use of cctv car around school areas **All PCNs Revoked**

[violet0sky]

Obviously this depends on the size and layout of the school. We drive round the car park to the stopping zone (two cars) and hand our children over to the teachers, or collect them there at the end of the day. Then continue round and go out. You don't have to use the car park but I usually do because it's less hassle than getting a ticket even if the school will appeal for you. You are all moving in the same direction and as they see you in the queue your child is lined up and ready to jump in at the stopping zone and nowhere else. You are not allowed to park. The teachers are on a rota for car park duty, and only have to do it for half an hour once or twice a month so it's not too bad for them either.

 

This is unfortunately this end of the school has no vehicle access - it has steps that lead down to the school playground.

The front of the school is even worse for parking!

Walking any distance also causes me problems - I rarely do this school run as another mum picks up for me - I have a son at a school the other side of town! On the odd occasion I do need to collect both children, I need to get away as quickly as possible so my son isn't left standing around on his own for too long waiting for us

[violet0sky]

Obviously this depends on the size and layout of the school. We drive round the car park to the stopping zone (two cars) and hand our children over to the teachers, or collect them there at the end of the day. Then continue round and go out. You don't have to use the car park but I usually do because it's less hassle than getting a ticket even if the school will appeal for you. You are all moving in the same direction and as they see you in the queue your child is lined up and ready to jump in at the stopping zone and nowhere else. You are not allowed to park. The teachers are on a rota for car park duty, and only have to do it for half an hour once or twice a month so it's not too bad for them either.

 

This is unfortunately this end of the school has no vehicle access - it has steps that lead down to the school playground.

The front of the school is even worse for parking!

Walking any distance also causes me problems - I rarely do this school run as another mum picks up for me - I have a son at a school the other side of town! On the odd occasion I do need to collect both children, I need to get away as quickly as possible so my son isn't left standing around on his own for too long waiting for us

[violet0sky]

Sorry, but where does it say Violet "repeatedly did it too even after being told by the ceo"? I thought the first she knew of the PCNs was when she received them in the post. I didn't see anywhere that she'd already been told by a ceo not to park there.

 

Thank you Daniella - I did indeed state that all 3 tickets arrived well after all 3 'contraventions'.

[violet0sky]

I have just looked at your photographs, and I just don't see where you are supposed to park. It's a great pity the school can't get agreement from the small number of residents for cars to enter the school grounds, drop off their children and exit. That would be a lot less chaotic than people having to park on yellow lines.

 

Jamberson says above that you can stop to let out a passenger and escort them into a building, but does that also work if you park your car to enter a building and collect a passenger?

 

Either way, I think this needs to go back to the local parking control, not PATAS.

 

The area where only residents can drive is for the safety of the children. Its basically a huge 'safe' area for the children to come out of school and be met by their parents.

[Desperate Daniella]

Can I ask what the contravention was as stated on the tickets? Your OP mentions 'stopping' rather than 'waiting'. This suggests that it is not a SYL offence.

 

Hi.

The notice reads:

"Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force"

 

I'm just going back to what it says on the notice, but Jamberson has said you can drop off a passenger and escort them into a building if you park on a yellow line, and we're waiting for him to come back to see if picking up a passenger is also allowed.

 

The restrictions are clearly aimed at parents picking up their children because of the time restrictions. Where does the Council suggest you park?

 

There are two questions here: What are you going to do about the tickets, and secondly what to do in the future.

 

I'd appeal the tickets on the basis that they are apparently discretionary - some cars get them, but others parked at the same time do not - and cannot be so, and all the other points you have quoted, and I'd ask the school what their view is. I'm just going to have another look at the photo.

[Desperate Daniella]

Presumably there are other parents who have been caught too?

 

The only way I can see round this is for the children to be lined up behind the barrier, and for those picking them up to drive up to the double stop lines and then go, kind of, straight across/turning to the right and stop for about 30 seconds for your child(ren) to jump in. If you all move up in a queue at the same time then I can't see that you are stopping or parking. The school needs to be involved here and the teachers will have to do pick up duty. If they get walkie-talkies then one teacher can be round the corner seeing the cars arrive, take the names and call them through, and the second teacher can shout for the children to come to the front of the queue.

 

I'm curious as to why there is only a restriction in the afternoon. Why isn't there a restriction for morning drop off if it is all about child safety?

[Desperate Daniella]

The only way I can see round this is for the parents to queue, not stopping but moving slowly to the double stop lines, going straight across, kind of, and then turning right and stopping for about 30 seconds while their child/children get in. The school needs to have the children behind the barriers, and two teachers need walkie-talkies. One teacher is on the road where parents join the queue and they take the names and call them through to the second teacher, at the barrier, who calls the children to the front.

 

If the queue gets too long and isn't moving then parents will have to go round the triangle.

 

I am curious as to why there are only restrictions in the afternoon. Why not for the time of morning drop off if this is all about child safety?

[Jamberson]

I'd appeal the tickets on the basis that they are apparently discretionary - some cars get them, but others parked at the same time do not - and cannot be so,

 

The OP has already appealed and had his appeal rejected. If he appeals again it will mean forfeiting the discount, and effectively appealing double the charge. And if he appeals on the grounds you suggest, then he is 99 percent sure to lose and end up doubling his problem.

 

There is a possible route regarding escorting the passenger, but it's up to him to open up on that, describe what was happening on the day, and how long he was parked for etc. On the points he's raised so far, it's a losing hand.

[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry, to save me reading the whole thread again, has the appeal gone to PATAS?

[violet0sky]

 

I'm just going back to what it says on the notice, but Jamberson has said you can drop off a passenger and escort them into a building if you park on a yellow line, and we're waiting for him to come back to see if picking up a passenger is also allowed.

 

The restrictions are clearly aimed at parents picking up their children because of the time restrictions. Where does the Council suggest you park?

 

There are two questions here: What are you going to do about the tickets, and secondly what to do in the future.

 

I'd appeal the tickets on the basis that they are apparently discretionary - some cars get them, but others parked at the same time do not - and cannot be so, and all the other points you have quoted, and I'd ask the school what their view is. I'm just going to have another look at the photo.

 

 

There are restrictions in the morning as well. The times are 8am-10am and 2pm-4pm.

I think I have said already, I do not understand the 2-4 timing, as school finishes at 3.30pm, and after school clubs finish at 4.30pm. If it is really about child safety, why isn't the afternoon restriction 3pm to 5pm?

The tickets - I have already started the ball rolling to go to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. I believe the reduced ticket fee has to also be offered at the end of the Tribunal hearing if unsuccessful.

In the future - I will need to leave work even earlier so that I can bag the closest 'allowed' parking spot to the school! - I'll end up having to be there well before 3pm!!!!

[violet0sky]

 

I'm just going back to what it says on the notice, but Jamberson has said you can drop off a passenger and escort them into a building if you park on a yellow line, and we're waiting for him to come back to see if picking up a passenger is also allowed.

 

The restrictions are clearly aimed at parents picking up their children because of the time restrictions. Where does the Council suggest you park?

 

There are two questions here: What are you going to do about the tickets, and secondly what to do in the future.

 

I'd appeal the tickets on the basis that they are apparently discretionary - some cars get them, but others parked at the same time do not - and cannot be so, and all the other points you have quoted, and I'd ask the school what their view is. I'm just going to have another look at the photo.

 

 

This is a very good point - I hadn't thought of it as 'discretionary' - But you are right!

[violet0sky]

Sorry, to save me reading the whole thread again, has the appeal gone to PATAS?

 

I believe PATAS is for London area only.

Please correct me if I am wrong

[violet0sky]

I've just noticed - all 3 PCNs state I was parked on the long straight road!

The little triangle bit is actually part of the other road leading up to it - according to Google maps and RAC .

I'm guessing this may well be significant?!?!?!

[violet0sky]

I've just noticed - all 3 PCNs state I was parked on the long straight road!

The little triangle bit is actually part of the other road leading up to it - according to Google maps and RAC .

I'm guessing this may well be significant?!?!?!

 

and the main doc of the rejection letter from the council has the wrong car registration number on it!

[Jamberson]

There are restrictions in the morning as well. The times are 8am-10am and 2pm-4pm.

I think I have said already, I do not understand the 2-4 timing, as school finishes at 3.30pm, and after school clubs finish at 4.30pm. If it is really about child safety, why isn't the afternoon restriction 3pm to 5pm?

The tickets - I have already started the ball rolling to go to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. I believe the reduced ticket fee has to also be offered at the end of the Tribunal hearing if unsuccessful.

In the future - I will need to leave work even earlier so that I can bag the closest 'allowed' parking spot to the school! - I'll end up having to be there well before 3pm!!!!

 

That's not the case - they will usually require you to pay the flat rate of the PCN. Any discount is just to encourage prompt payment and once it expires it's gone.

[Jamberson]

I've just noticed - all 3 PCNs state I was parked on the long straight road!

The little triangle bit is actually part of the other road leading up to it - according to Google maps and RAC .

I'm guessing this may well be significant?!?!?!

 

In that case, you can ask your local council to tell you precisely what the official name of the road is where you parked. If they tell you something other than what is on the PCN, you have a line of appeal.

[sailor sam]

I believe PATAS is for London area only.

Please correct me if I am wrong

 

Here is the one for other areas;

 

http://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/site/index.php

 

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[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry, I didn't realize PATAS was only for London but the TPT seem to follow the same nine grounds of appeal.

[violet0sky]

I thought I would let you know that the Adjudicator has found all 3 penalty notices INVALID

Decision letter attached.

[Desperate Daniella]

That is absolutely fantastic. Great result.

 

Have a lovely weekend.

 

DDxx