Help Notice of Distress (Removal happening today)

[tomupton]

Hi There All,

 

Could really do with some help here.

 

This morning ive had a bailiff arrive at my door demanding a figure of £1740.00

 

This is for council tax, the problem they sent me a letter which i unfortunately forgot to open which as led to them now issuing a notice of distress and planning to remove good this afternoon.

 

The main issue is the amount they are demanding is incorrect (not the bailiffs fee's, but what the council are requesting) and there has been an error from the council. Today the council offices are closed and the bailiff has explained they are still coming to remove goods.

 

Im a single tennant in a property and for some reason the council hasnt applied the 25% discount

 

What can i do here?

 

Thank in advance

 

Tom

[wonkeydonkey]

Have they been in your house previously and levied on your goods? if so can you list the goods on which they have levied?

 

WD

[tomupton]

Hi WD,

 

This is the first time they have entered, they sent a letter to me last week, but i totally forgot to open it! (It was one of those letters that didnt exactly stand out that it was from bailiffs)

 

The concern i have is with the dispute of how much is actually owed. Im aware im behind on the payments and would be happy to setup a payment arrangement but as explained in my previous email the council have charged me incorrectly. Their offices are closed today so i cant even speak to them about it which is the worst thing about it all.

 

The bailiff isnt prepared to do anything and there is no way i can come up with that sum of money today.

 

Regards

Tom

[tomupton]

Forgot to mention yes they have listed my goods this morning and said they would return around midday ish

 

Have they been in your house previously and levied on your goods? if so can you list the goods on which they have levied?

 

WD

[outlawla]

Hi t welcome to CAG.

 

Unfair as it seems, the council's mistake will not have any bearing on them instructing the bailiffs. It is unfortunately written into the council tax regulations that they can make these errors and still pursue recovery action while these issues are in dispute.

 

Therefore I suggest the focus should be on keeping the bailiffs out, and possibly highlighting any malpractice of the bailiff as potential ammunition for a formal complaint against the council.

 

It is important not to allow them into your home. Don't even answer the door to them, or deal with them in any way. You are not legally obliged to.

 

Others will help further.

 

 

EDIT:

 

I see they already are.

[tomupton]

Thank you for all your help.

 

Ive just spoken to the bailiff on the telephone, and he has postponed it until monday next week. Atleast this gives me a bit of time to find some funds but to also take up the dispute with the council.

 

He explained to me on the telephone they would still not be able to setup a payment plan at this stage which i feel is quite unfair. Im currently on a debt management plan and i dont know if that will give any bearing on the situation?

 

I suppose atleast they arent recovering goods today which is a good thing, but im not too sure whatelse i can really do here?

 

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

In the nicest way i was polite and professional with the bailiff and he was the same back to me. He could see my situation that im in but said it was out of his hands.

 

Even though he has entered my property today, if im correct if he does return he can break entry?

 

Regards

Tom

[tomupton]

p.s. They are charging £292.50 Attendance, and then £65 Levy that does seem extremely high to me? Is that the standard fee's they would charge?

[wonkeydonkey]

Your dispute with the Council can wait until Monday,your biggest problem is dealing with the bailiff. Bailiffs are not interested in the Council overcharging you there only interest is acting on the Liability Order they hold.

IF they do come back later today.(and I doubt they will)....If you own a car with no finance owing I suggest you move it to a street a good 10 mins walk from your house. if they have not been inside your home to levy on goods and if there is nothing outside your home they can levy upon, then simply do not open the door to them, they cannot force entry without a court order despite that they will tell you the LO permits them to do so, they cannot arrest you or put your goldfish into care...best to always remember bailiffs lie. There is no law to say you have to deal with a bailiff or indeed even speak with them.....

 

WD

Edited September 1, 2012 by wonkeydonkey

[tomupton]

Thank you so much for all your advice here, i really appreciate it! Luckily i dont drive its the other goods in my house im worried about. I work from home unfortunately so most of the goods here are what i use for business

[Sparks_]

Wonkey I think the bailiffs have already been into this gentlemans home, Tomupton what did they list on the levy please? These bailiffs cannot be trusted to act honestly and have been known to over charge and levy goods that are exempt and or dont cover the amount owed.

[wonkeydonkey]

p.s. They are charging £292.50 Attendance, and then £65 Levy that does seem extremely high to me? Is that the standard fee's they would charge?

 

If they have not levied ..and you keep them out... then the fees are 1st visit £24.50 2nd visit £18 total £42.50.hence the reason for my Q's post #2 . ..we need the bigger picture before we can advise you further to keeping them at bay.

[outlawla]

There's no wonder the bailiff was being polite. As he was explaining to you it was out of his hands, his eyes were lighting up with $ signs due to the £357.50 he was adding to your bill as he spoke.

[tomupton]

Hi there,

 

They have listed things like my Mountain Bike, LCD TV, DVD Player, AV Amp, and DVD's. Luckily my mountain bike is worth quite a bit of money which should cover most of what is owed.

 

Wonkey I think the bailiffs have already been into this gentlemans home, Tomupton what did they list on the levy please? These bailiffs cannot be trusted to act honestly and have been known to over charge and levy goods that are exempt and or dont cover the amount owed.

[Queens_king]

You say that the LO is for £1740. In that case the Bailiff will have to levy £17,000 or more as the price you think you can get for items are not what you will actually get at auction.

 

If he has not levied for that amount then I would suggest that he is garnering fees for himself and the company he works for

[wonkeydonkey]

If you owe £1750 they will need to levy upon goods worth approx £17,000 to achieve the debt, their fees, removal fees, storage fees and auction fees.

If we can establish the levy was made purely to garner them extra beer money ( the goods levied upon are of insufficient value to meet the above) then you call that levy into dispute...also not that they will tell you this but...they have to give you time between the levy taking place and any removal of goods to raise the amount owed and that is 5days??

[outlawla]

Hi there,

 

They have listed things like my Mountain Bike, LCD TV, DVD Player, AV Amp, and DVD's. Luckily my mountain bike is worth quite a bit of money which should cover most of what is owed.

 

I get the impression that you would rather them settle the debt with the levied items???

 

Something to remember is that auction sale value will typically be around a fifth of the true value. So, for example, if you think all your goods are worth around £2,000, the expected auction sale would be about £400.

 

Can you list previous bailiff action, for example visits, dates and amounts incurred.

 

If the bailiff does turn up, take a note of what vehicle he arrives in. It would need to be something really substantial to warrant a cost of £292.50. This cost has to be reasonably incurred according to the Council Tax Regulations.

[tomupton]

Thanks again for your advice.

 

I would say the value of all the items if sold second hand right now would probably come to no more than about £1100 ish max.

 

From my understanding what WD has just said below, they should give me 5 days from today? or 5 days after the goods have been taken?

 

If you owe £1750 they will need to levy upon goods worth approx £17,000 to achieve the debt, their fees, removal fees, storage fees and auction fees.

If we can establish the levy was made purely to garner them extra beer money ( the goods levied upon are of insufficient value to meet the above) then you call that levy into dispute...also not that they will tell you this but...they have to give you time between the levy taking place and any removal of goods to raise the amount owed and that is 5days??

[tomupton]

Here is my breakdown:

 

council tax - £1383.23

Levy - £65

Attendance - £292.50

Total: £1740.73

 

The only other correspondence ive had from them was a hand posted letter which came in the middle of last week. As explained unfortunatley i didnt open it (wish i had now)

 

All the goods listed have not had any values put next to them

 

 

I get the impression that you would rather them settle the debt with the levied items???

 

Something to remember is that auction sale value will typically be around a fifth of the true value. So, for example, if you think all your goods are worth around £2,000, the expected auction sale would be about £400.

 

Can you list previous bailiff action, for example visits, dates and amounts incurred.

 

If the bailiff does turn up, take a note of what vehicle he arrives in. It would need to be something really substantial to warrant a cost of £292.50. This cost has to be reasonably incurred according to the Council Tax Regulations.

[wonkeydonkey]

Over the weekend do not open the door to them and keep the house in lockdown

 

Monday

1..contact the Council and raise your dispute to the amount owed

2. get info from the Council to the LO.... see below

3. send the acme bailiff letter.....see below

Once you have all that info come back here and we can tell you the next steps.

Council

 

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

Bailiff.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[outlawla]

The levy fee of £65 would suggest that the liability order was for £1,480.

 

Is that correct?

 

EDIT:

 

I see you've posted that already. Only £2 overcharge then...

[tomupton]

Thank you for your reply.

 

My plan was to speak to the council on Monday anyway, the bailiff explained that he would be calling me on monday too once he had checked his end.

 

By me speaking to the council can this prevent the bailiff coming to seize my goods? The bailiffs im dealing with are Chandlers, i dont know if anyone else has had bad experience with them at all?

 

The letter above that i need to send to the bailiffs, should this be done via email or post? Also what is the purpose for sending this letter? (Sorry im just curious)

 

Thanks again

 

Tom

 

Over the weekend do not open the door to them and keep the house in lockdown

 

Monday

1..contact the Council and raise your dispute to the amount owed

2. get info from the Council to the LO.... see below

3. send the acme bailiff letter.....see below

Once you have all that info come back here and we can tell you the next steps.

Council

 

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

Bailiff.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[tomupton]

The break down i put above is how its laid out on the Chandlers document.

 

The Council Tax and the Levy would come to £1448.23

 

The levy fee of £65 would suggest that the liability order was for £1,480.

 

Is that correct?

 

EDIT:

 

I see you've posted that already.

[tomupton]

What i have picked up on is that when the bailiff paid his visit this morning he was addament that he would be returning this afternoon, but then when i spoke to him on the telephone he said he would double check things and come back to me on monday. Don't know if its just me but that does sound fishy that he changed his mind so soon?

[Ell-enn]

If you raise a formal written complaint with the council on Monday morning they should stop all bailiff action while your complaint is investigated. Take a letter to the council offices first thing monday morning - take another copy and get someone to sign it to say they've recieved it. If there is an email address on the council website for contacting the council tax dept send an email today marked "Urgent- Formal Complaint" then follow it up with handing in the letter to the offices.

 

Which council is it?

[outlawla]

The break down i put above is how its laid out on the Chandlers document.

 

The Council Tax and the Levy would come to £1448.23

 

 

This is how the levy fee is worked out, on a percentage of the liability order:

 

First £100 – £24.50

Further £400 – 4% (£16)

Next £1,500 – 2.5%

 

£65 less £40.50 = £24.50

 

£980 @ 2.5% = £24.50

 

£980 + £100 + £400 = £1,480