Pe court claim recd fri 12/07/13 help please

[Ricipoohs1]

Ok here goes...

 

I am one of those pestered souls who has followed the advice of ,which worked for one 18mths ago,but those peeps are on my case,

like 1000's of others it transpires (do the courts not need the resources to fight the good fight for genuine cases of injustice????)

 

The papers came on Friday(12/7/13) & I intend to fight,

so I am goggle eyed from ALL the relevant reading.

I am not conversant in law, but feel unless I employ someone who is I could end up talking drivel should it get to that stage.

 

Firstly

when I send back the form Acknowledge of Service,

what is the difference in ticking 'I intend to defend all of this claim'

to 'I intend to contest the jurisdiction'?

And what should I state in my defence on this initial form,

 

the truth as a 50+ lady sees it, or state meaning of breach on contract etc etc

quoting paragraphs of of obviously 'not my words'

I am quite articulate as I had previously defended my O/H in an employment tribunal (and won!)

Or do I leave that until(or if) it actually gets to court?

 

Is it enough to state the facts as I see them, & surely wouldn't get as far as court for a 21min overstay in a 'Free Car Park' with no POSSIBLE means of making a payment for extra mins unless an ANPR cameras now have the technology to take our well earned pennies from us!

 

: ALSO this car park,which I note as other posters have stated as the Aldi car park who now apparently have in store(link removed) leaflets

forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77891[/url] (see the note re my health status)

 

This car park has 4 stores ALDI/BLOCKBUSTERS/POUNDSTRETCHERS/ABAKHAN/ and after a few phone calls today,

the other store confirm that PE manages all their parking,

so therefore if ALDI allow 1hr 30mins for their shoppers ( it was 1hr 20min in my case) how can you possibly shop in more than one shop?

& days before Xmas.....why would there be queues I wonder?:xmassmile

 

Aldi last min shop ( I am a woman,enough said:D) still have receipts timed @ 14.55 I was 'snapped' leaving @15:00:07 and arrived at 13:18:46,

and waited a good 5 mins for a space as it was peeing it down,

so no one wanted to get in their cars,

although they might have if they knew they would get charged for trying to keep dry

I with bags of Xmas shopping:mad:,anyway I digress.

 

I browsed in the fabric/craft shop,as you do and made purchases in £stretchers(didn't keep rec as it was a cash transaction)

I asked for some help to carry stuff to the car and the reason for this maybe relevant from what I have read.

 

So does the 1hr 20min mean you can not go into another store,therefore it equates to 20mins in each if you can...it can take me that just to pick one film!

 

My first thought was to ask for the Calibration Certificate to ensure that their time lines are accurate etc ???

and then offer to pay the equivalent fee pro rata to 21mins parking the multistory car to compensate

in real terms for the consequential loss of business to the land/store owner,not themselves,

as I was not parked in their terms 'illegally' (yellow line/disabled bay/hatched lines etc etc)

 

so surely they can not claim for damage/trespass ?

 

Is it also true that this 'fine' would be exactly the same should you have parked there say in excess of 4 hours,if so surely the'fine' is obviously disproportionate ????

 

Another point is that if you are affected long-term debilitating medical condition (with or without blue badge)

should be allowed double the time to shop.

 

I am a sufferer and could present medical evidence to substantiate this,at the moment recovering from spinal surgery

and undergoing pain management & further surgery(hence needing items from £stretchers carrying)

but don't want to play the sob story just have the rights due to me....am I being unfair?

 

Sorry if I have waffled,

blame the medication & dare I say the stress(not to mention the menopause,phased return to work,but definite brain fog & the addition of blonde highlights...

.to cover the grey obviously!!)

 

On a serious note I really need some advice ASAP before I make a right plonker with a £150 21 min parking Invoice,

I wouldn't let my bank get away with charging me that for an unauthorized overdraft now would I

 

Thanks one and all & apologies if you see this copied on other advice sites, I need all the help I can get!

 

OH AND BY THE WAY, DON'T SHOP THERE ANY MORE AND USE PROPER CAR PARKS THAT YOU PAY FOR THE TIME THAT YOU STAY,OR GET IT ON LINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE POSTAL/DELIVERY COMPANY INSTEAD!!!

Edited July 16, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[citizenB]

You do not need contest the jurisdiction unless it is in Scotland and you are in England or the other way round !

 

You have a timeline for claims issued out of MCOL

 

Issue date + 5 days for service = XX + 14 days to acknowledge claim = XX + 14 days to submit defence.

[Crocdoc]

I this claim from Parking Eye.

[DBC]

Yes it is. She mentions PE in her first post.

[Ricipoohs1]

Quick update

Called into the Aldi store in question & the store manager stated as long as I had proof of purchase on the date in question she could cancel the claim,even at this stage.....quite pleased....I think....as long as this is honored,do I need to communicate this to the court ?

But another interesting item reared it's head when I came home to collect copies of papers for the store manager that I noted that the court claim form states 'in relation to the parking charge issued 21/12/12 for parking without authority on private land' The so called offence occurred 17/12/12 and this is not mentioned anywhere on the court documentation, is this grounds for a legal loop hole??? or am I clutching at straws??

Well I am off to Aldi after the 2 hour limit on the road which I parked, so as not to enter the alleged parking area again....

I shall keep you informed

[citizenB]

You might need that in writing from the Aldi manager.

[Crocdoc]

If you can get the support of store or company management PE will be told to drop the claim, there will be no hearing.

 

PE don't like letters or complaints sent to management on landowners, a very good reason to do it on every occasion

[Ricipoohs1]

THANKS BOTH, I have asked the area manager to confirm in writing but as I have to send my response pack back to the court, do I still say that I am disputing the whole claim and note that the Aldi Manager intends to have the case cancelled? and what about the differing dates, do I have any elbow with that should the Aldi store be a non starter ???

[ericsbrother]

reply to their claim denying all of it and say that a detailed defence will be submitted in 14 days. this gives you 28 days to get the letter and also any proof you were elsewhere on the date of the alleged breach. This will give PE no opportunity to amend their particulars to correct the date error and if they try to later on you can then question the reliability of any of their evidence..

[Scouse Magic]

If PE drop the case, they have to do it on the correct court form and demonstrate that they have paid the defendant any costs incurred..

 

......Most small claim Judges don't like these companies....

..Isnt it terrible that in this day and age, one cant even go shopping without some trying to fleece you...

 

...Personally I'd go all the way to court espescially if you can produce receipts..

 

..The spirit of these things are that the Landowners (Not PE) invite you to shop and spend money, so that is your Authorisation from the landowner..

..PE may very well manage the site but they have no legal right to offer or enter into any contract with any motorist (VCS Ltd V HMRC) (VCS Ltd V Ibbottson.)

 

They have no right to say you had no authorisation.

 

. Their charge is a penalty for breaching their terms & conditions (Excel Parking Services V Hetherington Jakeman.)

 

They have no right to issue Court Proceedings in the name of the Landowner....

 

...Please make a note of all your costs in defending this matter (Loss of Earnings Max £90 per day)

as you have had to go back and forth to Aldi so claim your travel/ petrol, any postage, taxis to court, stationary / photocopying etc..

 

.Dont be scared, the small claims track is very informal and the judge will be impartial if you represent yourself.

 

...The law is a wonderful thing xx

[Ricipoohs1]

Grateful Thanks for all the assistance,it is appreciated!

 

I have spent the last 5 days glued to this thing,

I am on my last week of sick leave due to spinal surgery I really wanted to chill & potter now the initial healing is over,

but feeling SO STRESSED + HARASSED I should be relaxing outdoors(can't see the lap top screen outside!)

 

I have written this email to local Council planning this morning just in case they want to throw any light on the matter & making me feel better just for letting off steam:-x...

Good Morning,

As per a phone call this morning (18/7/13 11.20am with JJ ?)

I would be grateful if you could provide planning Permissions granted for the retail car park at the Corporation Retail Park Preston, and also the name of the land owner.

The reason for my request may sound petty, but I suspect you maybe asked this on a regular basis due to the debacle being caused by Parking Eye

issuing Court papers for petty over stays (21mins in my case days before Xmas!)

 

I have been following & researching all the information on the web, and the information from yourselves

could help my case (and many,many others!) in a fair trial & prove that shoppers are being unfairly treated,

whoever in their right mind would sanction 1hr20mins on a retail park with 4 stores!.

 

This is by no means a criticism of the Council,

but just to ascertain if the planning permission is being flaunted in respect of parking.

 

Also the name and contact details of the land owner, only to voice my opinion that this situation is causing & the ultimate loss of business for the units on their site.

 

I understand that parking is at a premium & there will always those who flaunt the system,

but as a person with medical conditions that slow you down, it becomes a problem using the much fairer multistory and/or

Pay Station parks( and someone who does not want to go down the Blue Badge route just yet!) when you have to carry shopping some distance......

 

So as well as my above request, which I would be grateful for ASAP as I have a limited time to respond to the court papers,

 

PLEASE,PLEASE PLEASE could recommendations for PAY STATION or MANNED car parks be given serious consideration in future.

 

ANPR sites do not give the genuine shoppers means to pay for accidental overstay,

they are impersonal and do not say what they do on the tin!

 

Rant over (sorry) not meant as a personal vendetta,

but a vent at the frustration this is causing for 100's of people,young,old & in-firmed, if you have min to Google, you will be amazed.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this but would appreciate

ANY information to help my cause,so in turn I can assist others with the same predicament .....

Grateful Thanks,

........................

 

Just another thought....Everyone is homing in on Aldi,

I don't have a problem with this but the signage does not name ANY of the four stores on the retail park in question, and they all tell me PE manage the parking, so does that not point out that it is the land owner that is at fault???

 

Just seen this on a FB page... interesting

******STOP PRESS********

 

A motorist challenged the issue of a parking ticket, issued by Parking Eye for overstaying the 2 hour period at the Rheidol Retail Park.

 

The appeal eventually went to POPLA (the independent appeal body for parking on private land) and last week the appeal was UPHELD and the POPLA ordered Parking Eye to cancel the parking ticket

 

Although the motorist had appealed on a number of grounds the parking ticket was actually overturned on one as follows:

 

The motorist alleged that "Parking Eye does not have authority to contract with the motorist at the site in question. The motorist requires proof of ownership of the land or any contract from the landowner providing such authority"

 

The independent assessor at POPLA found in the motorist favour as follows (quote):

 

"Membership of the Approved Operator Scheme does require the parking company to have clear authorisation from the landowner,

if itself is not the landowner,

as to their role in relation to the parking control and enforcement.

 

 

This is set out in the BPA Code of Practice. However, as with any issue, if the point is specially raised by an appellant in an appeal, then the operator should address it by producing such evidence as they believe refutes a submission that they have no authority.

 

In response to such a point, the Operator stated that

“we have written authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices at this site from the landowner (or landowner’s agent).”

 

 

The Appellant had requested that a copy of the contract between the landowner and the Operator be provided.

 

 

The Operator has not provided a copy of this contract or any other proof tantamount to the same.

 

 

I therefore find that the Operator has failed on this occasion to adequately rebut the Appellant’s submission that it does not have the necessary authority to enforce the parking charge.

 

I have allowed the appeal on this ground and therefore do not need to visit the Appellant’s remaining grounds of appeal.

 

Taking these matters together the PCN was not properly issued.

 

The appeal is allowed.

 

Matthew Shaw

Assessor"

1Share

[ericsbrother]

another posting here today highlights a different reason for PE losing out at appeal.

 

It is clear that with PE,

ignoring is not the way forward

 

but appealing to POPLA for every conceivable reason

 

as they dont seem keen on showing they have a "clean pair of hands"

 

it is reasonable to assume that they dont actually have the contracts in place that allow them to collect the monies they are claiming.

 

Remember this for when they threaten the court summons and claim they are applying for a Norwich Pharacal Order

when you wont tell them who was driving at the time.

[Ricipoohs1]

After my efforts

 

I thought had been rewarded by a call from the store manager saying the case would be dropped & I asked for it to be confirmed in writing,

 

it was agreed it would,

 

but after I contacted Aldi via FB private message and

 

today had a call to ask if I had appealed in the correct manner, that would be a NO then!

 

I was advised even though I had proof of spending in store PE would drop the case but I had to pay their costs amounting to £50 !!

 

as I should have followed the correct channels in the specified time scale,

 

I have no one to blame but myself I either pay their costs or go to court.

 

The Aldi rep was clearly scripted in the approach and although very pleasant ( I was a little upset ) to me gives the impression

that they are hand in glove & had no hesitation in suggesting that the landowner & the parking permissions would be all above board????

 

I was thinking do I pay Dick Turpin at £1 a week after the have cancelled the 'fine' for their many overheads or have my day in court,hmmmmmmm

[citizenB]

Hold on, if it doesn't go to court, how can they demand their costs ?

[Scouse Magic]

After my efforts

 

I thought had been rewarded by a call from the store manager saying the case would be dropped & I asked for it to be confirmed in writing,

 

it was agreed it would,

 

but after I contacted Aldi via FB private message and

 

today had a call to ask if I had appealed in the correct manner, that would be a NO then!

 

I was advised even though I had proof of spending in store PE would drop the case but I had to pay their costs amounting to £50 !!

 

as I should have followed the correct channels in the specified time scale,

 

I have no one to blame but myself I either pay their costs or go to court.

 

The Aldi rep was clearly scripted in the approach and although very pleasant ( I was a little upset ) to me gives the impression

that they are hand in glove & had no hesitation in suggesting that the landowner & the parking permissions would be all above board????

 

I was thinking do I pay Dick Turpin at £1 a week after the have cancelled the 'fine' for their many overheads or have my day in court,hmmmmmmm

 

It's not a "Fine" ..They do not have the statute to use such a word.....You seem a very educated person.... Go to Court !! and yes where does this £50 suddenly come from...

[Ricipoohs1]

Well guess what arrived today...

 

... remember I had taken the relevant paperwork into the local store in question & they said the Area Manager would cancel,

 

then I had the phone call from 'higher up' the chain after my Priv FB message to say ,

 

yes it would be cx if I paid PE their £50 costs!?!?

 

also stating that the area manager had no authority to cancel notices...

 

.I got a letter 1st class post from the local area HO stating (with the ref no) that it had now been cxd with PE!

 

Ho Hum does that mean I should expect another letter from higher up stating that the area manager has made an error as she has no authority,

that won't look too good in court,

but there again it's NOT Aldi taking me to court is it:-x

 

-Scouse-Magic, Thanks for calling me 'educated' a lovely compliment, I am just on a mission in fairness.

 

I have been advised on other sites that I wouldn't stand a chance if I didn't quote chapter & verse in my defence,

my defence is I am not a criminal or a lawyer and do not profess in spouting legal cases

I only know if my bank had charged me £85 for going .21p o/d I certainly wouldn't take it lying down!

 

I personally do not know why the SCC are entertaining all this drivel,

if this escalates as it appears it is doing, there will be queues 10ft deep.

 

I've beaten cancer, I am NOT letting PE beat me!

[ericsbrother]

get back on to Aldi and ask for sight of the agreement between them and Parking Eye that enables PE to demand any money from you,

let alone a fixed sum of £50 for costs.

 

Ask them cost of what?

 

do Aldi charge PE £50 for each customer they manage to lose them because of their stupidity.

 

You can tell them that this agreemnt is central to any claim against you and your defence against PE

and as you are supposed to have agreed to this contract you would like to see it, even if retrospectively.

 

Point out that refusal to supply a copy may result in you asking for a Norwich Pharmacal Order as part of your defence

(demand the contract paperwork from PE anyway, there is a form to fill in, it used to be called "discovery" but is nor N--something or other).

[Ricipoohs1]

****letter recd from PE re court proc & Fee to cancel****

I have recd a letter today from PE with ref to cancelling the claim,

 

but I have to pay £50 within 7 days otherwise it will proceed to court,

 

Is there anyway I could scan/upload this letter rather than typing the contents for your information.

I would of course remove any reference to my case.

 

In short their breakdown for costs are as follows:

Cost of issuing Court proceedings: £25

Cost of obtaining RK details from DVLA £2.50

Postage:£2.50

Admin costs:£20

 

As I was about to respond to court papers(defend)

I don't know what to do now as PE also state

'Should this matter be settled in court, PE firmly believes that all of the associated costs will be found to be owe by you,

especially as PE gave you ample opportunity to appeal this Parking Charge'

 

Will the court think that PE have acted fairly & favorably and award them the case???

 

As I planned to defend as a lay person(even though I am quite impressed with some very key points in my defence)

[ericsbrother]

no-one forced them to make fools of themselves by firing off a court summons.

 

Note that they have not paid the allocation fee yet so they can stop it any time they want and they wont suffer costs for doing so.

 

The £20 admin fee is a laugh, that is a penalty in itself as they cannot justify it as it is part of their establishment costs and thus unclaimable.

 

No the court wont look upon PE favourably for trying to screw you for non-existent costs,

 

they will probably do the opposite and consider PE time wasting if they proceed and lose.

 

Exactly how many stamps did PE use in this after sending you the summons? 1? Then postage is 60p.

 

You may have gathered that they are now clutching at straws.

 

PE didnt give you ample opportunity to appeal the charge as they have no mechanism that is an accepted code of practice to do so.

 

Respond to the court papers straight away,

even if only to say their claim is denied in its entirety and that further evidence will be submitted within the 14 day period allowed.

 

This will force PE to pay the allocation fee knowing full well that you now have evidence from more than

1 source that their claim has no substance otherwise they wouldnt have offered to drop the claim at all.

 

Hit them with their own stick.

[Ricipoohs1]

SORRY THIS POST APPEARS TO HAVE DUPLICATED

 

 

****letter recd from PE re court proc & Fee to cancel****

 

I have recd a letter today from PE with ref to cancelling the claim,

but I have to pay £50 within 7 days otherwise it will proceed to court,

 

Is there anyway I could scan/upload this letter rather than typing the contents for your information.

I would of course remove any reference to my case.

 

 

In short their breakdown for costs are as follows:

Cost of issuing Court proceedings: £25

Cost of obtaining RK details from DVLA £2.50

Postage:£2.50

Admin costs:£20

 

As I was about to respond to court papers(defend)

I don't know what to do now as PE also state

'Should this matter be settled in court, PE firmly believes that all of the associated costs will be found to be owe by you,

especially as PE gave you ample opportunity to appeal this Parking Charge'

 

Will the court think that PE have acted fairly & favorably and award them the case???

 

As I planned to defend as a lay person(even though I am quite impressed with some very key points in my defence)

[Scouse Magic]

****letter recd from PE re court proc & Fee to cancel****

I have recd a letter today from PE with ref to cancelling the claim,but I have to pay £50 within 7 days otherwise it will proceed to court,Is there anyway I could scan/upload this letter rather than typing the contents for your information.I would of course remove any reference to my case.

In short their breakdown for costs are as follows:

Cost of issuing Court proceedings: £25

Cost of obtaining RK details from DVLA £2.50

Postage:£2.50

Admin costs:£20

 

As I was about to respond to court papers(defend) I don't know what to do now as PE also state 'Should this matter be settled in court,PE firmly believes that all of the associated costs will be found to be owe by you,especially as PE gave you ample opportunity to appeal this Parking Charge'

Will the court think that PE have acted fairly & favorably and award them the case??? As I planned to defend as a lay person(even though I am quite impressed with some very key points in my defence)

 

Hi There I think the site team will come in here and best advise you how to scan up your letter.....In a recent similar case involving my partner and Michael Sobell of Graham White Solicitors fame, he tried to drop the case by writing to the court...This was refused as he did not use the correct form or compensate the Defendant for costs associated with defending the matter up to that point, and that is a requirement of the court...... It seems to me that PE are trying to recover monies for a claim they had no authority to bring in the first place, you should be charging them your current costs ie petrol stationary postage loss of earnings, as for their costs, they are the costs of running their business not the land owners. They should be making you an offer, not the other way around.

 

Also if they insist on trying to recover their ' costs' they would have to issue a new claim which would incur them a further cost of £25.00!!!

 

You MUST and I repeat MUST contact the court and check first hand that the case has been dropped as this may be a ploy to dupe you as if still active and you dont defend you will lose by default.

 

If you think I have been helpful please add to my reputation by clicking the star button at the bottom of my post...Thanks

[Ricipoohs1]

Sorry I didn't know about the star thing:|

 

I did ring the court,

that's why I know that Aldi can not cancel the case,

it has to be PE and they are not going to do it without my £50 squiddies,

the plot thickens.

 

I think that they think ,

that I will pay up and shut,

 

hmmmmmm I don't think so,

 

think I will stand up and be counted,

 

if I lose I will be able to assist other hopefully in their fight for their rights!

[dx100uk]

poof

 

and one appears..............

 

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

[Scouse Magic]

Sorry I didn't know about the star thing:|

 

I did ring the court,

that's why I know that Aldi can not cancel the case,

it has to be PE and they are not going to do it without my £50 squiddies,

the plot thickens.

 

I think that they think ,

that I will pay up and shut,

 

hmmmmmm I don't think so,

 

think I will stand up and be counted,

 

if I lose I will be able to assist other hopefully in their fight for their rights!

 

 

Hi again, In that case have you defended it? and have you received your allocation questionaire?

 

You MUST defend this.....They do NOT own the land and cannot bring proceedings against you without the land owners authority......Ask to see their contract, ( see my thread...TCP send cheque and apologise).

 

Kind Regards SM

[Ricipoohs1]

SM No allocation questionnaire as I have until 27/7 to return/respond on line to the Court Claim form.

 

 

I am going to defend,

as far as I am concerned,

forget all the technical gubbins,

 

 

my defence draft so far covers a lot of relevant points,

re contract/landholder/compliance to BPA code of practice.

 

 

I am not going to spout endless quotes & cases etc.

The courts will soon comes realise that many,

many cases of ordinary people will be dragged through small claims courts for these' breaches' not everyone will sit for endless hours in front of a computer researching the legalities of PNCs, so will either have taken all the ignore advice & which unfortunately will include Court Papers.

 

 

hence the long list of poor souls on their web site who have not taken on and lost, but have defaulted on the grounds of ignorance.

 

 

I don't want to be one of those figures.

If the court for whatever reason decide against me,

it will be for a valid reason & I know that I have tried my best & can hold my head up,

no denying I will feel more than a little chuffed if I did win.

 

I DO have documentary proof that Aldi Area HO have ,as far as they are concern cancelled the charge with PE

 

I have NO documentary evidence of the phone call, from Aldi Main HQ that they are willing to cancel the case, IF I pay PE £50 for their incurred costs.

 

I DO have a letter from PE,titled -WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

-Acknowledging that their client(Aldi) has been in contact with regard to my case, and had I contacted them as a genuine patron of one of the stores,they would have assessed the case & cancelled the charge!!

 

 

but cutting to the chase states (as in my previous post)

they warn that if these costs are not paid within the next 7 days

(although the letter was typed 19/7 posted 22/7 and rec'd 23/7 when is the 7 days up??)

the case will remain and that their solicitors cost will be added to the overall cost.

 

If I ask PE or Aldi for a copy of the contract, are they obliged to do so?

I take it that's where the Norwich PO comes into play.

 

 

Would I have to apply for that or just state it in my defence.

Right enough time spent on this today

,ironing needs to be done.

 

 

I so should have had a chilled week as I return to work next week after 8 weeks off for spinal decompression,stressed? me No!!!!