ATOS Medical hell

[mr_mastiff]

Had my appeal tribunal today and had it refused. Will be appealing this decision today. I have already asked for a statement of reasons behind the decision. I have also issued a 14 day notice on Atos pending legal action.

 

I am so sorry to hear of your tribunal decision. I am sure everybody on the forum wishes you luck with with both your appeal and legal action.

[phillyg]

Thanks for replies. If I lodged my appeal last year in November can the new descriptors that were introduced in april be used?

[Nystagmite]

As I understand it, no. It has to be based on how you were at the time. I assume that would also apply to the descriptors.

[phillyg]

So would that be deemed as a point of law if they used the new descriptors?

[**Margaret**]

: phillyg:

 

Got a bit confused earlier in this saga. Putting Atos to one side for a moment, were you in receipt of employment n support with the work related activity component and pursuing an appeal for the support component?

 

Doesn't matter whether a decision about limited capability for work/work related activity is made by a Jobcentreplus decision maker or a tribunal panel. All such decisions are made in accordance with the limitations caused by the claimant's condition(s) and the legislation in force on the date of the determination by Jobcentreplus.

 

Regs in force last October/November were;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/228/made

 

For an award of the support component you needed to meet one of the schedule 3 descriptors. It's not clear whether you argued that your subsequent diagnosis was affecting continence at the time of your work capability assessment. If you did and the tribunal disregarded it, the statement of reasons should say why.

 

Some initial guidance as to errors or can be found at;

 

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/appealing-upper-tribunal-against-first-tier-tribunal-decision

 

Should you feel that your condition has deteriorated since last year you can apply to Jobcentreplus for a new decision (supersession) about your limited capability for work related activity. Instead of, or as well as, considering further appeal.

 

What are you hoping to gain from your legal action against Atos?

 

Best wishes with whatever you decide to do next, Margaret.

Edited October 1, 2013 by **Margaret**

[phillyg]

I want to bring justice against Atos Healthcare for the treatment that they are bringing to thousands of people within the uk who are being denied benefits of which they are more than entitled to. To add insult it would seem my DLA decision has been made on Tuesday to remove my high rate mobility and middle rate care as from next year. It just gets better. Losing the will to fight but one must carry on.

[**Margaret**]

: phillyg:

 

Well, I applaud your sentiments if you've the energy and financial resources to keep going. Whilst I wouldn't want to tread on your solicitor's toes my experience of complaints to Atos is that they're hard work for little, if any, reward. Starryeyes got them to admit mistakes with basic anatomy and misinterpretation of mental health descriptors. But she didn't get so much as an apology, not even when her subsequent tribunal was upheld. Doesn't mean Atos are off the hook though. A self-help group that I'm part of are as politically active as we can be.

 

Is your disability living a routine renewal at the end of a fixed award? If so, the onus is on disability n carers to show, on a balance of probability, that you need less care and less help with getting around. However, given your recent knock back, you'll need to judge the pros and cons of further appeal at the moment. Risk the awards you've got or wait until you're reassessed for personal independence:?:

 

Margaret.

[phillyg]

: phillyg:

 

Well, I applaud your sentiments if you've the energy and financial resources to keep going. Whilst I wouldn't want to tread on your solicitor's toes my experience of complaints to Atos is that they're hard work for little, if any, reward. Starryeyes got them to admit mistakes with basic anatomy and misinterpretation of mental health descriptors. But she didn't get so much as an apology, not even when her subsequent tribunal was upheld. Doesn't mean Atos are off the hook though. A self-help group that I'm part of are as politically active as we can be.

 

Is your disability living a routine renewal at the end of a fixed award? If so, the onus is on disability n carers to show, on a balance of probability, that you need less care and less help with getting around. However, given your recent knock back, you'll need to judge the pros and cons of further appeal at the moment. Risk the awards you've got or wait until you're reassessed for personal independence:?:

 

Margaret.

 

sorry if I have not been clear. I was awarded high rate mobility and middle rate care in 2012 and it was till 2014,that was the award.

 

I had to fill out the form that they ask you to fill out. I called today and they said that after my claim ends in January 2014 my claim will be ended as it has been disallowed by the decision maker!

 

I am waiting for the letter to confirm this. She said I will be able to ask for a reconsideration.

[phillyg]

Margaret I did not get the point you made of risking my award as they are taking it away in January anyway? I think im going to need some advice very soon as this really is getting on top of me.

[**Margaret**]

: phillyg:

 

Wasn't clear whether you'd been awarded lower components of disability living.

 

As you say, if disability n carers have terminated your award completely you've nothing to lose by appealing their decision. You'd have to be ultra unlucky for an appeal to a disability living tribunal to affect your employment n support. But when you get it, you should check the judge's statement of reasons for inconsistencies between the decision about your employment n support and your grounds of appeal for disability living.

 

In my opinion it's not worth asking for a reconsideration. Until the law changes later this month, a formal written appeal via letter or GL24 form automatically includes a reconsideration by a different decision maker.

 

What's welfare rights like in your area? If you can find it, some professional advice may help you to cope.

 

:hug:Margaret.

[phillyg]

I don't know what is going on with the welfare system in this country anymore. I have been more than cooperative with the DWP by keeping them informed of my health situation and feel that it is all for nothing. When I first claimed esa it was because I was sacked from work due to capacity as I was unable to work. It turned out I was sacked unfairly.

 

I was then told by the dwp I was fit for work. Obviously I appealed that decision. I was then placed in the support group and had been for three years until the medical with atos.

 

Not at any point was I told what had changed or what they thought had changed. I have spent the last 4 and a half years more or less begging for a benefit that I am entitled to. It sickens me to the core.

 

I have severe constant back pain. I have burning feet numbness from waist down awaiting Emg. I have severe leg tremors of which affects my walking causing further pain to the back. The tremors in my legs make me feel as though I have walked miles as the muscles continue to contract viciously. On top of this I have the lazy bladder with the inability to feel when I need to go. Then there is the diagnosis of panic disorder with agoraphobia along with depressive disorder.

 

I just can't win whatever I do im made to feel like crap.

 

The funny thing is the dwp have been repaid every benefit I have had because of my ongoing pi claim due to my accident.

 

Very annoyed and very upset.

[phillyg]

Oh yes and the tribunal judge and doctor said because I can handle an appointment with doctors etc then I am able to engage in work related activities. I said the doctor's appointments are to try and enable me to be pain free of which im not. But they are there to help me find diagnosis and treatment.

 

They went on to say because I can attend my sons parents evening this also makes me capable.

 

I mean what is all this about? They asked me how I handle changes to my routine? I swear and I get angry I throw things and punch walls when times get hard. What did they want me to say?? did they want me to say I want to kill people and cause damage to property???

 

Absolute monsters. Next time maybe I need to throw the tribunal bundle and ask her if that is enough for you!!

 

Come on im not bonkers im human at the end of the day yet they seem to think someone who suffers constant pain,someone who pi###s themself is an idiot.

 

Have some dignity.

[phillyg]

Ok here is an update. Received letter from DLA stating I need help with nothing!! States I dont suffer panic and anxiety although a psychological report handed to them a mere couple of weeks ago states depressive disorder with agoraphobia and panic disorder!!! States I have no walking issues although I have sent them a neurologist letter stating a severe disability with leg tremor. Then it goes on to say I have no issues with bladder although I wet myself. I states I can cook and wash even though I can't get in the bath and wash dry and dress lower torso as I can't bend.

 

Another letter arrived from atos with an offer of consolatory payment as an apology without prejudice. Should I accept?

 

Help!!!!

[Nystagmite]

Oh yes and the tribunal judge and doctor said because I can handle an appointment with doctors etc then I am able to engage in work related activities. I said the doctor's appointments are to try and enable me to be pain free of which im not. But they are there to help me find diagnosis and treatment.

 

But generally, you know the doctor well enough and you generally have little / no choice to attend doctors appointments. I don't think I know anyone who has doctors appointments most weeks either.

[**Margaret**]

: phillyg:

 

'...... was I told what had changed ......'

 

The significant change was when Government moved the goalposts closer together in March 11. :evil: Then added a few extra hoops earlier this year. Employment n support allowance is about how well one can perform, or not, prescribed activities that are relevant to any workplace. Very little to do with diagnosis and nothing to do with specialist opinion or capability for a particular job. The current very harsh criteria for an award of employment n support with the support component can be found at;

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf

(pages 10 -12 and 25 -27)

 

From a tribunal's viewpoint, the continence descriptor usually needs confirmation from a doctor or continence nurse. Doctors and hospital appointments don't count as social engagements but answering the phone, children's activities and shopping do. And yes, if there's a next time describe exactly what happens when an unexpected change causes a panic attack or unacceptable behaviour.

 

The disallowance of your disability living sounds like computer generated pages of text. Did you have an Atos assessment? Or did they ask your doctor for a report? Start your appeal by keeping a diary of exactly what help you need, why and how often. Also, a statement from a carer often helps.

 

That consolatory offer from Atos:?: Think you have to be realistic about what you can get from them and whether you can cope with further aggro. We've another contributor to CAG who's been playing letter tennis for over a year.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?337937-IB-to-ESA-migration

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[phillyg]

: phillyg:

 

'...... was I told what had changed ......'

 

The significant change was when Government moved the goalposts closer together in March 11. :evil: Then added a few extra hoops earlier this year. Employment n support allowance is about how well one can perform, or not, prescribed activities that are relevant to any workplace. Very little to do with diagnosis and nothing to do with specialist opinion or capability for a particular job. The current very harsh criteria for an award of employment n support with the support component can be found at;

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf

(pages 10 -12 and 25 -27)

 

From a tribunal's viewpoint, the continence descriptor usually needs confirmation from a doctor or continence nurse. Doctors and hospital appointments don't count as social engagements but answering the phone, children's activities and shopping do. And yes, if there's a next time describe exactly what happens when an unexpected change causes a panic attack or unacceptable behaviour.

 

The disallowance of your disability living sounds like computer generated pages of text. Did you have an Atos assessment? Or did they ask your doctor for a report? Start your appeal by keeping a diary of exactly what help you need, why and how often. Also, a statement from a carer often helps.

 

That consolatory offer from Atos:?: Think you have to be realistic about what you can get from them and whether you can cope with further aggro. We've another contributor to CAG who's been playing letter tennis for over a year.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?337937-IB-to-ESA-migration

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

 

Many thanks for responses. Margaret I never had an assessment but I think my gp was asked for a report. The funny thing is all my appointments have mostly been with other specialists so he really would not know much. I only really see the gp when I need more meds.

 

The atos offer was a couple of hundred. This was without an involvement of a solicitor. I think I will throw the towel in on this one.

 

I have enough to deal with especially with the atos appeal and the esa appeal to the upper tribunal once I have received the statement of reasons.

 

I will just wait and see what response I get to esa50 I had to fill out.

 

Many thanks

[phillyg]

At least they responded within the 14 day notice I gave them at atos.

[phillyg]

: phillyg:

 

'...... was I told what had changed ......'

 

The significant change was when Government moved the goalposts closer together in March 11. :evil: Then added a few extra hoops earlier this year. Employment n support allowance is about how well one can perform, or not, prescribed activities that are relevant to any workplace. Very little to do with diagnosis and nothing to do with specialist opinion or capability for a particular job. The current very harsh criteria for an award of employment n support with the support component can be found at;

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf

(pages 10 -12 and 25 -27)

 

From a tribunal's viewpoint, the continence descriptor usually needs confirmation from a doctor or continence nurse. Doctors and hospital appointments don't count as social engagements but answering the phone, children's activities and shopping do. And yes, if there's a next time describe exactly what happens when an unexpected change causes a panic attack or unacceptable behaviour.

 

The disallowance of your disability living sounds like computer generated pages of text. Did you have an Atos assessment? Or did they ask your doctor for a report? Start your appeal by keeping a diary of exactly what help you need, why and how often. Also, a statement from a carer often helps.

 

That consolatory offer from Atos:?: Think you have to be realistic about what you can get from them and whether you can cope with further aggro. We've another contributor to CAG who's been playing letter tennis for over a year.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?337937-IB-to-ESA-migration

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

Margaret there is something playing on my mind as it is now 1.30am and I can't sleep worried about everything that has gone on over the last few months.

 

I received a letter from the DLA dated 29th September stating they have looked at my claim after myself asking for a reconsideration. I did not ask for a reconsideration I just sent in medical reports for their records.

 

The letter stated that my claim from 2012 to 2014 remains the same. So in other words the decision was to keep me at higher rate mobility and middle rate care.

 

Then a few days later I received the decision on my renewal to remove the benefit in its entirety!

 

This does not make sense. So in September they agree that I am entitled but as soon as January 2014 arrives im no longer entitled. Surely if this was the case then they would remove my claim now if they presume I have no problems?

 

Does this make sense to you or anyone else reading this post?

 

Regards

[**Margaret**]

: phillyg:

 

'...... but I think my gp was asked for a report.' And almost certainly that's the problem, especially if s/he isn't your principal healthcare professional. Many general practitioners simply don't know what their patient's care needs are, or whether their mobility's improved since the accident that triggered an initial claim for disability living.

 

Get as much medical confirmation of your conditions as you can. Either direct from the specialist or via a subject access request to your general practitioner. A tenner gets copies of everything that's on the computer. Reactions from your specialists will vary but you've nothing to lose by asking for letters to support your claim.

 

Use a separate sheet, or several, for section 8 of a GL24 to explain that;

 

Cos of a spinal injury you need help to shower and dress.

 

Cos of agoraphobia you can't use public transport without a chaperone.

 

Or whatever, with examples (if you've got them) of what happened last time you tried to go it alone. Keep a diary, as it happens, of the help you need for seven days.

 

Good luck, Margaret.

 

Best guess is that disability n carers treated your updated medical evidence as a request for a new decision (supersession) about your entitlement to the higher rate care component, and rejected it. Before a different decision maker considered your renewal application. Or they've got themselves as confused as you are. Only way you're going to know for sure is to contact them. If whoever answers the phone seems equally unsure, ask for a call back from a decision maker.

 

You can't do anything until Monday, so here's some , Margaret.

[joeski]

i think atos should face criminal charges for the evil things they have done, sick and disabled people are dieing and nobody seems to care