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    • Hi,  It has been a long time but I have had confirmation claim will proceed to hearing in roughly 1 months time.  I was wondering if anyone could advise on defence please.  A few questions I have are: 1) I didn't notify VCS that I was not the driver of the vehicle and the judge may look negatively on this point.  I did not receive any direction in correspondence from VCS  that I should inform them if I was not the driver and that was going to be the foundation for may argument on this point. 2) The vehicle is stopped at a zebra crossing.  Based on the images from VCS for around 10 seconds.  At that time there is someone standing near the zebra crossing and someone else enters my vehicle.  I was going to raise the point that stopping at a zebra crossing when someone is standing near it is to be expected.  I was also going to ask the question how you can have a no stopping zone when there are zebra crossings where the driver is required to stop. 3) The no stopping zone is clearly signposted, however, no drop off or pickup is not clearly signposted with one small sign at the zebra crossing, parallel to the road and on the passengers side.  I was going to challenge that no-drop off or pickup is clearly signposted.  4) VCS mentioned my initial defence was generic and clearly copied from the internet.  It covered 1) Claimant not being in a position to state if the Defendant was the driver at the time.  2) No evidence that claimant's contract with landowner supersedes byelaws & signage isn't legally binding contract. 3) No contractual costs and interest cannot be accrued on speculative charge. I am interested to know if anyone has had success or been unsuccessful with this 'generic' defence. 5) If I should submit an updated defence to the court based on questions 1, 2 & 3.  Or if it is better to only raise these points in court? Thanks.  Any guidance would be appreciated  
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My benefits are suspended while I am investigated for benefit fraud - what happens next?


Ladychubbs
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My house was raided at six am and I was thrown in a police cell for ten hours then interviewed. I am innocent yet they are trying to say my boyfriend makes a financial contribution to my house. He doesn't he has his own place but stays at mine a lot. I pay everything myself and I can prove it.

 

I don't understand how they can stop all my benefits. I'm in arrears with everything and I don't know how I'm going to get through this! All my bank statements show I pay all my own bills.

 

My boyfriend doesn't even know who supplies my gas or electric, he doesn't even put my bin out! I do it because its my house. I have a son who is going to be 21 next week and I can't even buy him a present. My son is disabled and a handful this added stress is horrendous.

 

I thought you were innocent til proven guilty! No you are not! I'm treated as guilty and I've got to prove my innocence. Why don't they just give me a lie detector test and ask my if I am a benefit cheat?

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This sounds very frightening indeed. I am sure there will be some people looking in later on today, most them have day jobs and are only logged on in the evenings.

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This sounds very frightening indeed. I am sure there will be some people looking in later on today, most them have day jobs and are only logged on in the evenings.

 

Thank you I appreciate any help. I do not break the law and I try to do my best in life. I support vulnerable people and hate injustice. Nobody I know can believe this situation. It's a good job I'm a little feisty. I have been in touch with my local MP however I have little faith. I'm thinking of going to my local paper advising the public what the DWP do to innocent people before they have the cheek to put me in charged with something I'm not guilty of.

 

Thank you again.

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I don't know about benefit fraud - I'm a bit gob smacked that they would go as far as to turn your house over!

 

However, I can fully sympathise with a shock of a police raid in the early hours of the morning, when you are completely innocent. Back in the early 90's I suffered two raids in the early hours of the morning, by the drug squad. It terrified me, as I had no idea what the hell was going on, and I lived alone. The first time it was 6 male plain clothes guys, the second time there were some women, because they had twigged by then that I was actually a professional female living alone, but still they came and raided my home.

 

In the end it turned out that it was my next door neighbour they wanted, not me, they had got the wrong flat. Boy did they have to do some apologising, and at the time I just wanted to forget it, it was so embarrassing as well. Today I'd have them over a barrel for it.

 

I think you should shout about this from the rafters, like I say, I am gobsmacked that they have been so heavy handed. Imagine families with young children being raided like this - complete scare tactics. Perhaps you should google "Justice for Jobseekers" and let them have this story for starters - they are quite good at putting these stories in the best place.

 

I hope it all gets sorted.

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I'm thinking of going to my local paper advising the public what the DWP do to innocent people before they have the cheek to put me in charged with something I'm not guilty of.

 

Thank you again.

 

I think the general public view of people on benefits, and in the media, is that this sort of thing should be happening more frequently, if anything. People on this forum generally have the contrary view, but benefits is a very divisive issue, and certainly could draw unwanted attention to yourself.

 

Not saying it's right, (although my belief is that you've done something to put a big red target on your head), but police and DWP don't suddenly turn up at 6am with a search warrant (that is definitely intended for you, i.e not a mistaken identify etc), without having a reasonable amount of suspicion or evidence. The fact you were arrested suggests there is a whole lot more to this then simply failing to notify of a change in circumstances.

 

jackieandwayne states that (s)he got raided by the police by mistake, but other than their incompetence in locating the correct door, they will still have collated enough of a case to raid the (correct) neighbour quite legitimately.

There's also no evidence that they have raided young families with children in such a manner, so I think that is creating hysteria which is not really warranted.

 

If the OP's partner stays with her "a lot", then even if he doesn't make a financial contribution (hmm):, it is very unwise and foolhardy to fail to declare that to the DWP.

Edited by firstclassx
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I don't know about benefit fraud - I'm a bit gob smacked that they would go as far as to turn your house over!

 

However, I can fully sympathise with a shock of a police raid in the early hours of the morning, when you are completely innocent. Back in the early 90's I suffered two raids in the early hours of the morning, by the drug squad. It terrified me, as I had no idea what the hell was going on, and I lived alone. The first time it was 6 male plain clothes guys, the second time there were some women, because they had twigged by then that I was actually a professional female living alone, but still they came and raided my home.

 

In the end it turned out that it was my next door neighbour they wanted, not me, they had got the wrong flat. Boy did they have to do some apologising, and at the time I just wanted to forget it, it was so embarrassing as well. Today I'd have them over a barrel for it.

 

I think you should shout about this from the rafters, like I say, I am gobsmacked that they have been so heavy handed. Imagine families with young children being raided like this - complete scare tactics. Perhaps you should google "Justice for Jobseekers" and let them have this story for starters - they are quite good at putting these stories in the best place.

 

I hope it all gets sorted.

 

There was at least eight police officers in bullet proof vests, you would have thought they had come raiding me for fire arms or drugs! I had my 17 year old son here too. Luckily he has been well brought up and knows the difference between right and wrong so after they took me to the cells he didn't make life easy for them. He is very grown up for his age and is the man of the house he was amazing. Even thought he made it very very difficult for them to remove things of his and his brothers they had the nerve to say to me in my interview your son is an absolute credit to you! I KNOW! He is my son he isn't scared of bullies!

 

Thank you. X

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If the police raided your house in relation to benefit fraud it would be a very serious investigation into multiple identity fraud, they wouldn't do it for a simple living together allegation unless there was more to it.

 

Did any other agency accompany them, i.e. DWP or the LA?

 

Where you shown the search warrant?

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I think the general public view of people on benefits, and in the media, is that this sort of thing should be happening more frequently, if anything. People on this forum generally have the contrary view, but benefits is a very divisive issue, and certainly could draw unwanted attention to yourself.

 

Not saying it's right, (although my belief is that you've done something to put a big red target on your head), but police and DWP don't suddenly turn up at 6am with a search warrant (that is definitely intended for you, i.e not a mistaken identify etc), without having a reasonable amount of suspicion or evidence. The fact you were arrested suggests there is a whole lot more to this then simply failing to notify of a change in circumstances.

 

jackieandwayne states that (s)he got raided by the police by mistake, but other than their incompetence in locating the correct door, they will still have collated enough of a case to raid the (correct) neighbour quite legitimately.

There's also no evidence that they have raided young families with children in such a manner, so I think that is creating hysteria which is not really warranted.

 

If the OP's partner stays with her "a lot", then even if he doesn't make a financial contribution (hmm):, it is very unwise and foolhardy to fail to declare that to the DWP.

 

It is stated by the benefits agency that there are two ways to commit benefit fraud!

1, Intentionally not reporting a change of your circumstance.

2, being dishonest in order to get benefits.

I am not guilty of either. I look after my house and my children. I am not foolhardy! I know if he helped around my home and made a slight contribution I may have been foolhardy! He doesn't though. End of!

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If the police raided your house in relation to benefit fraud it would be a very serious investigation into multiple identity fraud, they wouldn't do it for a simple living together allegation unless there was more to it.

 

Did any other agency accompany them, i.e. DWP or the LA?

 

Where you shown the search warrant?

 

Yes the DWP. They were dreadful and yes they had a warrant.

Please believe me I am a decent person who doesn't break the law I have brought my boys up on my own and I'm mega proud of the wonderful things they contribute to society.

I will never ever admit to something I am not guilty of. Thank you. X

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My house was raided at six am and I was thrown in a police cell for ten hours then interviewed. I am innocent yet they are trying to say my boyfriend makes a financial contribution to my house. He doesn't he has his own place but stays at mine a lot. I pay everything myself and I can prove it.

 

I don't understand how they can stop all my benefits. I'm in arrears with everything and I don't know how I'm going to get through this! All my bank statements show I pay all my own bills.

 

My boyfriend doesn't even know who supplies my gas or electric, he doesn't even put my bin out! I do it because its my house. I have a son who is going to be 21 next week and I can't even buy him a present. My son is disabled and a handful this added stress is horrendous.

 

I thought you were innocent til proven guilty! No you are not! I'm treated as guilty and I've got to prove my innocence. Why don't they just give me a lie detector test and ask my if I am a benefit cheat?

 

That sounds about normal for a DWP investigation.

 

It would have been the police that entered the property clutching a search warrant, but it would be the DWP who was with them who would be directing them.

Normal time for a 'knock' is between 5 and 6 am.

Did you have a solicitor present.?

As you said, it is very rare to hold someone overnight in those circumstances. Presumably you were bailed to re-appear at a date to be decided?

 

Well you need an income. So the first place I would be off to would be the CAB and possibly the jobcentre.

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Ladychubbs

 

Can I ask you this

 

Before the police raid your home,did the DWP/local council invite you to a IUC/interview under caution ?

 

What where the names of Benefits where you receiving and have you been given a figure of what's been over paid ?

 

And how long has your boyfriend been living with you for....

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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Not saying it's right, (although my belief is that you've done something to put a big red target on your head), but police and DWP don't suddenly turn up at 6am with a search warrant (that is definitely intended for you, i.e not a mistaken identify etc), without having a reasonable amount of suspicion or evidence. The fact you were arrested suggests there is a whole lot more to this then simply failing to notify of a change in circumstances.

 

If the OP's partner stays with her "a lot", then even if he doesn't make a financial contribution (hmm):, it is very unwise and foolhardy to fail to declare that to the DWP.

 

Totally agree with the above

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That sounds about normal for a DWP investigation.

 

It would have been the police that entered the property clutching a search warrant, but it would be the DWP who was with them who would be directing them.

Normal time for a 'knock' is between 5 and 6 am.

Did you have a solicitor present.?

As you said, it is very rare to hold someone overnight in those circumstances. Presumably you were bailed to re-appear at a date to be decided?

 

Well you need an income. So the first place I would be off to would be the CAB and possibly the jobcentre.

 

That is nothing like a normal DWP investigation unless the serious and organised team are invovled. It certainly is not normal for a living together investigation.

 

Surveillance yes, kicking the door down police raid no. Only in extreme circumstances would this be authorised by a magistrate.

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That sounds about normal for a DWP investigation.

 

It would have been the police that entered the property clutching a search warrant, but it would be the DWP who was with them who would be directing them.

Normal time for a 'knock' is between 5 and 6 am.

Did you have a solicitor present.?

As you said, it is very rare to hold someone overnight in those circumstances. Presumably you were bailed to re-appear at a date to be decided?

 

Well you need an income. So the first place I would be off to would be the CAB and possibly the jobcentre.

 

No I didn't have a solicitor present as I didn't want some duty solicitor trying to get me off with something I am not guilty of. What I have done is found a solicitor who specialises in cases like mine. When I rang them I did state the fact I am not guilty so if you believe me then please represent me if you don't then don't. Yes I was bailed and now I'm told I'm waiting to be summoned to court! My boyfriend was also arrested but he has been dropped with no further action.

I've been to the CAB I've been to welfare rights I've been in touch with my Mp!

What the hell do I need to do to prove my innocence? I'm guilty of having a boyfriend who stays over at my house. I stay at his too!

I pay everything. I'm not a bad person. I do my best whole heartedly. I'm exhausted.

Thank you for your advice. X

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My house was raided at six am and I was thrown in a police cell for ten hours then interviewed. I am innocent yet they are trying to say my boyfriend makes a financial contribution to my house. He doesn't he has his own place but stays at mine a lot. I pay everything myself and I can prove it.

 

I don't understand how they can stop all my benefits. I'm in arrears with everything and I don't know how I'm going to get through this! All my bank statements show I pay all my own bills.

 

My boyfriend doesn't even know who supplies my gas or electric, he doesn't even put my bin out! I do it because its my house. I have a son who is going to be 21 next week and I can't even buy him a present. My son is disabled and a handful this added stress is horrendous.

 

I thought you were innocent til proven guilty! No you are not! I'm treated as guilty and I've got to prove my innocence. Why don't they just give me a lie detector test and ask my if I am a benefit cheat?

 

Thank you I appreciate any help. I do not break the law and I try to do my best in life. I support vulnerable people and hate injustice. Nobody I know can believe this situation. It's a good job I'm a little feisty. I have been in touch with my local MP however I have little faith. I'm thinking of going to my local paper advising the public what the DWP do to innocent people before they have the cheek to put me in charged with something I'm not guilty of.

 

Thank you again.

There was at least eight police officers in bullet proof vests, you would have thought they had come raiding me for fire arms or drugs! I had my 17 year old son here too. Luckily he has been well brought up and knows the difference between right and wrong so after they took me to the cells he didn't make life easy for them. He is very grown up for his age and is the man of the house he was amazing. Even thought he made it very very difficult for them to remove things of his and his brothers they had the nerve to say to me in my interview your son is an absolute credit to you! I KNOW! He is my son he isn't scared of bullies!

 

Thank you. X

 

It is stated by the benefits agency that there are two ways to commit benefit fraud!

1, Intentionally not reporting a change of your circumstance.

2, being dishonest in order to get benefits.

I am not guilty of either. I look after my house and my children. I am not foolhardy! I know if he helped around my home and made a slight contribution I may have been foolhardy! He doesn't though. End of!

 

Yes the DWP. They were dreadful and yes they had a warrant.

Please believe me I am a decent person who doesn't break the law I have brought my boys up on my own and I'm mega proud of the wonderful things they contribute to society.

I will never ever admit to something I am not guilty of. Thank you. X

 

No I didn't have a solicitor present as I didn't want some duty solicitor trying to get me off with something I am not guilty of. What I have done is found a solicitor who specialises in cases like mine. When I rang them I did state the fact I am not guilty so if you believe me then please represent me if you don't then don't. Yes I was bailed and now I'm told I'm waiting to be summoned to court! My boyfriend was also arrested but he has been dropped with no further action.

I've been to the CAB I've been to welfare rights I've been in touch with my Mp!

What the hell do I need to do to prove my innocence? I'm guilty of having a boyfriend who stays over at my house. I stay at his too!

I pay everything. I'm not a bad person. I do my best whole heartedly. I'm exhausted.

Thank you for your advice. X

 

 

 

Ladychubbs

 

Can I ask you this

 

Before the police raid your home,did the DWP/local council invite you to a IUC/interview under caution ?

 

What where the names of Benefits where you receiving and have you been given a figure of what's been over paid ?

 

And how long has your boyfriend been living with you for....

Edited by 45002

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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Ladychubbs it would be good if you answer 45002's questions then you could be helped more fully

 

As to what you can do to prove your innocence, it is more important to ask what the DWP/police/LA can do to prove you are guilty. They must have had an amount of evidence to gain a warrant, your task or that of your solicitor is to discover what evidence they hold is and then you will be in a better position to explain the reasons/circumstances that the evidence is as it is.

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I was just thinking that possibly the OP had been invited to an IUC & not responded to requests, in which case they do get the police involved. Although according to a benefits solicitor, it's more common for them to just issue a court summons if they feel they have enough evidence, so it's all a bit baffling. I guess it's possible different areas work in a different way?

I don't think they should be leaving someone with no income though, so a visit to CAB is needed for sure.

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Ladychubbs, I'm in a similar position of having to prove my innocence and I fully understand how scary this is. The details of my situation are different and I'm not sure who it is that is at the root of the problem (my property has been subject to surveillance for the past ten days, through the use of council vans. Council deny they use surveillance!).I too am very much for standing up for injustice and I suspect that this can be a cause for those in authority attempting to bring you down. I had a conversation with an individual from a government agency in which I strongly expressed my annoyance at how police had handled a particular situation, and this person clearly took huge offence. I suspect that this is where my problems stem from, but it is extremely difficult to get a straight answer from those I am contacting, namely the local authority.Hopefully, someone will come on the forum who can offer some advice for either or both of us, and readers looking in.

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I was just thinking that possibly the OP had been invited to an IUC & not responded to requests, in which case they do get the police involved. Although according to a benefits solicitor, it's more common for them to just issue a court summons if they feel they have enough evidence, so it's all a bit baffling. I guess it's possible different areas work in a different way?

I don't think they should be leaving someone with no income though, so a visit to CAB is needed for sure.

 

I did attend an interview under caution and ai told them ai had a boyfriend who stays over but I also stay at his. Thank you. They have suspended my benefit until they decide if ai am guilty or not. In the meantime I have an income of zero I haven't been charged with anything. How can they do this? Thanks.

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Ladychubbs, I'm in a similar position of having to prove my innocence and I fully understand how scary this is. The details of my situation are different and I'm not sure who it is that is at the root of the problem (my property has been subject to surveillance for the past ten days, through the use of council vans. Council deny they use surveillance!).I too am very much for standing up for injustice and I suspect that this can be a cause for those in authority attempting to bring you down. I had a conversation with an individual from a government agency in which I strongly expressed my annoyance at how police had handled a particular situation, and this person clearly took huge offence. I suspect that this is where my problems stem from, but it is extremely difficult to get a straight answer from those I am contacting, namely the local authority.Hopefully, someone will come on the forum who can offer some advice for either or both of us, and readers looking in.

Hopefully. Good luck sparkles.

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I was just thinking that possibly the OP had been invited to an IUC & not responded to requests, in which case they do get the police involved. Although according to a benefits solicitor, it's more common for them to just issue a court summons if they feel they have enough evidence, so it's all a bit baffling. I guess it's possible different areas work in a different way?

I don't think they should be leaving someone with no income though, so a visit to CAB is needed for sure.

 

Which is what i asked the OP twice now,but did not answer !

 

 

 

Can I ask you this

 

Before the police raid your home,did the DWP/local council invite you to a IUC/interview under caution ?

 

What where the names of Benefits where you receiving and have you been given a figure of what's been over paid ?

 

And how long has your boyfriend been living with you for....

 

 

 

I did attend an interview under caution and ai told them ai had a boyfriend who stays over but I also stay at his. Thank you. They have suspended my benefit until they decide if ai am guilty or not. In the meantime I have an income of zero I haven't been charged with anything. How can they do this? Thanks.

 

So that's two of the question's sort of answered !

 

 

Can I ask again this

 

What where the names of Benefits where you receiving and have you been given a figure of what's been over paid ?

Edited by 45002

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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Ladychubbs it would be good if you answer 45002's questions then you could be helped more fully

 

As to what you can do to prove your innocence, it is more important to ask what the DWP/police/LA can do to prove you are guilty. They must have had an amount of evidence to gain a warrant, your task or that of your solicitor is to discover what evidence they hold is and then you will be in a better position to explain the reasons/circumstances that the evidence is as it is.

Thank you.

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If the police raided your house in relation to benefit fraud it would be a very serious investigation into multiple identity fraud, they wouldn't do it for a simple living together allegation unless there was more to it.

 

Did any other agency accompany them, i.e. DWP or the LA?

 

Where you shown the search warrant?

 

 

How about a case then where someone started to set up a business from scratch whilst claiming JSA, AND having notified the jobcentre each signing on day of the hours worked and NET income earned.

 

This went on for about 13 months until the claimant decided to go for it and he signed off.

 

6 months later during a bad spell of no income he signed on again, but didn't close the business down. This second claim lasted approx. 7 weeks when it was then closed down.

 

Fast forward 3+ years, business is doing well when he hears that his clients are being targeted by the DWP asking questions about their dealings with the claimant over the past 5 years. His clients either refuse to talk to the DWP and/or give away little if any info.

 

After 12 months of hearing of these attempts by the DWP to get people to talk, he is taken out of his bed at 5 am, arrested, taken to the police station and kept there for 10 hours. His home & garage, office and car were 'turned over' completely.

 

He stood accused of failing to notify the DWP of the correct amount of earnings each week/fortnight. They said that his actual earnings exceeded his JSA each and every week.

 

Result, the claimant was told that there were no charges to answer as the DWP had miscalculated his income, they assumed his gross fees were his income, whereas it is the net figure that they should have used.

 

So yes they do 'turn over' people like this for a simple failure to notify.

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Thank you.

 

That's wasn't the answer we where looking for...

 

You not told us if you had a letter from dwp/local council asking you to attend a "Interview under caution" and did not go ended up with you been arrested at a later date.

 

You wont tell anyone what type of benefits you where receiving before payments where suspend !

 

And not told us how long has your boyfriend has been living with you for !

 

 

DWP and Local council has a duty in law to protected tax payers money and do suspended payments pending criminal investigation and prosecution,they must have a lot of evidence then in your case.

 

You clearly have some think to Hide and it will be just a waist of time asking you any more questions and wont be surprised if some fellow CAG member feel the same....

Edited by 45002

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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