Robinson Way County Court Claim Form - NO credit agreement

[Dotty50]

Hi... Sorry didnt mean images but if u look at my first post it details my CCA request in 2010 and RW response. Like i said i did the CCA in 2010 do i have to do this again. Thanks in advance

 

Hi Lisa, as I said before, you need to clarify what the 'credit agreement' is, how else are you going to defend otherwise?

 

If no-one has produced one yet they are in default of your S77/78 request and if it ends up in court, what are they going to produce to show the judge that they are entitled to demand this money?

 

I see Andy's around now, he's the expert, have a read of some other similar threads but remember you have time limits now so you need to gather as much info to prepare a defence if that's what you intend to do.

[lisaclaim]

Hi all... I am posting the CPR 31.14 tomorrow morning by recorded delivery. I spoke with a solicitor today and all seems good. Giving RW till 22nd October based on the CPR so lets see what they come back with. Thanks again all

[Dotty50]

Ok Lisa keep us posted of any developements

[lisaclaim]

UPDATE:

 

Received letter today from Horwich Solic. dated 17th Oct

 

Basically they have referred our letter to their client who will endeavour to comply with our request but "must point out that they are reliant upon the original creditor, HFC Bank, to produce the documentation and trust you will bear with us whilst they undertake the search for the documents".

 

... I am a bit worried as they have not stipulated a date. Any advice please as what am I supposed to give to the courts

 

That is all they have put in the letter, nothing else !!

 

Thanks

[Dotty50]

So Robinson's have issued a claim without having the paperwork/agreement on which they will rely on TUT TUT!!!

 

They will not stipulate any dates and rely on your 'ignorance' not to submit a defence and end up getting a default judgement, this is how they work I'm afraid, so you will need to submit a defence on the basis of not knowing what they are claiming for, that will ensure that you do not get a ccj against you.

 

The alternative is to ask for an extension, which will give you an extra 28 days to submit (on top of the initial 28 days) but you will need written confirmation from the claimant that they agree and this will have to be submitted to the court.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Dotty50

[lisaclaim]

Hi... many thanks for your response. So when is it best to file the defence. Should I wait, send them another letter asking them to write to the court asking for an extension so they can get the credit agreement. Then wait. Then about a couple of days before my time is up file my defence. Is my defence to just state that they have not provided a true copy or original of a credit agreement related to the particulars in this claim. Is that all I would need to put.

 

Many thanks... Lisa

[Dotty50]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?349319-Claim-issued-MKDP-barclaycard-will-need-some-help-please!&p=3841988&viewfull=1#post3841988

 

Here is the defence I used Lisa, of course it needs to be adapted to your circumstances but it gives you a basis to work from, it's not my own work though, I found it from another thread I think it may be Andyorch's original work!

 

I don't think it matters when you submit your defence as long as it is done in time.

 

As far as asking for an extension, that is up to you, I think it prolongs the stress myself, if they haven't got the paperwork now it's unlikely that they'll produce anything after another month!

[lisaclaim]

Hiya

 

Many thanks for this... I have prepared my defence based on what you have put and also added the CPR 31.14 and their response.

 

Do you happen to know if I can enter the defence online at moneyclaim as I am having problems. I originally did the acknowledgement online for both me and hubby but I cannot remember getting any gateway id's and when I enter the claim numbers and passwords from the pack again they don't recognise them

 

Even though I did the acknowledgement online can I still do the defence in post as cannot seem to get in online.

 

Thanks

L

[Dotty50]

Hi Lisa yes you should be able to submit it online in the same way as doing your AOS, but if your password isn't working then you may need to speak to the court or you can ask for it to be re-sent to your email I think.

 

I would advise that you post your defence up here without any identifying details, then hopefully Andyorch can have a look before you submit it.

[lisaclaim]

Ok... thanks for the quick reply... here is the defence with private stuff taken out:

 

In the Northampton (CCBC) County Court

Claim number xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Between

RW = Claimant

and

xxxxxxxx - Defendant

DEFENCE

1. I, xxxxxxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, am thedefendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to theclaim made by RW, the Claimant.

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admitnor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put theclaimant to strict proof thereof.

3. The claimants Particulars of Claim are vague and fail to discloseany cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that theyfail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the civilprocedure rules. (Even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system.)

4. No documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offerednor have any dates of agreement been stated which the Defendant needs to establishwhat agreement it is that this action is based upon and so the claimant's claimappears without merit.

5. On receipt of the claim form I, the Defendant, sent a CPR 31.14Request (dated and sent on the xxxxxxxxxxxx) for a copy of theagreement and any other supporting documents mentioned in the Particulars ofClaim.

6. I received a letter dated xxxxxxxxxxxxx from theclaimants’ solicitors, xxxxxxxxxxx : “Further to your letter dated xxxxxx ...... [ in here I put what the letter said]”

7. As a result, the claim as pleaded does not contain sufficientparticulars to permit me to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence.I am at a disadvantage to respond to this claim and to allow me to properlyrespond to the claim.

8. It is denied that I have an agreement with RW.

9. If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists, the preciseterms and date of any such agreement are not admitted and was not availablewhen the claim was processed. I do not have in my possession any such agreementand am not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strictproof as to the date and terms of such agreement.

10. Without admission that any cause of action is shown by theClaimant it is denied that I am indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

AND the Defendant

 

Seeks an order that the Claimant’saction is struck out or otherwise is dismissed onthe grounds that any claim cannot succeed.

Alternatively if the court decides notto strike out the Claimant’s case, it is requested that the court orders fulldisclosure of the requested documents pursuant to the civil procedure Rules.

The Defendant respectfully asks thepermission of the court to amend this defence if or when the Claimant providesfull disclosure of the requested documents and allows inspection of theoriginal documents.

 

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

 

Signed

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Defendant

[lisaclaim]

both me and hubby got a separate claim form but with same claim number. do i have to put two separate defences in ?

[Dotty50]

That's what I was just thinking too!

 

I would imagine that you will need to submit two but seems strange if both claim numbers are the same, check with the court. Unless anyone else on here knows?

 

Send a PM to Andyorch and ask him to check your defence.

 

There are quite a lot of words stuck together Lisa, is that just the way it's copied over?

[lisaclaim]

Hi, yes it is just the way it is copied... sorry didnt realise until I just read it. The Word document shows OK though. I will send a PM

 

Thanks again

Lisa

[AndyOrch]

Hi Lisa responding to your PM.

 

Will run through the Defence with you tomorrow .

 

Regards

 

Andy

[lisaclaim]

Hi Lisa responding to your PM.

 

Will run through the Defence with you tomorrow .

 

Regards

 

Andy

Many thanks... I will be on my computer about 8.30pm tonight

[lisaclaim]

Hi

 

It was a good job I rang the court this morning ! I was struggling to log on last night on moneyclaim. It would not accept my details not the claim number and password of the claim form. When I did the acknowledge of service on the 9th Oct I took a PDF print of the AOS that I had done on moneyclaim... good job. I spoke to moneyclaim and they had no record of my acknowledgement of service at all. They allowed me to email them as it was proof that I had done it on the 9th. Lucky for me that RW had not noticed it had gone over... probably because of the CPR 31.14 which noted I had done the AOS.

 

All good now although my defence is now going to have to be done by email... they gave me an email address to submit my defence.

 

Hope others check that their AOS has been accepted

 

Just waiting for a reply on the defence I posted above to see if anything else to add.

 

Oh by the way they said need to submit two defences, one for me and one for hubby

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

That must be one of the vaguest /shortest P.o.C I have ever seen...I think you should reciprocate

 

Defence

 

o Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

o The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system.

 

o No documents supporting the claim or what it refers to i have been offered , despite a request by CPR31.14 and a Section 78 (delete if not applicable)to the claimant for further information which is yet to be furnished.

 

 

o As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

o On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

o Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit and spurious. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

Regards Andy

[lisaclaim]

Hi Andy

 

Thank you... I did have a giggle (first time in ages with regards to this claim) as to what you put in your first line of response and we think it is a good idea to reciprocate

 

I think that is great and concise what you have put. But just a couple of questions.

Should I put something in that states that I got a reply to the CPR 31.14 which discloses that they do not even have the agreement as the letter states they will have to go back to the assignee and it could take some time so we have to bear with them!

You also say with regards to Section 78 - should I do that then as that is one that I have not done. Not sure what it is but I can take a look and find out somewhere on this forum.

 

Again many thanks it is very much appreciated.

[AndyOrch]

Yes its your defence Lisa feel free to add remove, but less is more dont expand...vague..I think what i have stated covers it......responded yes..... furnished....no.

 

A section 78 is request for your Credit Agreement you pay a £1 fee and they have 12 days to comply.If they don't comply then they cant enforce whilst in default of your request.

The reason I stated sec78 is because they can ignore it in a CPR with no consequences but if they ignore a section 77 request...well as above.

Its a bit late now for you to initiate the section 78 request as you submitting your defence now.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

PS as you are emailing the defence you will have to add an header and a Statement of truth at the end.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[lisaclaim]

Hiya.. Thanks. I did a section 78 in 2009 which they eventually responded but no agreement. Cant remember what the letter said. Not to hand at moment as I am not near my computer. I will check tomorrow and post back. I had also paid the £1...

 

Yes to emailing the defence thanks

[AndyOrch]

If that was to the OC then you can still refer to it but state it was the OC and that they still remain in default...but dont expand too much retain it for later in the process.

 

Andy

[Dotty50]

Hi Lisa, looks like your sorted for now.

 

Strange that your AOS didn't register!

[lisaclaim]

If that was to the OC then you can still refer to it but state it was the OC and that they still remain in default...but dont expand too much retain it for later in the process.

 

Andy

 

Hi... we sent the CCA on 21st April 2009 with the £1 payment to RW.Got numerous letters stating that they had requested from HFC.Then eventually on 28th March 2010 letter stating "Further to your recent request for a copy statement / agreement for your account. We have contacted the original creditor and they have advised that all relevant information has previously been sent to you and that the balance outstanding as stated above is correct. The account is now long overdue for payment and we look forward to receiving payment in full, or your payment proposals, by return"On 1st April 2010 sent letter to RW standard one of the forum about them failing to respond to my legal request.....etc etc.On 18th April 2010 RW responded "The fact that we are unable to obtain this documentation does not mean the debt does not exist or that we are not entitled to pursue you for the sums outstanding. Data will continue to be processed in line with the principles of the DP act 1998 and account will continue to be reported to credit reference agencies."Both me and hubby have access to credit experian reports and this does not showThanksLisa

[lisaclaim]

Good evening... just wanted to post confirmation that wel filed the defence this evening via email.

 

Will keep you all posted when response

 

Thanks again for those who helped me in this process... so greatly appreciated x