Interview Under Caution. I feel suicidal please help

[hine moa]

Hey all

 

well i have been to see my solicitor. she doesnt think im mentally fit for the interview and if i were to attend she would like me to say no comment the whole way through. she also advised i got medical letters explaining my condition.

 

she said that i will be prosecuted for the amount but very unlikely i will go to prison as ive never been in trouble before.

 

she also said to me to keep paying the money back as this will look better.

 

she said it will take well over a year to ho to court as they are dealing with this daily. (not sure how im going to cope for so long - she said put it out my mind, easier said than done )

 

ive not to worry about papers as she said journalists are bored of this kind of thing now but only last week i seen two cases in my local paper for a lot less than me. one was for 2500 the other 3500.i realise i dont know the full story behind them but id imagine journalists will have a field day with me

 

i need to wait on there next letter (from dwp) she said they wont rush it on my expense.

 

just feel terrible and would rather say yip ive done a big boo boo here. but i deserve what i get x

 

If you're considered mentally unfit to attend what happens? Do they delay until you're considered fit?

 

I know how stressful all this is, I've been to an IUC and then ended up in court. I held my hands up from the beginning and admitted I shouldn't have had the money but I didn't withhold information on purpose. I ended up with a conditional discharge due to having been depressed since 2007 which is effectively when I stopped dealing with life other than my children and a degree I was studying for, I still have to pay back the overpayment of £8250 but I had no further fine or costs applied to me. Seems the magistrate took on board all my history and was very lenient with me. There's no reason why this couldn't happen for you too.

At no point did any solicitor advise me to say 'no comment' at the interview, I would imagine doing so only makes the investigator more determined to take you to court!

That asides, most LA's have a set figure that if the over payment goes beyond it a person automatically gets sent to court anyway, for instance my LA's amount is set at £6000. Different LA's have different guidelines it seems.

 

I don't think there is anything anyone can say to you to ease your own worries, it is hell to go through, no doubt about it, but one thing to remember is that some of us have survived it, I personally made myself quite ill over it too, just last week my name was in the paper, I wanted to go into hiding. I didn't, I told my children of 9 and 15 myself so no one could surprise them with the news, my family have all been supportive and just upset that they didn't realise how bad I have been feeling since 2007.

It seems to me that the benefits agencies and councils want to make our lives as miserable as possible, so how about we don't actually allow them to do it. We've both made a silly mistake involving money, that's it, we've not murdered or hurt anyone on purpose, beating ourselves up in this way is no good for anyone. The one thought that kept me going was that I haven't murdered anyone, plenty of others have done far worse than me and whilst I might be gossiped about for a week or so by next week it will be forgotten.

Try to stop worrying, don't let this make you even more ill, it's not worth it. ((hugs))

[woohoo198500]

Hi hine moa

 

As what a sin. I feel so bad they put things in the paper about you. Was it a lot they wrote?

 

I honestly at the time could not see that I was doing something wrong. I know now that I obviously was but at the time I was trying to deal with everything else.

 

I don't know if that was the right advice my solicitor gave me. She was a lovely lady and I cried a lot so I'm glad I took my folder of paperwork and written statement for her to read.

 

She said if I say no comment they have nothing else to use against me but to me that's not right. I'm no expert here and I don't have degrees in law or anything but I always thought honesty was the best policy.

 

I do not have the strength to look anyone in the face and say no comment when I know they have enough evidence to prosecute.

 

How long did it take for you to go to court if you don't mind me asking? I don't think I can stomach a year and a half feeling like I have been since July. I'm going to end up really Ill and if I'm not careful back in hospital. I've only recently increased my hours in work after I took a massive breakdown. I couldn't face another one.

 

It makes me worse knowing I brought this on myself and deep down know I have no right to be worried or upset at what I have done.

[Nystagmite]

Regardless of whether this was your fault or not, you still have every right to be upset.

 

very unlikely i will go to prison as ive never been in trouble before.

The people who normally go to prison for benefit fraud have usually been claiming hundreds of thousands for years when they shouldn't have been.

 

I do hope all this works out for you. Are you under a CPN or anything? It may help you if you can talk to them. I don't think they can give legal advice; but I am sure they can help point you in the right direction. Or even just be there to talk to you if you need it.

[woohoo198500]

Hi nystagmite

 

I see a psychiatrist on a monthly basis as well as my g.p every two weeks. I have a cpn also but she went on long term sick. I contacted her department today and they said they would get someone to call back. Still waiting not that they will call tonight.

 

I have my g.p tomorrow morning so I'm going to tell him I'm finding it quite hard to cope. It's not that I can't do anything for myself or my son but mentally I cannot get this out my head. I have not had a full nights sleep since July as its like a tape recorder in my head. I don't know how else to explain this. My body is desperate to relax yet my head only wants to think about this over and over again.

 

I'm not focusing on anything else

 

Wish I could make this all go away but I can't.

 

Again thanks to all who have been supportive. I was terrified writing this out last night. I really do appreciate the advice as I haven't spoke to many about this as I am so scared

 

X

[hine moa]

Hi hine moa

 

As what a sin. I feel so bad they put things in the paper about you. Was it a lot they wrote?

 

I honestly at the time could not see that I was doing something wrong. I know now that I obviously was but at the time I was trying to deal with everything else.

 

I don't know if that was the right advice my solicitor gave me. She was a lovely lady and I cried a lot so I'm glad I took my folder of paperwork and written statement for her to read.

 

She said if I say no comment they have nothing else to use against me but to me that's not right. I'm no expert here and I don't have degrees in law or anything but I always thought honesty was the best policy.

 

I do not have the strength to look anyone in the face and say no comment when I know they have enough evidence to prosecute.

 

How long did it take for you to go to court if you don't mind me asking? I don't think I can stomach a year and a half feeling like I have been since July. I'm going to end up really Ill and if I'm not careful back in hospital. I've only recently increased my hours in work after I took a massive breakdown. I couldn't face another one.

 

It makes me worse knowing I brought this on myself and deep down know I have no right to be worried or upset at what I have done.

 

They wrote more about the other guy that was in court at the same time as me, he was up for less money than me and got off worse than me, then they tagged me along underneath, stated the amount of money and the fact that I got a conditional discharge, they didn't go into huge detail, there were no journalists in court apparently they ring up and get the bare facts.

 

I didn't realise I had done anything wrong, just when they put the evidence in front of you, you realise what a stupid mistake you made. Just this morning on the school run chatting to another mum I found out she too had been court over something similar, just remember you are not the only one. For both her and me the time between interview and court was six months but I know some areas are taking longer.

 

You have the right to be upset, you did something by accident, you didn't do it on purpose, that's the catch, they make you feel like crap because they want to prove you did it on purpose, you have more than enough grounds to show that you did not do this on purpose, its a direct result of not being able to cope fully with life, that's all.

[debt4get]

the only reason why your solicitor is asking you for the 'no comment' is to avoid incriminating yourself any more than you have to...if they have the evidence, then they have the evidence, end of...if they are still fishing in order to make their case more secure than it shouldnt be you that helps them out..most solicitors would advocate a no comment interview you do not want to led by questioning down some blind alley and find yourself trapped at the end of it....the time to plead any mitigating circumstances should be at court if it goes that far...as a few other posters have said, at the end of the day you made a mistake nothing more nothing less...it would appear that our glorious MP's are regularly making these mistakes over their homes being relet then putting in claims for hotel bills, or their expenses for moat cleaning etc....you have offered and are paying back the money try not too worry and good luck

[woohoo198500]

Hine moa I'm glad they didn't ridicule you as that is what I am most scared of more so for my son than me. He doesn't need to be tarnished for something stupid that I have done.

 

I fully appreciate and now realise I have done something wrong and the way I was brought up was if you do something wrong you say sorry and rectify the situation. I will pay back every penny that I am due. I am disputing the HB amount due to underlying entitlement which they didn't take into consideration however if I am wrong with this theni will give the full amount back in affordable amounts.

 

I just feel taking me to court is wasting time and resources although I'll probably end up paying the court fees too.

 

If I didn't hold my hands up and try to make out lies or not be cooperative with them then yes take me to court but I've never ignored them every letter I have responded to and called straight away. When I call them they make me feel like an idiot and I start becoming very stressed anxious and nervous alln the one go.

 

Imagine feeling like that when I can't even see them. At the iuc I'll be a mess

[woohoo198500]

Thanks debt4get

 

That makes more sense as to why she said that.

 

Yea MP's ppffftt not that I say they are all the same however a few have really made me mad with what they do and get away with.

[jadeybags]

They will take mitigating circumstances into account in court.

Also I don't think it is unusual for solicitors to advise people to not even go to IUC's let alonje make no comment. The one I spoke to said he sometimes advises it, especially if you don't know what it's about, in my case I did know, so it would not have benefitted by not going.

But his opinion was that an IUC is basically to gather more evidence for court. To be blunt they aren't looking for an apology. If they think they can prosecute, they will. The IUC tape is used in court & he said sometimes it's better to be sent the evidence against you, & then he sorts out what's needed in court. He said there is nothing worse than someone giving away loads of stuff that they would have been better not.

It makes their job harder in court. He was a proper benefits solicitor too. He basically said it depends on the person, & how well they will cope under pressure under an interview conditions. If you are the type that wont deal with it & will end up even admitting to things you didn't intentionally do, then don't go to it.

And the person that interviewed me said they have had it before where even they knew the person hadn't intentionally done something yet they were so scared they said they did, & they felt awful because it was there on tape & nothing they could do about that.

[woohoo198500]

Will i lose my job? i work in sales. if i do i take it i will never work again.

ive never been in any kind of trouble and i know face a criminal record and everyone knowing about me.

i spoke to my g.p this morning. he said to go to iuc and get it over with as prolonging it is making me really unwell.

i dont think they will take into account what has went on in my personal life for the past two years.

im just so upset and stressed with it all. last night i slept for just over two hours

wish i could make this all go away

[debt4get]

i doubt very much if you will lose your job....and it is not yet certain that you will even get to a court. if you are going to the IUC then as advised i would be answering no comment, there is no way you want to get yourself led by questioning down some road only to find when you get to the bottom there is no way out....the reason for the interview is to incriminate yourself, if you want to read out your personal circumstances and why what happened happened, then i would prepare a written statement that you can read out at the end of the interview....good luck....

[jabba jones]

There is some interesting advice here. I think you must remember that each case is different & therefore advising to not attend or to no comment at an IUC across the board is actually very lazy advice, especially from a solicitor who has not even bothered asking for disclosure yet.

 

From what I've heard from my ex-colleagues things have changed over the last few months. The CPS now prosecute for the DWP & where as before, a no comment interview might stop a case been prosecuted, now for a case where the evidence is indisputable (such as working in receipt) a no comment interview with an appropriate overpayment almost guarantees a court appearance.

 

This could differ from area to area but if woohoo does no comment then it might be the case that only mental health issues may stop this from reaching court.

 

If it does get that far then no comment interviews can also work against you. We would sometimes explain the Caution during an IUC. The advised script we were given by our solicitors, who were worried of losing cases where someone claimed not to have understood the caution, was something along the lines - this interview gives you the chance to explain certain facts & your actions. You have the right of silence & do not have to say anything, however, if you do not say anything & the case does get to court & you then say something that you could have said now, the court may wonder why & this may harm your defence.

 

Not attending an IUC can end up even worse. Again if the overpayment is appropriate & if the evidence is good then arrests can be considered. This used to be rare, but I know my old team have a good relationship with their local police & are now attending arrests on a regular basis. So you still get IUC'd only this time it's at the police station & the neighbours get to wonder what you've done! I'd love to hear some of the conversations clients have with their solicitors when their advice has ended with them in this predicament.

 

It may not happen but that's the chance you take.

 

Like I've said each case is different & what path you take must be considered carefully. Sometimes, especially where you've got something to hide, no commenting or not attending is probably the right advice, but is that really the case here?

 

Personally where the offence is known & where woohoo may have problems taking part in the IUC I think a thorough, prepared statement might be best. Add to that as much evidence as possible regarding mental health issues at the time of the offence & take it from there. It won't change the amount of the overpayment, but it will be looked at when considering if prosecution is in the public interest.

 

Just one question for woohoo. A £15,000 overpayment shows that this took place over quite a long period of time. Did you pay your own rent & council tax during that time or just allow the council benefits to do that for you?

[woohoo198500]

Hi jabba jones

 

The overpayment is for a period of 20 months.

 

The housing benefit was part payment to my rent. My rent is £675 a month and they paid £425 a month. They are asking for the full amount back as I did not declare I was working. They have said I am still entitled to housing benefit but at the amount of £392. Today I recieved a letter advising that they will be taking £10.65 a week from my housing benefit to recover the overpayment. What I don't understand is the rule for underlying entitlement as it looks to me that I am due back £720 to the housing benefit rather than £9500?

 

Income support again was the same period of time 20 month a total of £5149

 

All of this period in time until now I have been very unwell.

 

I have prepared a written statement advising of everything in my first post about the state of my mental health being unable to cope and trying to support my mother.

 

I would much rather try to sort this out as best as I can but both solicitors have advised no comment or not to attend. I feel this makes it worse. The first solicitor I just spoke to over the phone did not know anything about my health or how this happend he just said he advises this to all his clients. The second solicitor who I seen yesterday feels I am not in a fit state to attend however I would rather read my statement the best that I can and let them know of how much of a mess things have been.

 

I can honestly say with everything that I have been dealing with I became negligent and this is far from how I am. I've never done anything like this and feel ill with my stupidity.

 

I think it's best I turn up. I am seeing my psychiatrist at the beginning of November. I spoke with her over the telephone. She has prepared a letter explaining about my health. Would this even make some kind of difference?

[jadeybags]

I agree with jabba jones tbh, there was someone on here a while back that did end up getting arrested & home searched, so it did used to happen even back then. It is easy for solicitors to say don't attend or say no comment. The written statement sounds a good idea though. And it won't harm accepting the over payment, because you are. But really do make sure you stress whilst that tape is rolling that you NEVER intentionally meant to commit fraud! The important thing is to try & bear in mind whilst you're there, that tape will be used.

No one can tell you what will end up happening. Of course they can't. Wish they could.

[woohoo198500]

I know jadeybags I've thought long and hard about this today (as I do everyday just now) but I've decided when I get re lettered to go to the iuc as I postponed the first one until I got legal advice I am going to go and read my written statement the best that I can and hope that they understand what I am saying. I feel saying no comment or not even going looks worse for me and I did not do this all intentionally. I've just made a complete mess of it all and more than likely hurt my son which is something that I will never forgive myself for.

 

I would rather explain my situation that I have been in now for just over two years now as well as explain about how Ill I am and have been.

 

I need to accept that I have done something very wrong and take whatever I get.

 

I really do appreciate the support and the advice that I have recieved on this. It has helped me think of things as logically as I can.

[jadeybags]

I know jadeybags I've thought long and hard about this today (as I do everyday just now) but I've decided when I get re lettered to go to the iuc as I postponed the first one until I got legal advice I am going to go and read my written statement the best that I can and hope that they understand what I am saying. I feel saying no comment or not even going looks worse for me and I did not do this all intentionally. I've just made a complete mess of it all and more than likely hurt my son which is something that I will never forgive myself for.

 

I would rather explain my situation that I have been in now for just over two years now as well as explain about how Ill I am and have been.

 

I need to accept that I have done something very wrong and take whatever I get.

 

I really do appreciate the support and the advice that I have recieved on this. It has helped me think of things as logically as I can.

 

It's more naivety I reckon? You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. As a single parent we prioritise things & the little details can take a back seat, but then end up becoming big details & we wonder what the heck we were doing & now knowing we should have paid more attention. It's a nasty wake up call that's for sure. A hard lesson to learn, & we're not the first & wont be the last to have to learn it.

Once you get through it out the other side you'll feel like you have woken up from a nightmare & are back on planet earth again. But hang on in there. It WILL be over with.

[woohoo198500]

I hope so. I just wish it would be over and done with yesterday.

 

I had some medications increased today so hopefully that will help but I realise that they won't take affect right away.

 

The council also asked for proof of earnings again this time for aug and sep as well as childcare costs and for this to be filled out by my child care provider. I have had all of this completed today and will post it tomorrow for them.

[Stan Lee]

Jabba Jones has given good advice. I believe, in England, if you do a 'no comment' in the interview, then this can also be held against you in court (but not in Scotland). I suspect your first lawyer has little experience in benefits fraud cases. One thing I would urge you to do is speak to someone in Welfare Rights if you think that there is a mistake in your hoursing benefit bill. This should be looked at, and appealed. You still have some months before a potential court date, and if the difference is as much as around eight grand in error (and it is the council's fault) then this can be pointed to in court, if you reach it. I understand you are stressed: seek advice though from experts in the civil side of this (the overpayment) and get it challenged. I would approach welfare rights and/or citizens advice bureau, and bump this up to the highest priority at the minute. You will need to take all of your paperwork in with you, but it is worth having this checked and appealed.