Council Tax, Bailiffs, Lyme's Disease

[zenfrog]

Dear All,

 

Your advice please:

 

I fell in to arrears on my Council Tax during the first 3 or 4 months of 2012 (April, May, June) due to contracting Lyme's disease (potentially life threatening condition) and being incapacitated at the time. I was off work too, and staying with family, during this time. I have also had to resign my teaching post so as to focus on my recovery and will supply teach from next term, instead (major salary drop).

 

By mid August I had payed ALL my council tax for the year 2012/13 (via the council tax website - with receipts by email - rather than via the bailiffs as the council had requested).

 

I however, have had stroppy/agressive demands from the Bailiffs for payment of their fees (£150 for what?) which I told the council (in a phone call) I objected to. Including the mention of lockmiths and lock breaking, as far as I can tell I have had only 2 letters by post (one since paying the total bill) and no evidence of hand delivered letters.

 

The council have so far refused to respond to an email I sent them on the 29th of March warning them of my above situation and that I was away from my property while I recovered and that I could only receive emails not post. (Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the auto-responder, to prove delivery).

 

Immediately after I paid the council tax online I sent the council an email with the word "complaint" in it together with medical evidence of my condition during those months (I have the auto-responder). On the day I paid I also spoke to the bailiff (via phone, blocking my number) so as to tell him I had paid the full council tax and mentioning my lyme's disease.

 

As of nearly 2 weeks after the above email to the council, as yet no response, I have also got yet another demand for the bailiff fees, from Equita, with a another fee hike.

 

Given I am still ill and not totally fit - this added stress is totally unhelpful.

 

What should my next steps be?

 

Many thanks in advance of your replies.

Edited September 9, 2012 by zenfrog

[ims21]

Thread moved to Bailiff forum where the guys will be happy to help as soon as they are available

[ploddertom]

Have the Council confirmed that you have discharged your liability to them? Prior to paying the debt in full, how many visits had the Bailiff made? Have you asked the Bailiffs for a breakdown of the charges they are claiming?

[shootop1]

Have the Council confirmed that you have discharged your liability to them? Prior to paying the debt in full, how many visits had the Bailiff made? Have you asked the Bailiffs for a breakdown of the charges they are claiming?

 

When you say discharged, what do you mean?

 

Not wanting to hijack this thread, but this is something I am worried about too (bailiff coming after me for fees after debt has already paid).

 

If I / OP ring the council tomorrow, and say "have you discharged my liability" and the person on the phone says "what?" what exactly should we say to them to get them to confirm what you're saying. Can we ask the council to send us something in writing?

[caledfwlch]

If the council says liability has been discharged, the Bailiff cannot use his Bailiff powers, or the liability order purely for his fees. He can be told to go forth and multiply, and would be extremely silly to claim the liability order still allows him powers, especially if you were able to covertly record him saying so

 

If he wanted his fees he would have to try and get a CCJ, and for some reason they never do. Can't think why they wouldn't want a judge looking over their fees and "evidence" of how they earned them

[shootop1]

Rang the council and asked if the liability order had been discharged. They said the only thing they could send me was a statement of account. Said they couldn't send me anything saying 'satisfied' as that only applied to CCJs.

 

They also thought the money I paid had come from the bailiff even though I paid the council directly.

 

Would be interested to see if the OP has better luck.

[Feebee_71]

I would contact the council and ask them if they can now confirm the current balance owing to them against the liability order and if they could please send you confirmation of that amount.

 

Hopefully they will, by doing this, confirm that the balance is now nil or what is owed which should only relate to any fees due to the bailiff company if they have paid it out to them from the money you paid to the council.

 

Feebee_71

[tomtubby]

I am sorry but this query is a very common one and in particualr so when people pay the council as opposed to the bailiff.

 

The legal position is very difficult to understand and I will try to explain.

 

Unlike most bills, with council tax the legislation provides that from all payments made the bailiff fees are to deducted FIRST.

 

Technically speaking when you paid the council direct, they could have credited the bailiff companies account with the fees but have not done so.

 

As bailiff fees are deducted FIRST, this means that if for instance a Liability Order had been for £1,500 and bailiff fees had been £150 ( for example) then if you had paid £1,500 to the council, the local authority should credit £1,350 towards the Liability Order and £150 towards bailiff fees.

 

The effect of this is that there is still an unpaid amount of £150 due under the Liability Order and the bailiff is legally entitled to therefore continue with enforcement OF THE BALANCE OF THE LIABILITY ORDER.

 

In your case, the bailiff is claiming that the debt is £150. You need to check with the council for the precise amount of the LO and establish why the bailiff fees are £150.

 

Unless a levy was made upon goods, the fees are capped at a maximum of £42.50

 

PS: This same problem is very common indeed when a person decides to pay the council instead of a bailiff.

[brassnecked]

I am sorry but this query is a very common one and in particualr so when people pay the council as opposed to the bailiff.

 

The legal position is very difficult to understand and I will try to explain.

 

Unlike most bills, with council tax the legislation provides that from all payments made the bailiff fees are to deducted FIRST.

 

Technically speaking when you paid the council direct, they could have credited the bailiff companies account with the fees but have not done so.

 

As bailiff fees are deducted FIRST, this means that if for instance a Liability Order had been for £1,500 and bailiff fees had been £150 ( for example) then if you had paid £1,500 to the council, the local authority should credit £1,350 towards the Liability Order and £150 towards bailiff fees.

 

The effect of this is that there is still an unpaid amount of £150 due under the Liability Order and the bailiff is legally entitled to therefore continue with enforcement OF THE BALANCE OF THE LIABILITY ORDER.

 

In your case, the bailiff is claiming that the debt is £150. You need to check with the council for the precise amount of the LO and establish why the bailiff fees are £150.

 

Unless a levy was made upon goods, the fees are capped at a maximum of £42.50

 

PS: This same problem is very common indeed when a person decides to pay the council instead of a bailiff.

 

This is exactly why the enquiries to the council and the Acme letter to bailiffs is important to establish what they are charging and to challenge where appropriate, and also the addition of the £42.50 visit fees in any settlement direct to council, as if all the other fees are proved to be void, the visit fees may well stand, so it is better to factor them in to get rid of the bailiff. if they also were void, for whatever reason, the money can go against the current years liability.

[Leakie]

I understand what TT is saying,

In my case I paid the council they provided me with a printout of the Balance of that years CT

And told me that I would have to pay the Bailiffs fee myself.

I asked the bailiff and the council for a breakdown of the fees

I recieved a £00.00 Balance owed for the LO and nothing else from the Bailiff company,

I was charged £252 in Bailiff fees on a first visit.

 

I think it may correct what TT says but may be there are different agreements with individual councils.

 

Leakie

[brassnecked]

I understand what TT is saying,

In my case I paid the council they provided me with a printout of the Balance of that years CT

And told me that I would have to pay the Bailiffs fee myself.

I asked the bailiff and the council for a breakdown of the fees

I recieved a £00.00 Balance owed for the LO and nothing else from the Bailiff company,

I was charged £252 in Bailiff fees on a first visit.

 

I think it may correct what TT says but may be there are different agreements with individual councils.

 

Leakie

 

They must have removed the fees when they knew they had been rumbled front loading fees. I think they would be most reluctant to swear they were all correct and kosher if they were to chase you in County Court for them.

[Leakie]

May be I was Lucky with Equita

But my point was not all councils do as the should, as in TT post 8

I agree with TT

But if a council wants to work this way then why not take advantage of it.

 

Leakie

Edited September 12, 2012 by Leakie
Fat fingers hitting 2 keys at once

[Leakie]

Just to ad to my post above

I was/am willing to pay Lawful fees.

 

Leakie