Got a PCN for overwrritten VRM in Newham,need to fight

[go6imir]

Hi everyone,I'm a new member and I really need a help with that case,been looking around for any information but cant really sort it my self as it is a bit not that common case

Will be very thankful if I can get any opinion as in this case I'm sure I'm absolutely correct and have the right to fight it

Lets tell the short story:

I did use that day a visitor parking permit to park the car in front of our house,we just had change on the road restrictions and just became a permit zone but we were planning to move out of the area soon because of my son school and I decide not to apply for resident parking permit and to buy for £5 10 visitor permits and use in case I need for me or any visitors,cause mostly my car was on a way in the restricted hours and I didn't need one.But that day I came back home for 2 hours and I did write by hand the details correct(you can see on the files).When I decide to go back to work I found the ticket on the windscreen so basically I thought may be the warden didn't see the permit and wrote me ticket,so I did write to them next day to explain that and I did send them photos.They reply to me (i can attache the letter in the next post)and said that they are aware of the permit but they are not happy of the way I wrote my VRM so that why I need to pay to them £130.This happen in front of my door,I had permit,I was really mad.I reply to them but the letter may be was more emotional then documentary but in the end I was insisting to go to adjudicator to decide if I'm right or not.I didn't get any answer more then 4-5 months and cause I was really mad to Newham finally we moved to other borough and I really forgot about this matter but one day we went back to look for any letters and I found out that the case escalate and was at adjudicator and been decide to pay the amount in 28 days so this end period was luckily 3 days after I found it.I did call the PTAS to ask what are my options and they advise me to pay the PCN and then write to them and explain everything and that's what I did.I did pay and now is the time to explain,but because I didn't reply on time and the case become more complicated for me then should be I would like to make a really strong representation so I can appeal the ticket.The case its really strange I agree but I see the comments about Newham and their way of work in here:http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/newham_council_slammed_over_5_700_parking_fine_1_1958415 and I wont let this go easy,so pls help

Forgot to say the car been exported and sold 2 months after the ticket is issued that's why I did show it its important in this case to show the real VRM,but will be more careful to hide any personnel and not relevant information in future I do post.I can upload the first letter From Newham council the first answer I got to explain what I've done wrong for them to get a ticket but there is not enough space here to load it,may be there is an option, don't know.Anyway probably is good to do will look for a way,but what is funny in this,I used all 10 permits exactly the same way,written the same way cause I got the answer from my first letter just a week or two before I move out from this address and that's how and when I knew I did overwrite it but I didn't get any other tickets,what is to criteria to decide that this is penalty,you don't write it on desk or machine,you do it in your car,on your knees while sitting in the car,this is really unfair.and if all the rest is correct and I can not find any other grounds to appeal and to the adjudicator the only one question will be to decide that this is overwritten or not,what criteria he will use to decide right. Dont know, that's why I think it is complicated for me.Thanks for any further help to everyone

By the way I did pay on time the PCN,and I have been advised from PATAS to do so and that's why I did,and because the appealing period expired not by my fault,I couldn't reply and act on time cause I move out from the address 3-4 months after my last letter to Newham counsil been send and they do not reply to me.I was ensured that I can appeal from PATAS just need to pay on time and explain the delay.I wouldn't pay otherwise.There is few other letters I found after been send to the old address but I cant upload to show.Think I'm still having the option to appeal with adjudicator and I want to use it,I didnt appeal yet and I want to,did try few months to find information on different sites but cant find with this matter exactly that's why came to this point to ask for any opinion.Thank you

The question is what I can do and write to appeal this PCN-if this doesn't help me for some other reason like time delay or my fault of writing it that's not a problem cause I already paid and I'm not doing it for money but believe me the try is important,other people like me will see what can be done and will look for advice and this site will help them in their case even when they google it will be easy to find it and find a way to appeal and sick advice from you guys and you will help them to stop the wrong politic of the government regarding this matter cause its getting worst and worst and if you helping to 10 today to appeal the unfair tickets are may be 1000 more then usual so the only one way is to spread this info and give people chance and challenge to fight against it.

Edited March 25, 2013 by go6imir

[sailor sam]

Sheesh! You need to put your post into paragraphs. It's too much hard work to read it as it is! Also the images are too small.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[go6imir]

Hi everyone,I'm a new member and I really need a help with that case,been looking around for any information but cant really sort it my self as it is a bit not that common case

Will be very thankful if I can get any opinion as in this case I'm sure I'm absolutely correct and have the right to fight it

Lets tell the short story:

 

I did use that day a visitor parking permit to park the car in front of our house,we just had change on the road restrictions and just became a permit zone but we were planning to move out of the area soon because of my son school and I decide not to apply for resident parking permit and to buy for £5 10 visitor permits and use in case I need for me or any visitors,cause mostly my car was on a way in the restricted hours and I didn't need one.But that day I came back home for 2 hours and I did write by hand the details correct(you can see on the files).When I decide to go back to work I found the ticket on the windscreen so basically I thought may be the warden didn't see the permit and wrote me ticket,so I did write to them next day to explain that and I did send them photos.They reply to me (i can attache the letter in the next post)and said that they are aware of the permit but they are not happy of the way I wrote my VRM so that why I need to pay to them £130.This happen in front of my door,I had permit,I was really mad.I reply to them but the letter may be was more emotional then documentary but in the end I was insisting to go to adjudicator to decide if I'm right or not.I didn't get any answer more then 4-5 months and cause I was really mad to Newham finally we moved to other borough and I really forgot about this matter but one day we went back to look for any letters and I found out that the case escalate and was at adjudicator and been decide to pay the amount in 28 days so this end period was luckily 3 days after I found it.I did call the PTAS to ask what are my options and they advise me to pay the pcn and then write to them and explain everything and that's what I did.I did pay and now is the time to explain,but because I didn't reply on time and the case become more complicated for me then should be I would like to make a really strong representation so I can appeal the ticket.The case its really strange I agree but I see the comments about Newham and their way of work in here:http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news...fine_1_1958415 and I wont let this go easy,so pls help

 

Forgot to say the car been exported and sold 2 months after the ticket is issued that's why I did show it its important in this case to show the real VRM,but will be more careful to hide any personnel and not relevant information in future I do post.I can upload the first letter From Newham council the first answer I got to explain what I've done wrong for them to get a ticket but there is not enough space here to load it,may be there is an option, don't know.Anyway probably is good to do will look for a way,but what is funny in this,I used all 10 permits exactly the same way,written the same way cause I got the answer from my first letter just a week or two before I move out from this address and that's how and when I knew I did overwrite it but I didn't get any other tickets,what is to criteria to decide that this is penalty,you don't write it on desk or machine,you do it in your car,on your knees while sitting in the car,this is really unfair.and if all the rest is correct and I can not find any other grounds to appeal and to the adjudicator the only one question will be to decide that this is overwritten or not,what criteria he will use to decide right. Dont know, that's why I think it is complicated for me.Thanks for any further help to everyone

 

 

By the way I did pay on time the PCN,and I have been advised from PATAS to do so and that's why I did,and because the appealing period expired not by my fault,I couldn't reply and act on time cause I move out from the address 3-4 months after my last letter to Newham counsil been send and they do not reply to me.I was ensured that I can appeal from PATAS just need to pay on time and explain the delay.I wouldn't pay otherwise.There is few other letters I found after been send to the old address but I cant upload to show.Think I'm still having the option to appeal with adjudicator and I want to use it,I didnt appeal yet and I want to,did try few months to find information on different sites but cant find with this matter exactly that's why came to this point to ask for any opinion.Thank you

 

The question is what I can do and write to appeal this PCN-if this doesn't help me for some other reason like time delay or my fault of writing it that's not a problem cause I already paid and I'm not doing it for money but believe me the try is important,other people like me will see what can be done and will look for advice and this site will help them in their case even when they google it will be easy to find it and find a way to appeal and sick advice from you guys and you will help them to stop the wrong politic of the government regarding this matter cause its getting worst and worst and if you helping to 10 today to appeal the unfair tickets are may be 1000 more then usual so the only one way is to spread this info and give people chance and challenge to fight against it.

[go6imir]

Sorry,I know its a bit hard,its hard for me too, that's why I'm posting and trying to give as much as possible info so the members who wants to give right opinion to make it easier.This is other photo, don't know why this ones are too small!

[renegadeimp]

To post images on CAG, you need to convert them to PDF and edit out all personal info, reference numbers and barcodes.

[sailor sam]

From what I can see of the permit, it appears the first digit has been 'altered' but I cannot really tell for sure.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[go6imir]

From what I can see of the permit, it appears the first digit has been 'altered' but I cannot really tell for sure.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

yes its B,been in a rush and did write ugly but can not be mixed with other letter,anyway they do not say why and what,just it is overwritten

[go6imir]

Got it,thanks,no probs about the car details its been sold and exported 1 year ago

[sgtbush]

you have not indercated what zone you are in too i think

 

sorry i read it properly now no need to circle a zone i dont think

 

but the b to me looks like an s which is changes to a b

Edited March 25, 2013 by sgtbush

[go6imir]

Yes looks ugly,cost me till now £130,what is the chance in that situation,what can be done,is that is it?

[Jamberson]

To have an adjudication case, you need to apply within 28 days of a Notice of Rejection being issued.

 

To get a Notice of Rejection you will need to have

 

1. Received a Notice to Owner, and

2. appealed against it at that stage, and within 28 days.

 

Did either of those things happen? And did you get a Notice of Rejection?

[go6imir]

Hi,thanks for the question,yes I see and I can say,I have never received Notice to Owner and Notice of rejection from Newham,I can see that I have only one letter from them after I send my first informal representation and in this letter they explain me that is for overwritten VRM this is on the 8.02,and the next letter from them is Order for recovery on the 19.06.I moved out the address on the 1.03 and had 3 months royal mail redirection.I did sell the car but I did let know in my 2 letters to them that I'm moving home any moment witch was normal after all,the council have my new address for the council tax reason to pay me back the balance.I tought all finished and they didnt want to go ahead If I had rejection letter on time this might not happen,I was ready to go to the end,they might wanted exactly this,because I didn't reply on time the case was send to adjudicator and I didn't appeal and then I was given direction to pay £130 in 28 days and I paid on the 25th day when I found this letter,I can imagine what would happen if I didn't but I did contact PATAS explain this and they said to pay and then write appeal with explanation why I didn't do on time and then they will consider it. Dont think is a problem to appeal if you never did,so Ill try.I know I made the case more difficult to win with all that time delay and I paid for it,but want to try to see what is the chance even if I'm going the difficult way.at least that will give me and others experience and knowledge what to do in similar case in future cause this one its not a regular case and cant find anywhere

[Jamberson]

the next letter from them is Order for recovery on the 19.06.

 

Do you mean June 19th?

 

You have 21 days from the Order for Recovery to contest it. If this was issued last June, I don't see you can contest it now. It would have to be a late application on a paid PCN - I think they will just throw it out.

[green_and_mean]

You have paid thats the end of it, the advice you got on Pepipoo was correct you can join as many forums as you like but at the end oh the day if you have paid the advice will be the same.

[go6imir]

So PATAS basically lie to me,thought I have better chance that way if I pay to them on time and do as direction say,I shouldn't pay,the order was directed on my wife name(even the surname was wrong the address was old) cause she was the owner at that time,the car is sold and exported,we move to other address and area,the new car is on my name,I just made a big favor to this guys,that will be a big lesson,that was long time ago,but thank you guys,this will change the way I sort this problems in future and will definitely not do any favors anymore and I wont be so easy target to this bastards next time for sure. Thats just other sample of what we shouldn't do and what we shouldn't except and if we believe we are right never pay never.Thanks for the advises.I might still write to Patas and Newham,just because to let them keep me in a record that I made them a gift once

[Jamberson]

I suppose the best thing to learn is that if you want advice on what to do, don't ask PATAS. Ask here instead.

[green_and_mean]

So PATAS basically lie to me,thought I have better chance that way if I pay to them on time and do as direction say,I shouldn't pay,the order was directed on my wife name(even the surname was wrong the address was old) cause she was the owner at that time,the car is sold and exported,we move to other address and area,the new car is on my name,I just made a big favor to this guys,that will be a big lesson,that was long time ago,but thank you guys,this will change the way I sort this problems in future and will definitely not do any favors anymore and I wont be so easy target to this bastards next time for sure. Thats just other sample of what we shouldn't do and what we shouldn't except and if we believe we are right never pay never.Thanks for the advises.I might still write to Patas and Newham,just because to let them keep me in a record that I made them a gift once

 

Whilst I appreciate English is not your first language your story is hard to understand you say it went to the adjudicator and you lost and when you rang PATAS they told you to pay, which is correct. Yet you also state you never appealled to the NTO which makes the entire saga confusing,unless you decide to post ALL the documents not just a few cropped images their is little else we can say.

[go6imir]

ok.thats all of them I have,let me know if you need anything else,sorry thought I have no chance after the last few comments.It was 1 year ago,the main question is even If i can appeal,what ground I can put in?Thats why I post all This not to try to explain my hard to understand story and to practice my second language.What is the criteria for overwritten,who decide that the Vrm is overwritten or just ugly written.Regarding the documentary part,I wasn't replying on time neither or correct so I cant appeal on that ground I think,what else can be seen and done?Let me know if you need anything else

[Jamberson]

You can't appeal. There are time scales to appeal and this was a year ago. You're too late to argue the case, and in any case you've paid it now. Best to forget about it.

[green_and_mean]

If you had posted the PATAS letter to start with you would have not wasted everyones time!!!

 

Enforcement Authority has referred a Witness Statement made by Mrs Boyanou saying she made representations to the Enforcement Authority but did not receive a Notice of Rejection. The Enforcement Authority states no representation was received to the Notice to Owner. The statutory process is as follows: 1. The Enforcement Authority serves a Penalty Charge Notice. 2. The Enforcement Authority then serves a Notice to Owner on the person it believes to be the owner or the hirer of the vehicle. 3. The recipient then has 28 days to make representations to the Enforcement Authority. The Enforcement Authority may disregard any representations not made within this time. 4. The Enforcement Authority must then serve a notice in response rejecting or accepting the representations. 5. If the Enforcement Authority serves a Notice of Rejection, the recipient of the notice then has 28 days to appeal to the Adjudicator. This procedure must be followed correctly to contest liability and ultimately appeal to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service. Failure to either make representations or to appeal within the required time means there will be no right to contest liability further, however strong the merits of the case. The Enforcement Authority sent a Notice to Owner on 13 April 2012. Because no representation was received the Authority did not issue a Notice of Rejection. I accept Rosen Boyanou made informal representations before receiving the Notice to Owner but this communication cannot form formal representations in response to the Notice to Owner. Mrs Boyanou was asked to clarify when she sent the representation and to provide a copy and has not done so within the time allowed. I am satisfied she has no right of appeal and is liable for the Penalty Charge. I have made this direction because Mrs Boyanou failed to follow the required procedure and has no right of appeal. I have not and cannot consider the merits of the case. Direction: 1. Anne Marie Boyanou to pay the Penalty Charge of £130 by 3 December 2012. 2. If the penalty charge is not paid by then the Enforcement Authority may serve a Charge Certificate increasing the penalty by 50% Payment to be made to London Borough of Newham Parking and Traffic Enforcement PO Box 1125 Warrington Cheshire WA55 1EJ Telephone 020 8430 2000