Marstons saying they have a court orde....but they don't!

[wigvet]

My son’s partner sold her car and cancelled her insurance policy but there then followed an ongoing dispute with her insurance company (Thames) over the termination fee as they alleged that she had not returned her certificate of insurance for the vehicle concerned. She did return what she thought was her latest certificate but they were adamant they had issued a later ‘amended’ certificate what had not been returned.

All went quiet for a few months and then she received a letter from CCI Legal followed by threats from Marston’s who said they were in possession of a magistrate’s court order.

She wrote to:

i) CCI: to inform them that she had complied with Thames request and was unaware of any debt and to refer the matter back to Thames and not to appoint Bailiffs as this would deem to be harassment

ii) Marstons: to inform that she had paid to have a court check done (Trust Online) and there was not, nor has there ever been, a judgement against her and requested explanation of their letter

Neither of the letters was responded to and then on Saturday a ‘Removal Notice’ was shoved through the letterbox by Marstons who were chasing a ‘magistrate’s court fine’ totalling over £600

Not only is my son the sole legal owner of the property he is also the sole owner of the contents, fixtures and fittings.

As this ‘alleged’ dispute is with my son’s partner can they forcibly gain access to his property and what should be his partners nest step as she has written to both parties without a response asking for an explanation of their charges/action?

[unclebulgaria67]

It would not be a magistrates court order, but a county court judgement. The Trust Online details can take a month or so, to be updated with the latest CCJ details. Ask Marstons which county court awarded the CCJ and on what date, plus what reference numbers apply. Then Sons partner can phone the court.

 

If Marstons are telling porkies then warn them that they may be committing a criminal offence under the Administration of Justice Act 1970 and you would report them, if they continued to make false claims.

 

If the Insurers or their reps had applied for a CCJ, the court would have sent a court claim to the address they were given. This would have been the address where the Insurance was registered. Following the CCJ, the court would have sent details of the judgement to the address.

 

Marstons cannot gain any access to any property, unless they are invited in. They can try to levy on Sons partners car, if they find it and therefore best to make sure out of sight. Marstons would then give a period in which repayment would need to be arranged, before they could tow the car to dispose of.

 

Thames Insurers are known to be difficult. When the certificate of Insurance was returned, it should have been sent back by recorded delivery. If there is no CCJ, Sons partner should enter into a complaint with Thames and involve the FOS if necessary. If there is a CCJ, then they can complaint to Thames, but the FOS won't touch a complaint already with the courts.

[wigvet]

thanks uncleb' further points as follows:

 

‘It would not be a magistrates court order, but a county court judgement’

A: Marstons specifically refer to a ‘Magistrates Court Fine’

 

Ask marstons which county court awarded the CCJ and on what date, plus what reference numbers apply. Then Sons partner can phone the court.

A: Already done so in December but NO response

 

If marstons are telling porkies then warn them that they may be committing a criminal offence under the Administration of Justice Act 1970

A: this Act was referred to in a previous letter sent to to CCI, who appointed Marstons

 

If the Insurers or their reps had applied for a CCJ, the court would have sent a court claim to the address they were given. This would have been the address where the Insurance was registered. Following the CCJ, the court would have sent details of the judgement to the address.

A: NO court papers received at new or old address

 

They can try to levy on Sons partners car,

A: She now does not have one – she sold it in 2011 and this is from where this dispute originated

Edited January 21, 2013 by wigvet

[unclebulgaria67]

thanks uncleb' further points as follows:

 

‘It would not be a magistrates court order, but a county court judgement’

A: Marstons specifically refer to a ‘Magistrates Court Fine’

Ask marstons which county court awarded the CCJ and on what date, plus what reference numbers apply. Then Sons partner can phone the court.

A: Already done so in December but NO response

If marstons are telling porkies then warn them that they may be committing a criminal offence under the Administration of Justice Act 1970

A: this Act was referred to in a previous letter to CCI, who appointed Marstons

 

If the Insurers or their reps had applied for a CCJ, the court would have sent a court claim to the address they were given. This would have been the address where the Insurance was registered. Following the CCJ, the court would have sent details of the judgement to the address.

A: NO court papers received at new or old address

They can try to levy on Sons partners car,

A: She now does not have one – she sold it in 2011 and this is from where this dispute originated

 

Magistrates fine - Stopped by Police for not having Insurance ? Or other motoring offence ?. So nothing to do with Thames Insurance outstanding premium.

 

If it is court fine, then perhaps Sons Partner should contact the local magistrates court to see if any fine is noted against her.

 

Confused ! If Marstons have been written to with no response, , then I would ask Marstons for a copy of the court order they are using to try to enforce a fine or debt. They have to supply this on request.

[wigvet]

 

Confused ! If Marstons have been written to with no response, , then I would ask Marstons for a copy of the court order they are using to try to enforce a fine or debt. They have to supply this on request.

 

letter to Marstons in December 'As I am unaware of any case involving me ever going to court, let alone being able to defend myself, I request a copy of the said court order forthwith so that I may act accordingly'

 

NO response received to letter

[Surfer01]

The action would be civil regarding a debt alleged to be the termination fee.

[unclebulgaria67]

What is noted on the removal notice exactly ? Any clues about what this is about ?

 

Has your Sons partner tried phoning their office to find out what is going on, as no CCJ or court fine has ever been received.

[lamma]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/28/section/135

[BankFodder]

I've received a contact from Marstons about this thread.

 

They say that they would like to look into it if they could have a name and address or a reference number.

 

If this interests you then please email me the details to our admin email address - put "Marstons" in the subject line.

 

I don't think that you can lose anything by having them look into it directly for you

[tomtubby]

It is good to hear that Marston Group view posts on the forum and are willing to investigate.

 

Other bailiff companies could learn a lesson from this !!!

 

PS: It would seem from this query that a County Court summons had been issued by Thames and as no defence was filed a CCJ was awarded. For the case to have been "transfered up" to Marston Group the judgment would need to be in excess of £600. Their High Court division would be enforcing the debt.

 

If correct.....then you would need to file an application to set aside the judgment AND to "stay the proceedings". Ploddertom is the expert on such procedures.

[wigvet]

 

PS: It would seem from this query that a County Court summons had been issued by Thames and as no defence was filed a CCJ was awarded. For the case to have been "transfered up" to Marston Group the judgment would need to be in excess of £600. Their High Court division would be enforcing the debt.

 

If correct.....then you would need to file an application to set aside the judgment AND to "stay the proceedings". Ploddertom is the expert on such procedures.

 

Thnaks TT but...

i) NO court papers were ever received at old or new address

ii) The sum ‘allegedly’ owed (for which NO explanation, breakdown or substantiation has been received despite being requested) stands at £605

iii) Marstons specifically refer to:

a) Letter mid December: ‘Being in possession of a Magistrates Court Order’

b) Bailiff note put through letterbox last Saturday: ‘Magistrates Court Fine’

As previously stated:

i) I paid for a court search and NO judgment has ever been passed against the individual concerned

ii) I have asked Martsons TWICE for a copy of the court order, but none has been forthcoming

Due to the lack of response or copy of the order I am unable to make an ‘application to set aside the judgment AND to "stay the proceedings" to which you refer

And as regards Marstons offer to investigate I have written to both their Sale and Waltham Cross office (and to CCI Legal who instructed them) and there has been NO response whatsoever!

[Ell-enn]

Did you send the letters by recorded delivery? if so have you checked they were signed for? also did you keep copies of the letters?

[wigvet]

Did you send the letters by recorded delivery? if so have you checked they were signed for? also did you keep copies of the letters?

 

faxed AND sent by post; and copies kept

[Ell-enn]

faxed AND sent by post; and copies kept

 

Was it by recorded post ? (i.e. to be signed for by Marstons)

[tomtubby]

If you had faxed the letter then frankly.... there can be little excuse for not responding.....

[wigvet]

Incredible

Despite faxing Marstons yesterday fully outlining the case, despite enclosing copies of previous letters (all unanswered), despite asking again for a copy of the ‘court order’ and despite specifically asking that their ‘heavy’ is called off until full facts are at hand and can be dealt with in an appropriate manner he has been knocking at my sons door again this afternoon!!!!

Note pushed through the letterbox states:

Final Notice

‘I shall remove your goods for sale at public auction’

(house & goods are my sons who is the innocent party in all this!)

Their client is referred to as ‘HMCTS Greater Manchester’

And still no response to letters, no copy of court order just threats, threats, threats!

Shame on you Marstons!

The ‘enforcement agent’ has left his telephone number – I suppose if Marstons won’t take notice of courteous correspondence there is no chance of him being obliging is there or should I call him?

[wigvet]

And of two fax numbers on Marstons correspondence:

 

i) 01992 703703 continually rings

ii) 01992 807389 continually engaged

 

So you can’t communicate by fax with them now!!

[unclebulgaria67]

Sounds like this is a fine and not a civil matter.

 

Sons partner may not be telling your son everything they know. Perhaps this is a very old offence they had not paid the fine for.

 

Sons partner needs to phone the court urgently to find out what they need to do.

 

http://212.137.36.113/HMCSCourtFinder/Search.do?court_id=1438

[wigvet]

you are right uncleb

 

I have spoken to the enforcement agent who informs me that he has a copy of a ‘magistrates court distress warrant’

From what I can understand Thames insurance, upset at not getting the original Motor Insurance certificate back, reported my sons partner to the DVLA for false/failure to declare the sale of a vehicle! I jest ye not!

DVLA must have decided to take action

This has gone to the magistrate’s court in Trafford, Manchester and in my son’s partner’s absence, and her being totally oblivious to the case, the case went against her and she was fined!

I repeat for the sake of clarity she never received court papers of any description

I have asked him for a copy of the ‘warrant’

Two points:

i) The enforcement agent is still threatening to come to my sons to seize property – can he force his way in and what are my sons rights as regarding his entry?

 

ii) Where does my son’s partner stand with the court case if she was unaware of it? Can she have it set aside and if so what is the procedure?

 

The most unbelievable aspect of all this is that despite sending a number of fulsome letters asking for substantiation, breakdown and reasoning of the debt you are TOTALLY ignored!

 

PS thanks very much for your help so far

[unclebulgaria67]

As far as I know the Son partner can attend the Magistrates court in Manchester and swear a statement in front of Magistrates to say that they were not made aware of the hearing. The Magistrates should then put a stop on current action and there will be another hearing. She needs to contact the the court urgently. The bailiffs should not force entry, if the property is not owned by the person owing the fine.

[lamma]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/43/section/14

[wigvet]

i) It would appear that this case has nothing to do with an insurance company, as first thought, but has been instigated by the DVLA

ii) Marstons maintain that they have a ‘magistrates court distress warrant’ from August last year against my sons partner; I have now asked FOUR times for a copy of this. Yet having a paid search undertaken with ‘Trust Online’ in December there is NO record of ANY order against her at the address that she has lived at for the past 2 years

iii) This confirms my view that all previous documentation, court papers etc have been sent to an incorrect address

iv) The FIRST she knew of this case was upon receipt of Marstons first letter in late December

v) Once gain I have requested from Marstons a copy of any court papers, orders, client details etc so that I may deal with this in an appropriate manner which I have been unable to do so thus far.

vi) I have asked Marstons that until such time as we receive such documentation and have had a chance to speak to the court to clarify the situation that I respectfully request that any further visits by their enforcement agent are suspended. ...I hold my breath!

vii) One point which concerns my sons partner which I would like a quick response on please.. . My son works during the day and whilst his partner is busy putting the new baby in the car, can the bailiff simply walk in though the open front door to gain entry or does he have to be invited?

Thanks once again for help so far and in response to an earlier post my contact details have been forwarded by CAG to Marstons

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes bailiffs can enter through any unlocked door or window. As it is a fine, they can also ask the court for permission to break in using a locksmith.

 

I cannot underline the fact that your Sons partner needs to get down to the court urgently to swear the statutory declaration in front of magistrates, that she never received any court papers regarding a case taken up by DVLA. If she does not do this, then I suspect that bailiffs will be back this week and won't go away until the fine is paid to them.

[wigvet]

thanks uncle B but

i) I don't know which court to go to as Marstsons won't tell me - despite 4 requests

ii) the house, fixtures & fittings are the sole legal property of my son who is the innocent party in all this and you are saying they can break in HIS house?

[Old Cogger]

Make sure you keep date/time/copy of ALL events on this for future use.