Rockwell Debt Collection Agency

[Sharps58]

My former business partners and I obtained an over-draught facility from Lloyds TSB in 2006.

 

Each business partner acted as guarantors on a joint and several basis.

 

I left the partnership in 2007 and have since discovered that the remaining partners did not inform the bank of the indemnity that they'd signed

relieving me from all guarantees relating to the business.

 

In the intervening years they have fallen into arrears with the bank and now I have received a letter from Rockwell demanding the full and immediate payment of £22K.

 

At no point since I left in 2007 have Lloyds TSB ever written to me to express concern over payments or to discuss any options that may have been available.

 

In addition Lloyds TSB have never informed me that the debt had been passed to a debt collection agency.

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

[renegadeimp]

Do you have any written proof that you were relieved?

 

Also, if the bank has sent a suppossed 22k debt to a DCA, then there is definitley something fishy about the debt. The DCA however wont care. They just see the big number and think.. "ching ching! payday!".

 

You need to ask them for concrete proof.

 

As i said, if the bank wanted the money, they would have chased it themselves, and not passed a debt that size to a DCA.

[ims21]

Have you got a copy of the signed release documents?

[ims21]

Thread moved to debt collection forum

[Sharps58]

No. The remaining partners say that the signed copies along with other documents were lost to a flood some time ago. I only have the unsigned electronic copy sent to all parties by the companies solicitor.

[renegadeimp]

Ok. What you need to do now is sent the DCA the prove it letter.

 

Can i ask if the DCA owns the debt now, or is the DCA only acting on behalf of the bank? It seems very strange that the bank has allocated the debt to someone else, and are making you liable for the entire amount. Theres something definitely not right here.

[Sharps58]

Thanks. I do not know if they or the bank own the debt. Because LLoyds have never contacted me I have written to Rockwell stating that I know nothing about the debt. (I am assuming that the debt is indeed a result of the business overdraught, it can't be anything else. I've never owed anybody anything in all my life!)

[renegadeimp]

Ok. What you need to do first, is get all the evidence you have together, and file it. Then you need to contact the DCA with the prove it letter from the library on this site, and demand that the DCA tell you if they own the debt, or if they are acting on behalf.

 

If they own it, then i can guarantee you 100% it is a bad debt. As i said multiple times, a bank will not let a debt that big go without a fight.

[Sharps58]

Thanks again. I'm sorry but I do not understand what is meant by a "bad debt". Also if it turns out that they are acting on behalf what would you suggest that my next step should be?

[renegadeimp]

Bad debt is our way of saying that the debt is sour, or there is something wrong with it. This could mean that they dont have paperwork, there are tons of unfair charges/interest on it, or it could be that they simply cant get hold of the other people so are chasing you for the full amount.

 

If the DCA turns out to be acting on behalf of the bank, tell them to go and play in the middle of a motorway. Then deal directly with the bank and ignore all the stupid attempts by the DCA to get money from you.

 

As i said before, the DCA just see's the huge number of arrears and thinks it's a payday bonanza for them. They don't care at all if its legit or not. They just want to get their grubby hands on the cash.

[Sharps58]

"...tell them to go and play in the middle of the motorway"!

If it turns out to be a bad debt then what do I do next? I am sorry to keep asking these questions. I simply cannot tell you how much I appreciate your help.

[renegadeimp]

If it does turn out to be a bad debt ( you'd probably need to SAR the bank to get the full info, as well as finding out why the forms werent sent and why you are being held solely liable), then we can advise on what to do from there.

 

Remember, the bank already seems to have given up since there has been no communication for 5 years.. The DCA however, will be trickier, because as i said before, they think they are in for a bumper payday.

 

If you start getting letters from them or the bank offering discounts, or settlement figures of any kind, then its 100% guaranteed it's a bad debt, and theyre simply trying to play on your feelings to pay it. Some DCA's will even admit that the debt is unenforceable, but that you have a moral obligation to pay it".

 

 

Send the prove it letter first and see what comes back from them. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?428-General-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt

 

Depending what comes back, if anything, we can then go from there. Send that letter with either free proof of delivery, or recorded. So you know they got it.

 

 

Edit: since the debt hasnt been acknowledged or paid by you since 2007, this debt could be statute barred or be very close to it. That could be the reason why they are harassing you.

[Sharps58]

Thanks yet again. As I said earlier, I have already written to the DCA stating that I know nothing of the debt and I sent it recorded so I know they've received it. I'll keep you posted on what happens next. Your help is much appreciated.

 

I have moved house in the last 2 years so surely the DCA cannot even be sure that they are writing to the right person.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Sharps58
Additional information

[renegadeimp]

If you are on the electoral roll or hold a bank account, then you are easily traceable through your credit file and associated addresses.

 

Since you have sent the prove it letter, just sit back and relax. If they still try to pester you, then you can place the entire account into serious dispute, which will stop all collection activity until they provide complete proof you owe them the money. You then must start making official complaints to the dca/bank and the OFT.

 

Make sure the letters are heading FORMAL COMPLAINT, and ask that they provide you with a final response within 8 weeks. You can then take the complaint to the FOS if they are still adamant that you are liable, but they cant provide any proof.

 

 

Should they think about taking you to court, you have a good chance of winning, as no proof you own any debt is forthcoming, plus you have the letters from your solicitor.

 

I'm still thinking that the Debt is Statute Barred or unenforceable, and the other people who were with you initally have "done a runner", so the DCA is trying to get the full amount from you.

[Bandit127]

Good advice from renegadeimp as always.

 

I am with him on the SAR too - for an additional reason. The bank may have a copy of your indemnity letter. A long shot yes - but worth a £10 punt on a debt this size. You should specifically ask for any correspondence from the partners relating to your obligation to the account/bank to try to elicit this in your SAR letter.

 

The solicitor may have kept a copy too?

[renegadeimp]

The debts probably only that big due to massive charges etc. The main thing is that the OP was supposedly relieved of all responsibility from the money, yet 5 years later, with no correspondance at all in those years, here we are.

[Sharps58]

Update!

See below

Edited October 26, 2012 by Sharps58
Posted in wrong area...apologies

[Sharps58]

Update!

I sent the "Prove It" letter to Rockwell on the 21 September (sent "Signed For", and I have proof that they received it). I heard nothing for a month then on 20 October I received another letter from Rockwell saying, "Despite our previous correspondence the above debt remains unpaid". They have given me 7 days to pay or they will either commence court action or I will get a visit from a debt collector. This latest letter of theirs was unsigned.

[jason cook]

Sharp58

 

 

 

So you know: Debt Collectors have no actual official powers. They are not allowed to harass you by letter, over the phone or on your doorstep without permission. The only time they can do this is if a court has appointed them with a court order to recover the debts. Again, this is why knowing your rights is very important as Debt Collectors will play on this.

 

you can also protect your self legaly by looking at the The limitations act 1980 sec 5

 

 

 

Now even i know if you have had a min of 4 years and up to 6 years gap from one correspondence to the next, then it does come under the stature barred, also they have no proven to you that "You" are the depter, but are shooting in the dak due to the fact that your las colleges did not inform or do the right thing by removing your name after you left, hence them pulling a fast one.

 

I agree with everything people are saying, as i have a issue like this a few years ago 2 to be exact i called the DCA and also the people who inforced the DCA, i told them the in and out and , in the end they admitted fault, and i told them categorically if they contact me again i will press charges for harassment.

 

 

I also found out any dept is on some system and dept collection agencies seem to pluck out a list and then go after them thinking they are above the law, using hard tactics to get money, by turning up on your doorstep, i suggest doing some research online and your be surprised what you can do in stopping this, i my self am having a issue with the DVLA and a dept collection agency for £80, and am seeing my Mp Steven Hammond on Monday morning.

 

 

good luck and remember, as from 2007 it stopped being your problem

Edited October 26, 2012 by ims21

[bigshoes...bigsocks]

Now even i know if you have had a min of 4 years and up to 6 years gap from one correspondence to the next, then it does come under the stature barred, also they have no proven to you that "You" are the depter, but are shooting in the dak due to the fact that your las colleges did not inform or do the right thing by removing your name after you left, hence them pulling a fast one.

 

Not quite true - it becomes statute barred after 6 years from either last payment or written acknowledgement of the debt. However, the burden of doubt is indeed on them to prove you owe the money - not on your to prove you dont.

[Sharps58]

Apologies, post removed as erroneous statement was made

Edited November 9, 2012 by Sharps58
Erroneous statement made

[Sharps58]

Update!

I sent the "Prove It" letter to Rockwell on the 21 September (sent "Signed For", and I have proof that they received it). I heard nothing for a month then on 20 October I received another letter from Rockwell saying, "Despite our previous correspondence the above debt remains unpaid". They have given me 7 days to pay or they will either commence court action or I will get a visit from a debt collector. This latest letter of theirs was unsigned.

 

I sent them another "Prove it" letter. They have completely ignored it and sent me a letter telling me that they are referring the whole thing to Fenton Cooper who will be taking me to court.

[Bandit127]

Send Rockwell a formal complaint that:

You deny any liability for this debt.

They have failed to respond to your letter of 21st Sept.

They have failed to provide any evidence of your liability for the debt.

They have also failed to provide any information that allows you to either verify the sums are correct or establish that they have the right to claim any sum at all.

That the account is therefore in dispute.

That you care fully aware of the OFT guidance on debt collection and any further recovery activity on this account will be provide matter for further complaints to the relevant authorities.

As soon as you get a letter from Fenton Cooper, send them a reply disputing the account with a copy of the letter to Rockwell.

 

They ignored your prove-it letter - complain to the OFT and Trading Standards.

[Sharps58]

Send Rockwell a formal complaint that:

You deny any liability for this debt.

They have failed to respond to your letter of 21st Sept.

They have failed to provide any evidence of your liability for the debt.

They have also failed to provide any information that allows you to either verify the sums are correct or establish that they have the right to claim any sum at all.

That the account is therefore in dispute.

That you care fully aware of the OFT guidance on debt collection and any further recovery activity on this account will be provide matter for further complaints to the relevant authorities.

As soon as you get a letter from Fenton Cooper, send them a reply disputing the account with a copy of the letter to Rockwell.

 

 

 

 

They ignored your prove-it letter - complain to the OFT and Trading Standards.

 

 

@Bandit127. Thank you, I've done just as you suggest (and copied in/complained to OFT & Trading Standards). I'll let you know what happens in due course.

[Sharps58]

Rockwell have failed to furnish me with any proof of assignment by Lloyds TSB and cannot therefore demonstrate to my satisfaction that they have any right to collect anything on behalf of Lloyds TSB.

I have now received a letter from another company called Wescot saying that THEY are working on behalf of Lloyds TSB.

I wonder what on earth is going on here?