal this overpayment. Be prepared to keep battling, even when they tell you it can't go any further - they lie!

[dx100uk]

yes they do lie!

 

I believe that the only think they can do is take it from future benefits.

 

however you seem to have evidence that its notright anyhow

 

so go with that route first.

 

dx

[sequenci]

If you are referring to it not being unenforceable because you think it to be Statute Barred, debts from the public purse never become SB.

 

Yes they do - as per s7 of the Limitation Act 1980. The 6 years runs from when the final decision re: the overpayment was made (unless there have been payments or a written acknowledgments since).

 

It's important to note, however, that even though the legal remedy via court action is barred, recovery can still be undertaken indefinitely via alternative measures - such as a deduction from an ongoing benefit; solid provisions were introduced by the Welfare Reform Act which got rid of the decision in Joseph v Newham (this argued that deductions beyond 6 years were unlawful).

 

** Important **

 

The House of Commons Public Accounts Committee have arrived at a decision along with HMRC which states that overpayments from between 2003/4 and 2008/9 for which no payment has been received in the past 12 months should not be collected upon. Given this, I think a formal complaint should be there way to go.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

See the amendments to the Welfare Act that came into force March 2011, particularly reference to stat barred. section 108.

Edited August 6, 2013 by BRIGADIER2JCS

[Homer67]

Ta all, so it seems like this: The 'debt' is disputed as she believes it was claimed correctly during the claimed over paid periods and stopped when she was no longer entitled (on the exact day) Am I correct in thinking that from sequenci's post the Tax Office cannot pursue this overpayment through debt collectors/court etc and the only way they can claim it back is to stop any future benefits?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The Welfare Reform Act 2012 change a greater part of this.

[sequenci]

Ta all, so it seems like this: The 'debt' is disputed as she believes it was claimed correctly during the claimed over paid periods and stopped when she was no longer entitled (on the exact day) Am I correct in thinking that from sequenci's post the Tax Office cannot pursue this overpayment through debt collectors/court etc and the only way they can claim it back is to stop any future benefits?

 

Yes, that's likely to be true - but only if the final decision of the overpayment was over 6 years ago, I'm not sure it was. You're better to argue that HMRC have made the decision not to try and collect these old overpayments - look to a formal complaint. Read my above post

[Homer67]

I've done some digging on the HMRC website and can't find any mention of the decision to not chase these old over payment claims - no surprise there then!

 

Any links to that information?

 

Regards the complaint is that via the dispute over payment form on the HMRC or to another department?

 

As she was married and living with the ex husband in those years quoted as over paid 2007 & 2008 would the 'debt' be half his as it was a joint claim for a married couple?

 

Finally, if we chose to ignore this are they likely to just send another claim letter next year or take it further? I know ignoring is not the best policy - I'm just thinking about options.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Homer67

[Homer67]

Just another thought - partner is still on a very low income, she works part time on minimum wage 16 hours per week, she doesn't claim anything currently but I suspect she would be entitled to Working Tax Credit.

 

We are not married and I own the house in my name only, therefore I presume my salary is not considered?

 

If she made a claim now and then agreed for the over payments to be taken out of it, would the tax office be likely to agree that?

Edited August 6, 2013 by Homer67

[sequenci]

Any links to that information?

 

There's mention of it on page ev35/6 of this:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmpubacc/1565/1565.pdf

 

I'm trying to find the original document for you!

[Homer67]

That makes interesting reading, it all comes across a bit amateurish on Mr Hartnett's account! As my Mum would have said - he sounds like he doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

[sequenci]

There is another document which I cannot find for the life of me. I'm quite busy in the day job but the decision is pretty well known within the advice world.

[Peterbard]

OP - I owe you an apology, I was wrong.

 

Seq, I think the attached pdf if what you were looking for. [ATTACH=CONFIG]45621[/ATTACH]