Harassed by pheonix then JBW Bailiffs, re 2006 council tax debt.

[debtwoes]

Hi All, I am being harassed by Bailiffs and wondered what I could do about it.

 

The Debt is in relation to outstanding council tax with Hounslow Council.

 

Last year a bailiff turned up out of the blue at the wrong address although we are paying council tax at our real address

and had been visited there by the council tax dept.

The debt was from 2006.

 

I asked the council for any evidence that a court order was issued and that they sent us this order.

The council have said they have no evidence except an entry on their electronic files.

 

I honestly cannot remember if 2006 tax was paid or not but I do have on record paying 2007 tax

and confirming with the council then that all outstandings were settled before moving to a new address.

 

1) I rang the bailiff from Phoenix Commercial Collections. I said to the bailiff I dispute the debt. He said "When the Police come..."

I said "What did you say about the Police"... he hung up.

I called him back but he denied making the statement although I pointed out to him that I recorded what he said.... he hung up again. I have the recording.

 

I complained to the council, they took the case back.

After an exchange of letters and agreeing to a payment plan, they charge me double what was agreed.

I missed the next payment, received a statement from the council then proceeded to make regular monthly payments.

 

2) Another bailiff turns up for 2012 council tax. Chandlers claim in their letter that it is a criminal offence to refuse to provide Chandlers my financial info.

I ask them to confirm this in writing... so they did. I didnt provide any information but paid up anything owed to close the case.

 

3) A new bailiff from JBW turns up for the 2006 council tax even though I have made regular payments for the last months. The bailiff turned up at 6am and handed a letter to me.

 

The letter said notification of attendance, however on the letter there is a levy charge for £29.00

and signed with an initial with the words (certified bailiff) next to it.

I asked the bailiff for name & ID, he said "JBW"... I asked for his ID.... he ran away!

 

I have complained to the Bailiffs. On the phone (recorded),

that I want the bailiffs name and certified number, they refused,

I asked for their complaints procedure, they refused.

I complained to the council, but they refused to do anything about it.

 

I am actually annoyed now from the harassment..... the lies and the bailiffs and council not following procedures.

 

What can I do about this?

[dx100uk]

did the council have an LO for the 2006 ctax and what date was it?

 

dx

[debtwoes]

Thanks for the reply

 

Honestly I do not remember receiving one because of the time period, they did not chase it for 6 years. The council said they have no copies or anything physical to show me, they just said it's on our computer records.

[brassnecked]

Put them on strict proof of any debt, also reminfdthem that without proof they cannot enforce, and that you will be submitting a Formal complaint.

[debtwoes]

I'll do that and see what happens, any other advice?

 

I've informed the Council back in October and the current bailiff that a) Revoked Implied License, b) Notify them I am vulnerable as suffering from medical condition including diagnosed depression, 3) sole registrant at the house as a single mother 4) I have sold all my goods

[dx100uk]

no LO means its SB'd I bet.

 

they cant use bailiffs.

 

send the council this.

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

[debtwoes]

Thanks DX100uk

 

They said they had a LO... in electronic format.

 

I will proceed with asking above questions, what do I do when they answer it? lets assume they answer these questions but still cannot produce physical evidence of issuing the LO?

[dx100uk]

what date is the LO

 

they expire on 6yrs

 

dx

[debtwoes]

Its been over 6 years!

 

I was under the impression that LO did not expire, and if it did, could they not get another one?

 

Where could I find that official information source so I can pass it to the council or bailiff

[debtwoes]

Oh Damn... I have made payments for this debt after the 6 year limitation

[dx100uk]

I might be slightly wrong read this:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?374433-What-happens-after-a-Court-Liability-order&highlight=expired+LO

[ploddertom]

Providing the Council obtain a Liability Order within 6 years of the monies being due then it is never Statute Barred.

[dx100uk]

thanks pt.

fool rushed in

dx

[debtwoes]

Ok Thanks guys,

 

I was under the impression that LO is not subject to Statue Barred hence the reason I negotiated to make payments to the Council.

 

On another note,

 

a) I feel they should provide evidence of a LO being issued which they have not,

 

b) I feel the council is complicit in the harassment by the bailiffs and not following regulations, e.g. No 14 day notice + (still sure the bailiff acted illegally claiming it was a criminal offence to not supply the private company financial details and refusing to supply certified bailiff ID and refusing to furnish details if complaints procedure)

 

c) I can guarantee the LO is electronicly signed by anonymous JP see

 

When the (QUANGO) CSA or a Council issues its own pre stamped summons (criminal /quasi criminal)

 

Gateshead Justices,ex p.Tesco Stores Ltd [1981] Q.B.470,DC.

a summons must be issued in accordance with Justice Clerks Rules 2005 (S.I.2005 No.545) The granting of summonses is more than a rubber stamping exercise. The person issuing the summons must be authorised to do so and must scrutinise the information to satisfy themselves that the requirements are met and a summons properly granted. See Tesco Stores Ltd [1981] Q.B.470,DC.

ARCHBOLD 4-77 PAGE 177 Magistrates criminal practice.

 

‘The Anonymous JP’.” ‘Regina v Felixstowe’

“The Court is required to provide this information to the parties in the case, and any others having an interest in the case (i.e. witnesses etc.) by virtue of the judgement in the case ‘Regina v Felixstowe’ justices ex parte Leigh and another, Queens bench division c 1984/5. Held by Lord Justice Watson that :- There is a right to know who sits in judgement, and denial of that right is unlawful, unwarranted and inimical to the proper administration of justice, further that there is no such person known to Law as ‘the anonymous JP’.”

 

To conclude, I am telling the council I cannot afford to pay lump sum and I can only pay what was agreed otherwise my ability to pay current tax liabilities is affected (invited them to look at my earnings, they will see I have to borrow money every month to survive)

[ploddertom]

In my view they must provide you with proof the debt is owed or otherwise they could chase all & sundry - which reminds you owe me £20 for for a loan I gave you 6 years ago, not that we ever wrote it down or anything!

[debtwoes]

Ok thanks guys,

 

I will follow that route and see what happens, as for the bailiff, what do i say to them? In essence, I'm telling them its uneconomical for them to pursue the debt and leave my property (I have issued a fee schedule of £1000 an hour for trespassing)

 

In regards the alleged £20 debt by ploddertom, would you mind if I repaid it in instalments via the donate button?

[MagnaCarta]

Watch it Plodder, you owe me £150 +£90 costs from 6 years ago, it must be true, I have it stored electonically on my Speak 'n Spell.

 

You better pay up soon or the enforcement boys will be round from Rainbow Debt Enforcement.

 

[ploddertom]

Watch it Plodder, you owe me £150 +£90 costs from 6 years ago, it must be true, I have it stored electonically on my Speak 'n Spell. Hope it is the VTech version!

 

You better pay up soon or the enforcement boys will be round from Rainbow Debt Enforcement.

 

 

PT

[debtwoes]

What would I do if all the Council say "we have it on record" and they dont produce anything else?

[brassnecked]

What would I do if all the Council say "we have it on record" and they dont produce anything else?

They need written proof, screen dumps of the account etc, in the absence of a Liability order and proof of such they may be micturating against a force 10 gale, possibly.

[debtwoes]

They need written proof, screen dumps of the account etc, in the absence of a Liability order and proof of such they may be micturating against a force 10 gale, possibly.

 

So what would my next step be in the case of no proof?