Northhampton CC

[appo07]

Hi,

I was going to send an email to dlc, but they have several email address on their website so not sure if my email would just be pasted around.

With the court deadline for defense being 1/4/13 (33 days from 27th Feb), would i still have time to write to them and receive their reply before the deadline; also how does the bank holidays affect the deadline (29th and 1st).

The letter will be posted today 1st class recorded or should I send it SD, I've pointed out the dates, and stated that I will need to have their response no later than 27th, so I can send it to court before the original deadline 1/4/13.

 

Ive now found the email address for dlc litigation's department, so I've also sent an email stating the same to [email protected]

 

 

 

Thank you,

Edited March 23, 2013 by appo07

[citizenB]

Responding to S.O.S give me a few moments.

[citizenB]

 

The poc states:

 

"The Claim is in respect of a credit facility (Credit Card Ac No), provided by TSB Bank plc at the Defendants request on (date 2006). The agreement was subsequently defaulted. Failure to meet requests for payment resulted in the account being terminated. On (date 2011), all legal and beneficial interest for the monies was assigned to Hillesden Securities Ltd. The Defendant was duly notified in writing of the assignment and that a balance of 2760 was due. The balance of 2760 remains owing from the Defendant."

 

Thank you,

appo

 

 

Ok, can you please answer a couple of questions for me.

 

Did you ever receive a Default notice from the Original Creditor - if so, do you still have that ?

 

I see you were paying via a DMP until 2009 - what happened that you stopped payment ?

 

There appears to be some confusion over the date of the start of the agreement - they claim the account was started in 2006 - you are saying that it was started in 2002.

 

Is there a discrepancy with the account number as well ?

[citizenB]

Was there also a difference in the type of account.. eg

 

In 2002 was it a Visa card and in 2006 it changed to Master Card ?

[citizenB]

It appears to me, that when you started your account in 2002 - they likely obtained your signature on "a" document. Then somewhere along the line, they decided to change the account from Visa to Master Card - without obtaining a new signature. This is not permitted.

[appo07]

Thank you, citizenB,

 

I can not find any paper work or default notice regarding this account other then the my 77/78 request and their reply, all under the same account number as on poc. The expense form that I prepared for the DMP only shows me having one credit card with TSB, like you say, the account must have changed from visa to master card. (the photocopy they sent is for the 2002 visa). Without any of the original paperwork I can confirm if the account had been changed from the original visa with or without my knowledge. However, I must have been aware of the account number, because My 77/78 request was made with that acc no.

 

I came out of the DMP to try and arrange payments with the creditors directly, due to the total debts being very large and only a small amount the monthly payment was being sent to the creditors, the bulk went as fees, also when a CCJ claim form was sent for one of the debts they just told us to admit it and and sent the form to them. This just caused more worry, as we then expected more CCJs.

 

Thank you,

appo

[citizenB]

Ok.

 

Then I think you need to make this point in your defence. Can you let me think about it and I will try and put something together for you for tomorrow (Sunday).

[citizenB]

Can I just clarify.

 

You have received a response to your s78 request which confirms the account was opened in 2002. The claim form implies the account was opened in 2006. Are the Account numbers on the copy agreement and the claim form the same or are they two different account numbers.

[appo07]

Can I just clarify.

 

You have received a response to your s78 request which confirms the account was opened in 2002. The claim form implies the account was opened in 2006. Are the Account numbers on the copy agreement and the claim form the same or are they two different account numbers.

 

I would say they are two different accounts.

 

The first response from s78, TSB sent a letter with the account number (same as the poc (55--)) , say they have included a reconstituted version my agreement, and goes on to state that they don't need to include all details, and that they can leave out what they want. The three pages of double sided paper is just a computer typed document without any agreement number, the only link to me is my name and address is typed on the first page.

Also there is one line of text that reads "These Conditions are effective from 1 October 2002"

 

One week later they sent a second letter saying that they didn't after but have anyway decided to find my original signed agreement. again letter refers to (acc no 55-- same as poc)) but the photocopy is dated 2002 and date stamped 2002, right at the top of the copy there is a heading "TSB Gold CC direct acceptance form and agreement (at the side of this there is a 16 digit number visa number starting with 49) and the visa card is ticked not the master card.

 

Thank you,

[AndyOrch]

Hi appo

 

CB has asked I look in you....Hillesden Securities Ltd will have little knowledge or history of the account makeup when purchasing the debt or be unaware of your section 78 request or the OPs default in complying.Hence the mix up in the dates within their particulars.

The OP has tried to comply by disclosing a reconstituted version of your agreement (be it 2002 or 06) then probably realised that because of the transition from Visa to Master (new agreement ) they must provide the original...which they would have to anyway being the account is pre 2007 and litigation has commenced.The Original would probably have been destroyed and superseded by the 2006 but has you have never signed or consented they are now in a tricky position.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[appo07]

Hi Andy,

Thank you for looking in to this thread.

 

If the account is a transition from visa 2002 to master card 2006, are you indicating that they will need both agreements for their clam to stand up in court or just the one that they clam as being started in 2006. Which to my knowledge doesn't exist.

 

Thank you,

appo

[AndyOrch]

They would need the 2006..that is what has been assigned to Hillys......hence the LLoyds/TSB fluster looking for the original 2002.

[citizenB]

I've found a defence that is very close to my case, the only thing I needed to add was point 5, and the agreement name. Also should I include a paragraph from embarrassed defense, in case they decide to sent any documents.

"Without clarification of the claimant’s claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and as the claimant’s claim appears without merit, the defendant asks to be allowed to submit a fully particularised defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents he will rely upon."

 

 

 

 

DEFENCE

 

 

 

 

 

1. The claim as pleaded does not contain sufficient particulars to permit the Defendant to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence. The Defendant has made a request for disclosure, pursuant to Part 31 of the Civil Procedure Rules, to the Claimant to allow him to properly respond to the claim. The Claimant has failed to respond to the Part 31 request.

 

2. It is Not admitted that the Defendant signed an agreement with Lloyds TSB Bank . If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists the precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. The Defendant does not have in his possession any such agreement and is not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.

 

3. It is averred that if any agreement existed that the aforesaid agreement was a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act). It is not admitted that any such Agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act. The Claimant is put to strict proof that the aforesaid agreement was properly executed and has been enforceable at all times since its' inception.

 

4. The Defendant has no knowledge of the service of a default notice. The claimant is put to strict proof as to the content and service of any such alleged default notice.

5. The Defendant has on knowledge of the service of a termination notice. The claimant is put to strict proof as to the content and service of any such alleged termination notice.

 

6. Further and in the alternative it is not admitted that the sums claimed are lawfully owing. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sums claimed have been calculated and as to how it is asserted that the sums claimed are contractually owing.

 

7. Further and in any event in view of the failure to comply with the CPR Part 31 request it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to costs as claimed or at all.

 

 

8. In view of the foregoing it is denied that the Defendant is indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

Statement of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

 

 

I am the Defendant.

 

 

XXXXX

 

 

Date

 

This is my version... I think you need andyorch to confirm which way you should defend in the first instance.

 

 

DEFENCE

 

1. The Defendant is embarrassed by the lack of detail withinthe Claimants pleadings. Furthermore the Claimants disclosures made under the provisions of CPR 31.14 do not appear to support the Claimants pleaded case.The Defendant reserves the right to replead should the Claimant disclose further information and documents relating to this matter.

 

2. The Defendant admits to applying for a credit card account from the Claimant

 

3. The Defendant admits that the Claimant supplied a credit card in respect to account number (insert old number and card type here), on or around 2002.

 

4. The Defendant denies applying for, or entering into a new agreement for a credit card in respect to account number (insert new card number and card type here), on or around 2006.

 

5. The Defendant denies that the copy of the consumer credit agreement supplied by the original Creditor, Lloyds TSB, in response to her/his s78 request made in 2009 applies to the account number (insert new card number here) and which is the subject of this claim, or that it complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and its associated regulations.

 

6. The Defendant avers that the Claimant is seeking to rely on a single agreement in respect to multiple accounts and this is a clear breach of section 82 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

7. The Defendant denies receiving a Default Notice in accordance with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 or the CCEDTNR 1983

 

8. On receipt of the claim form dated XYZ, the Defendant immediately requested those documents mentioned in the claim form by way of CPR31.14, namely the agreement dated 2006 and the Default Notice. The Claimant has failed to comply or indeed even acknowledge that request.

 

9. Further and in the alternative it is not admitted that the sums claimed are lawfully owing. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sums claimed have been calculated and as to how it is asserted that the sums claimed are contractually owing.

 

10. Further and in any event in view of the failure to comply with the CPR Part 31 request it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to costs as claimed or at all.

 

11. In view of the foregoing it is denied that the Defendant is indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

[appo07]

Thank you CB,

I have received an acknowledgement letter (post #24) received it on 21st, post date 19th and date on letter is 12th so it took them a week to post it. basically says they are waiting for doc's from original lender, and they will agree to a 28 day extension to submit my defence.

 

Will points 1 and 8 be useable because they haven't sent any doc's asked for under crp31, but they have now acknowledged the request.

 

Thanks,

appo

[citizenB]

If they have agreed to an extension then you need to copy that letter to the court as soon as possible and certainly prior to the date on which you need to submit your defence. They are in effect giving you 28 days extra.

 

You will be advising the court that an extension has been agreed between the parties under CPR15.5 and it is YOUR duty to inform the court.

[appo07]

After reading the reply, post #25, copied as below, I was under the impression that the court wouldn't allow the extension due to the letter not stating a precise date, so I have emailed and wrote to DLC asking for them to agree in writing stating the date for my defence being 29th April 2013

However, I will send the original letter to court tomorrow.

 

Copy of post #25

"another ambiguity re the cpr 31.14 'template' letter re an extension!

generally, a specific date re an extension to the def deadline being a date up to 28 days from the original deadline is needed to avoid any ambiguity. then for def to notify the court of the agreed extension.

don't rely on their 'hold', stick to all court deadlines.

if you still want an extension (up to you. they replied outside of the 7 days, but you did offer them more time if required in the letter subject to a def extension) then get them to agree and confirm in writing (or email) a specific date (eg xx/xx/13) being up to the 28 days from the original deadline . once received, then forward that to the court headed re Civil Procedure rule 15.5."

Edited March 24, 2013 by appo07

[citizenB]

Sorry, I missed them not putting a proper date.

 

 

If you have sufficient time to contact them and then get the notice to the Court then try to do so. If not, then simply submit your defence.

[appo07]

Once again thank you for helping with this.

 

I was starting to panic about last post, the letter and email was sent to them on Saturday and I gave them a cutoff date which would just give me enough time to meet the original date. However Friday and Monday are bank holidays so not to sure how that will affect my timing with Eastar Monday being the last day to submit defence.

[Guest]

don't panic. as citb says, if they don't reply then just get a defence in on time. or, could give the court a call and ask whether what they have so far sent re an extension would be acceptable. give them a call anyway to double check what the situ is re bank hols.

was just saying that without a specific date there could be an ambiguity. whilst them saying yes we give you an extra 28 days might be acceptable, in some threads the court has asked for a specific date. plus, you would want any docs at least 7 days before the extended deadline for you to consider them. (they might even still come back and say is small claims so no need re 31.14, up to them)

Edited March 24, 2013 by Ford

[citizenB]

You should still be able to put your defence in on Monday - but check with the Court that everything will be operating as usual.

[appo07]

I've just got the reply from my email, they have attached their letter of consent to the extension. The date is now shown without ambiguity.

I will now send a copy of this to court to day. For my covering letter can it be in a standard format as long as it's head with " Re: Civil Procedure rule 15.5. "

 

Thank you all,

[citizenB]

I've just got the reply from my email, they have attached their letter of consent to the extension. The date is now shown without ambiguity.

I will now send a copy of this to court to day. For my covering letter can it be in a standard format as long as it's head with " Re: Civil Procedure rule 15.5. "

 

Thank you all,

 

Your covering letter should look something like the following. pdf attached below

 

 

.[ATTACH=CONFIG]42737[/ATTACH]

[appo07]

Thank you CB,

 

just looked at the pdf, but a slightly confused with " It was agreed that due to the fact they are unable to dispatch documents, vital to my defence, DATE that an extension in accordance with CPR15.5 will be appropriate."

would that date be my original cutoff date?

 

Thanks,

appo

[AndyOrch]

Thank you CB,

 

just looked at the pdf, but a slightly confused with " It was agreed that due to the fact they are unable to dispatch documents, in support of my defence, DATE that an extension in accordance with CPR15.5 will be appropriate."

would that date be my original cutoff date? Yes

 

Thanks,

appo

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[appo07]

Hi,

Just a quick update,

 

I put in my defence, court gave them 28 days to respond or it would be stayed. I hadn't hear anything so rang court today and they haven't had a response,they then told me to just leave it at that.

 

Thank you all, for helping me with this.