Housing Benefit and Income Support Overpayment - due in Court next week

[hine moa]

I have been summonsed to Court on the 18th September, received the documents today. Do they deliberately send such things out on a Friday so you can spend the weekend a wreck whilst waiting to get legal advice?

 

I attended an Interview under Caution some months ago in relation to overpayment of Housing Benefit and Income Support. The discrepancies arose when I became a student in 2008 when I started a three year degree course. In amongst a hectic life bringing up two children, one of whom is Autistic I crawled my way through three years of hard slog and totally forgot to inform the benefits of my student loans. Writing this and looking back all I can think is 'you stupid cow, what were you thinking', but that's just it, I don't think I was thinking straight.

 

Back in 2005 I left an abusive man, the father of my two eldest, I had to make us 'homeless' as he wouldn't leave the marital home and staying there was making me ill and fearful for my safety (it was very remote). The divorce happened fairly quickly and he was made to pay me my share of the house, the proceeds of which I was then forced to live off. It was in 2007 that I started claiming Income Support and Housing Benefit.

 

I still lived my life in fear of him, for a good few years he had no idea where I lived, I would meet him away from my home to hand over the children for his access. He messed them and me around constantly, refusing to see them one week then the next week he'd be demanding to have them for longer. None of this was done amicably, it was all done in threatening text messages or phone calls where he would 'tell' me what was going to happen. He made every area of my life impossible, he reported me directly to social services on more than one occasion when he saw that was having no effect he went to the Doctors and made some terrible claims to him about my son being abused by my new boyfriend. Luckily my Doctor realised that these claims were a revenge attack and when he reported what had been said to social services he also added in that he felt the claims were false given his patients unstable nature.

 

Meanwhile for some mad reason I thought it would be liberating to attend uni and earn a degree, prove to myself that I wasn't thick and actually had a brain after years of being run down and told 'you're useless'. I waded through tonnes of coursework and essays, each year just got more and more bogged down, I existed through each day doing the bare minimum by way of housekeeping, beating myself up all along the way that I was somehow damaging my children by not providing a spotless home and a home cooked meal every night. The first year started with my ex husband having the children every weekend, therefore the weekends were spent studying.

 

Then something went wrong and suddenly the children wouldn't go to their dad any more, just a complete blank refusal to go. With that comes a tonne of abuse from him that I'm poisoning the children and stopping them going to him, far from it, I needed the free weekends to get through all the study. The first year and a half I had the children 24/7 then eventually they started visiting him again but on an every other weekend basis.

 

Before I know it I'm headed into my third year of study and it's like wading through treacle. I've spoken to a tutor and told her I can't do it any more, I'm exhausted but she's good at the pep talk and the we'll help you every way we can with extensions etc. I'd also been in a relationship with an older man for a few months but that fizzled out and I ended it feeling it had nowhere to go. Term begins and lo and behold I discover in the November, two weeks before my 40th birthday that I'm pregnant. I thought I was exhausted before but the exhaustion that sets in now is unbelievable. I miss most of my remaining seminars and seem to spend all day sleeping. I get the required amount of essays done for the first half of that year and then we swing into the remaining half of the year being for dissertation. By this time I am fit for nothing, and I applied for a deferral to complete the dissertation after the birth of the baby in the June.

 

At no time during all this did I ever imagine I'd committed benefit fraud, I admit that for years I didn't open my post and looking back now I can see that I seemed to just be a complete wreck bumbling from one day to another, I still am now. I'm thoroughly ashamed of myself and go from being angry with myself to just feelings of numbness. At the end of the day I omitted to inform them of my student loans. No one to blame but me.

 

Nowhere on the paperwork does it give an overall figure of overpayments, money is already being taken from my benefits to start paying back what I've been overpaid. From what I can see it amounts to around £6000. I've admitted guilt, I've received the money and I failed to keep them updated, making it clear that I didn't set out to commit fraud, I was not rubbing my hands together thinking how wonderful it was to get benefits and student loans.

 

The Court date falls on the week I am away in Scotland, my brother has booked a week away for himself, me and my sister to celebrate her 50th birthday. Now I'm worried I'll have to cancel going on the holiday, can a solicitor appear on my behalf?

 

Worried about the outcome, have seen other threads mentioning suspended sentences etc, I have a one year old, a nine year old and a fifteen year old autistic lad, their world will fall apart if anything happens to me.

Edited September 8, 2012 by hine moa

[DanscoCAB]

Sorry but could you space out the paragraphs and make a few more so it's easier to read. It's currently too condensed. People will want to help but your post is too bunched up and long.

[Nystagmite]

Nowhere on the paperwork does it give an overall figure of overpayments, money is already being taken from my benefits to start paying back what I've been overpaid.

 

You need to ask for this in writing.

[hine moa]

Sorry but could you space out the paragraphs and make a few more so it's easier to read. It's currently too condensed. People will want to help but your post is too bunched up and long.

 

I'm sorry, I think I just spewed out a load of waffle, needed to get it off my chest, only one other person knows what is going on and what a mess I'm in. Hopefully it's a bit easier read now.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome.

 

Thank you for the edit. Hopefully we'll be able to help you.

 

My best, HB

[abc123def]

I'm confused. I completed a degree in 2010 as a single parent and got full HB and CTB throughout as they didn't take my student loans into account. So did other single parent students on my course so I can't understand why your student status caused an overpayment.

[hine moa]

I'm confused. I completed a degree in 2010 as a single parent and got full HB and CTB throughout as they didn't take my student loans into account. So did other single parent students on my course so I can't understand why your student status caused an overpayment.

 

Did you get Income support too?

 

When the children go to bed I will take a look at the reams of paperwork that arrived today, every time I try to look I've got a child looking over my shoulder.

[hine moa]

Helloo by the way, and thanks for your responses so far by the way. I don't mean to be quite so rude.

[abc123def]

No, I wasn't entitled to Income Support. Sorry, I've just reread your thread, I'd totally missed the IS bit and thought the problem was just HB and CTB. Yes, the IS may well be an overpayment then sorry.

[DanscoCAB]

Have you actually spoken to anyone about this situation? Like Advice service or solicitor?

 

Your post is a lot easier to read now

[hine moa]

Have you actually spoken to anyone about this situation? Like Advice service or solicitor?

 

Your post is a lot easier to read now

 

I had a solicitor that deals with these types of cases with me at the Interview under Caution. I obviously need to contact her first thing on Monday.

 

My first worry is can the court date be re-arranged given that I'm meant to be on a pre-booked holiday. If not and I have to cancel then the sooner I tell my brother the better. Although how bad is that going to be, he's organised, booked and paid for it and surprised myself and my sister with the news that we are going, no questions asked, for me to then turn around and say I can't go.

 

Have been reading through the acres of paperwork again, there are two summonses. Nowhere does it say what the full amount is, there is a figure on one of the pages but it's less than £2000, I'm pretty sure it's more than that. Why don't they make things clear, they make a huge effort to confuse and muddle people with every letter they send out. Even their letters telling you what you are eligible for are designed to confuse lol

[hine moa]

Sick to the stomach today, a total nervous wreck. Have spent the afternoon with brother and sister and couldn't bring myself to tell them I'm due in court.

They've spent the afternoon saying 'this time next week...' etc etc which just makes me feel sicker.

[hine moa]

Have called my solicitor at 9am but she wasn't in the office. Note taken to call me back, I didn't say it was urgent and wondered if I should have. Still waiting for a call back.

 

Is it ok for me to call the court and try to re arrange the date, although that seems futile as if they will let me change it I could choose a day my solicitor can't make.

 

I'm up under a 111(1A) Charge if that makes sense to anyone. I just keep reading it and getting more and more confused.

[hine moa]

Sent off evidence of booked flights for our trip away and the court has moved the date until 28th September.

 

This is at a magistrates court, do they deal with me there and then? Or is this going to go on forever.

 

Solicitor rang at a time I was in the middle of a supermarket so couldn't ask her anything.

[abc123def]

Oh that's good you managed to postpone.

 

No idea about the court procedure sorry, hopefully someone will come and answer soon.

[hine moa]

Oh that's good you managed to postpone.

 

No idea about the court procedure sorry, hopefully someone will come and answer soon.

 

Thank you, really worried I could end up in prison now, reading around other similar stories doesn't really help matters at all.

 

Wondering if no ideas on what happens next is because the outcome is just bleak.

[jadeybags]

Magistrates court have less powers to imprison people. It's a good thing it's magistrates. Hopefully it'll stay there. It's rare to go to prison, especially for 6k.

[hine moa]

Magistrates court have less powers to imprison people. It's a good thing it's magistrates. Hopefully it'll stay there. It's rare to go to prison, especially for 6k.

 

If I plead guilty to the magistrates will it end there I wonder.

 

Thank you for responding I'm in a right state, I want to go and get it over with, I'm already very low and have been for a while and now this is making me physically ill. Being low in the first place is what has caused all this mess.

[45002]

If I plead guilty to the magistrates will it end there I wonder.

 

Thank you for responding I'm in a right state, I want to go and get it over with, I'm already very low and have been for a while and now this is making me physically ill. Being low in the first place is what has caused all this mess.

 

You done the correct thing by contacting a Solicitor.

 

No one on CAG can say what will actually happen at the magistrates court,the case could be sent to Crown court or dropped ?

 

Your Solicitor will be best placed to advise you and represent you in court and please Do turn up in court on time and the date they have told you to appear.

 

Try and relax or see your GP for help in relaxing...

 

Good Luck

Edited September 13, 2012 by 45002

[hine moa]

You done the correct thing by contacting a Solicitor.

 

No one on CAG can say what will actually happen at the magistrates court,the case could be sent to Crown court or dropped ?

 

Your Solicitor will be best placed to advise you and represent you in court and please Do turn up in court on time and the date they have told you to appear.

 

Try and relax or see your GP for help in relaxing...

 

Good Luck

 

Thank you, have seen a GP, he doesn't think I'm depressed but low due to circumstance, even though I said I've been 'low' for around two years or more, he didn't seem bothered by that.

 

Have had to send off legal aid forms so still waiting to know that I am entitled then I may feel a bit more sure about ringing the solicitor to ask a load of questions.

I think she was surprised it's at the magistrates as I know when I had my interview under caution she told me that the court is just full of benefit cases every single Thursday. So when I said to her that the case was originally on the Tuesday she said 'oh that's odd' but didn't say any more. At the time I was too worried about having to cancel a week away that's meant to for my sis's 50th!

So now I'm wondering why isn't it at the Crown Court instantly like other cases seem to be.

[hine moa]

Have done the week away, pretending that all is ok

Better speak to my Doctor this week too, he knows I am low and wanted me to tell family whilst away but I couldn't. It's the shame of it all, no one in our family has ever been in trouble like this before

Also have a letter stating that yes, I am entitled to legal aid, now to sort childcare for my 15 month old, can hardly ask a family member without giving a reason why.

I keep thinking this time next week it will all be over... but then, will it?

Edited September 22, 2012 by hine moa

[abc123def]

At least you will know where you stand and won't be worrying about what ifs that might never happen. Hang in there, you will get through it.

[sunny jim]

s111A is an either way dishonesty charge so could be heard at Magiistrates or Crown. So if you wanted you could insist on a Crown Court Trial & deny dishonest intentions. When an overpayment is over £25,000 then the magistates have to refer the case to Crown for sentencing. As your intention appears to be pleading Guilty at the earliest opportunity it should stay at Magistrates. However it is unlikely to be done & dusted in a day. The court will usually request a probation report to consider your suitablility for community work - so expect to be bailed for a fast delivery probation report & then return for sentencing. The magistrates will reduce the sentence by 1/3 for an early guilty plea.

[abc123def]

They may not take it to court though. My friend's overpayment was £34,000 and it's not gone to court. She is paying what she can now and it will take her forever to pay. At the end of the day court would not have got anyone any more money than she is paying.

[sunny jim]

Sorry abc123def but I can't see what your mate has got to do with it. Hine Moa has clearly stated in her earlier posts that she has received a summons to appear at magistrates court to answer charges under s111A Social Security Administration Act. If she fails to attend they will issue a warrant of arrest.