LTSB PPI on old accounts 1989 onwards

[citizenB]

Did you have any paperwork for the oldest loan which you say they have made no offer on ?

[big fish]

Hi CitizenB

 

No I dont just start and finnish dates

 

Loan amount

 

Info to say it was paid off a few days before loan 2, it may have been a refinnance

 

Requested DSAR but only got info on three out of five loans. No info on PPI premium but proof on account list that it did.

 

Cant understand why they have defended it when it was sold the same way as all the others. They dont actually state there is no info for this loan... strange

 

Please advise BF

[citizenB]

I think you need the help of either ims21 or dx100uk for this.. I will flag for their attention.

[dx100uk]

that letter in many respects

is mostly templated.

 

you need that sar return from the ins section.

 

dx

[big fish]

Hi dx

 

Which letter the LTSB offer or mine (sent as PM) is templated?

 

Lloyds Insurance services only sent info on three latest loans. I have written back to them requesting the other two.

 

Shall I post reply to offer and see what they say?

 

BF

[dx100uk]

no chase up the missing data.

their leter is mostly templated

and using 'generisation' to cover their behinds

 

they are hidign something

 

they've just been fined for obstructing and delaying reclaimers

 

lets pus them.

 

dx

[big fish]

Hi

 

Spoke to PPI on phone today

 

Advised by them to take Loan 1 & Loan 2 to FOS. They said four seperate cheques were posted on Friday last and I was to cash those redresses I agreed with.

 

Loan 1 - Asked me for more info and stated that there defence stood after I read letter to them that I will post on board this evening.

 

Loan 2 - Stated no information available so could not budge on average compensatory payment.

 

I asked if I accepted their offer on Loans 3,4 & 5 and FOS subsequently found in my favour on 1 or 2 would I have lost out. They replied all loans were added up individually so it would not make any difference. Is this so?

 

What should I do?

 

BF

Edited February 25, 2013 by big fish

[big fish]

Here is my reply letter to LTSB offer

 

 

Re: Loan References: 1,2,3,4 & 5

 

I am writing to you today in relation to your decision regarding my complaint about Payment Protection Insurance Policies relating to the above accounts.

 

Loan 1

 

After reviewing my case you decided that the PPI was not missold so made no offer of redress.

 

You explained your reasoning behind your decision and requested if I was unhappy with this to contact you further within 28 days of receipt of your offer with any further evidence to support my claim. The following information is supplied:

 

Loan 1 was a Fixed Rate Personal Loan for £6000 that commenced on 30/10/1989 and was closed on 03/07/98. This followed a payment of £5758.75 from my current account ******* on 30/06/98. The term should have been 60 months but was paid over a substantially longer period of time. Above information is compiled from DSAR supplied by LTSB and not my personal recollection as suggested in your letter. I can categorically confirm no claims were ever made on any PPI policies with LTSB.

 

I am unable to supply the amount applied as a Front Loaded PPI premium to this account as LTSB have thus far failed to comply in full with my DSAR sent on 19/12/12 and to LTSB Insurance Services on 22/01/13. This matter is in hand and will result in a failed DSAR letter being issued if requested personal information is withheld further beyond the given time constraints. I informed the FSA and the ICO of the problems I have encompassed with the Lloyds Banking Group and they have kindly agreed to monitor the situation. If this case should be passed to the FOS I am sure they will be able to facilitate a reasonably accurate redress based on average PPI premiums given the account information above. I shall explain my dissatisfaction with your reasons not to uphold my complaint on an individual basis below:

 

 

 

i. Policy Features & Limitations – These comments amount to mere speculation as to what course of action the representative should have taken at point of sale. I would suggest unless you have an actual transcript or recording of the matter it is unfair for you to make a supposition based on pure speculation and conjecture as to what might or might not have happened at a meeting you did not attend. Making reference to your guidelines at the time to justify your refusal that 'it did not happen’ because' those were in place’, is wrong and unfair. In my opinion your case to not uphold my complaint is based on assumption and postulation, I refute your findings. PPI policies were not explained to me at point of sale, I was not aware I had even taken out an insurance policy.

 

 

 

ii. Cost of the policy - When I signed the loan documents I was led to believe this was the amount I had to pay for the loan and had no idea PPI was included in the amount I was paying. Again I refute your explanation as this was not explained to me citing the rationale from the paragraph above. The cost of the policy including PPI premium and associated interest was not explained to me.

 

 

 

iii. Optionality – If I had been informed the PPI premium was optional I would have opted out at the point of sale. Why would I have signed up to something which was going to add to the cost of a loan causing me more financial difficulty? I was in full time employment at the time the loan was taken out with yourselves and I received employee benefits which would have covered my loan payments had I been unable to attend work or been made redundant. I did not require PPI and it should not have been attached to my loan.

 

 

 

By implementing PPI polices LTSB assumed I required a vehicle to repay and had no other means. You state that taking out a PPI policy would not have improved the chances of an application being approved. I do not recall making this a point of my complaint and suggest that this has been included as part of a standard response. I would anyway strongly disagree with you on that point as sales staff would have been compelled to reach targets by selling policies.

 

 

 

You also mention “the sales process” and that you are “aware it was clearly demonstrated to me that the PPI product was optional”. This is once more mere speculation and conjecture, your findings are not proven, I was not made aware the policy was optional.

 

 

 

iv. Information and Disclosure - I was also not advised that I could have purchased a PPI policy from another independent company other than yourselves. Therefore I was not given the right to make an informed choice as to what policy, if any, would have been more appropriate to my needs. Again you relate to the policy documents and speculate on a course of events to which you were not party. Your services were not correctly explained and my needs were not identified.

 

For the above reasons and those mentioned in my previous correspondence I am requesting a full refund of all my insurance payments plus interest relating to this agreement. Your representative did not act fairly by adding PPI to my loan; this culminated in me paying for PPI I did not want or need, subsequently it was missold.

 

Loan 2

 

Following your investigation you state you no longer have any records relating to this account. This was a Fixed Rate Personal Loan for £8300 that commenced on 30/06/1998 and was closed on 11/03/02. Incidentally it closed on the same date as Loan 4, for which records are clearly still available; please offer an explanation. Information is quoted from DSAR supplied by LTSB. This loan may well have been a refinance of Loan 1 as the dates appear to correspond.

 

The following line appeared at the bottom of the account information on my DSAR: 07/03/2002 Nil / PLRP refund to loan by CCU/ WF. I suspect this note refers to a refund of PPI premiums when Loan 2 was consolidated with Loan 4 that created Loan 5.

 

This loan dates back to June 1998 and you state no information retained, however, information is available for Loan 3 from October 1998 (3 months later!) I see no reason why the offer is for average compensation given the details above and those mentioned in my previous correspondence. I request an accurate redress of premiums plus associated interest.

 

Loans 3, 4 & 5

 

Thank you for upholding these complaints following your investigation and the offer of £50 for the distress and inconvenience. As Loan 2 was consolidated with Loan 4 into Loan 5 will further adjustments will be required for accurate redress? There is also a note on the supplied DSAR suggesting that Loan 4 payed off Loan 3.

 

I am one of many LTSB customers who were missold PPI now being confronted with monolithic and inefficient bureaucracy when they approach the bank for redress. In your letter you state I can contact you on 0845 601 2863 if I am unhappy with any of the details. I rang the given number on 23/02/13 and my call was routed to a call centre in the Philippines where an agent was unable to offer any resolutions for my concerns. After 23 minutes having initially been told no offer had been made, I was able to establish that the only information that could be given was from the offer letter I received that I was complaining about! I was then told by a supervisor the only action possible was an escalation of my complaint. In order for the call centre to try and rectify customer complaints they should surely have access to all information and the ability to make some decisions. I personally feel your customer care department not only does a disservice to the customer but also to the call centre employees.

 

This prompts me to highlight the recent news bulletin in which Lloyds Banking Group were fined £4.3 million for obstructing and delaying 140,000 PPI reclaimants. With the evidence set out above I have no doubt that the FOS will uphold my claim and so urge you to reconsider my complaints.

 

Please advise if you feel it needs tweeking at all

 

BF

Edited February 25, 2013 by big fish

[big fish]

Letter above emailed to CEO

 

BF

 

Any advice ?

[big fish]

Reply from LTSB

 

Reviewed and recalculated Loan 3

 

Refund of premiums and interest attracted by these = £29.72

Early settlement difference = £622.01

Additional interest at 8% up to 27/03/13 = £743.97

 

Total - £1395.70

 

No consideration given to Loans 1 & 2, I have mailed back reiterating my complaints. Also no further information supplied with regard to Loans 1 & 2, this has also been requested again. Oh & another £50 for inconvenience! Any one able to check these figures, guess it is not easy without Loans 1 & 2 info though!

 

BF

Edited March 9, 2013 by big fish

[dx100uk]

too true

 

 

lets see

 

 

dx

[big fish]

Hi All

 

Written reply from LTSB following my emails to CEO & PPI Dept.

 

Loan 1 - reviewed my correspondence and maintained their decision not to uphold complaint. No reasons given or evidence of process as requested. This loan should have been a 60 month term for an advance of £6000. Actually ran from 30/10/89 - 03/07/98 (NINE Years) On the 30/06/98 a sum of £5758.75 was repaid from LTSB current account. That is £5758.75 to pay the £6000 loan off after nine years... something is amiss I fear!

 

I had as much idea about PPI on this loan as I did on the others... NO IDEA. I fail to understand how LTSB have upheld complaints on the other four loans but not this one as they were sold in EXACTLY the same way.

 

Loan 2 - Because of info supplied by myself (from the DSAR that they sent!!) a revised offer of £4187.13 has been made. This they state comprises of £1648.83 refund of PPI premiums, an early settlement difference of £440.96 and 8% interest until 16/04/13 of £2097.34

 

No info regarding above loans from DSAR request supplied but a note to say this aspect of my complaint will be reffered to the relevant department! The PPI complaints team are the relevant dept and obviously have accesss to info regarding all PPI premiums.

 

Please advise on my course of action. Do the figues add up or am I being had over again by LTSB? Sitting on a few cheques at present.

 

BF

Edited March 22, 2013 by big fish

[dx100uk]

if you still have issues you need to tell them.

 

dx

[big fish]

I will do regarding Loan 1 but what do you think of the other amounts of redress. Just worried that I might be missing something, this whole buisiness leaves me with a complete mistrust of the banking system. Please advise on Loans 2 - 5 do their figures look right?

 

BF

[big fish]

Dx

 

Could you ask Ims to have a look in re figures please? What are your thoughts on Loan 1 they have not said no info is available (haven't supplied any though). Loan 3 was for £6000, 60 months term and PPI premium was £1288.29 front loaded. If these figures were applied to Loan 1 (same terms and amount) what would the redress be roughly from Oct 1989 till now?

 

BF

Edited March 22, 2013 by big fish

[ims21]

I'm here already.

 

I'll try and get a look tonight but if not it will have to be tomorrow.

[dx100uk]

you prob are you need to do some spread sheets of your own..

 

dx

[dx100uk]

as whenever anyone posts on this thread

those on the thread get an auto alert a post has been made

 

i'm sure ims will look in

 

though you'll need to provide all the details

like the amount of PPI compared to the loan total

for any calcs to be done

 

if you have the info

required in link 1 below, then it will be possible

 

i notice ims has refered to this issue earlier

 

dx

[big fish]

Thanks would appreciate your input ims. Just wanted an approx figure. Dx I have more info now than previous request to Ims. It just intrigues me why they have defended this loan. Unsure how to counter there reply again as they basically gave no other reason for not upholding and did not challenge my points as requested. The DSAR info is obviously key but as yet not fully supplied. I will scan letters and post on forum today.

 

BF

Edited March 23, 2013 by big fish

[big fish]

Here is the letter, actually a number of letters all in the same envelope

 

BF

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42661[/ATTACH]

[ims21]

In order to do these calculations you would need a record of the repayments made on the loans.

 

Did you not get statements of the accounts with the SAR response?

 

Originally with loan 2 they offered an average redress payment in the alleged absence of information on the account. Ask them why they are not applying that principle to loan 1.

[big fish]

Hi Ims no statements of accounts supplied with DSAR... yet!! I may never get them.

 

They are not appyling the same principle to loan 1 as they have defended their decision; they do not think PPI was missold on loan 1 (see attachment letter). As previously stated this was sold to me the same way as loans 2 - 5, I had no idea about PPI.

 

I'm pretty sure they have the info on loan 1 and loan 2 for that matter. Why would they defend paying out otherwise?

 

Whats my next step, writing back or FOS

 

BF

[ims21]

I think you may have to take a view on this as to whether it is worth chasing for more or whether to take what you have been offered.

[big fish]

All loans are treated seperately and so are compensated with cheques for each agreement. I,m happy with the redress for loans 2-5.

 

Loan 1 I just feel something is amiss, 5 year loan over 9 years, why defend just this one?

 

BF

[big fish]

Email to CEO & PPI Dept

 

Dear LTSB

 

Please escalate this complaint to the highest level for final resolution. I feel my treatment during the reclaiming process has been appalling.

 

I am giving five days notice for LTSB to produce the information requested relating to PPI premiums for Loan 1 & Loan 2.

 

LTSB's continued efforts to frustrate the reclaiming of missold premiums have been reported to the FSA who have agreed to monitor this case. I shall also submit a complaint to the Independant Commissioners Office for failure to produce information under the DPA if no correspondence is recieved in the next five days. I understand the information for Loan 2 is limited but do not believe this is the case for Loan 1 that you have defended.

 

Your defence of PPI premium rebate for Loan 1 is inadequate to say the least. The letter dated 14/03/13 refers to statements I have not made in my complaint; it is a standard reply and this is not acceptable.

 

Why are you considering my eligibility & suitability for the policy; it was missold as were the other four loans for which you offered redress. You state you have taken into account all of my concerns but did not identify any other issues when reviewing my file. Please address each of my concerns individually with a valid defence of each point raised.

 

 

I fail to "understand the reason for the decision" as none has been given in your letter dated 20/03/13.

 

BF