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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Metropolitan / HSBC Debt - Full & Final settlement offered, they've asked for increased offer


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Hello again - this is a similar situation to my previous post...I have made a full & final offer to repay approx £1600 to Metropolitan for a default HSBC card debt. The default will 'fall-off' early next year. I have been paying £55 per month. My circumstances have changed and I can no longer afford this so I have offered a reduced payment of £5 per month - or £600 as a Full and final settlement. I used the templates from CAG and advised this will only be paid if my file is marked as settled etc... ...this is their reply... can you guide me on what to do next? I am getting help from family and they may give me a little bit more but not a lot. Should I increase or stick to my guns?LetterfromMCSaskingforincreasedsettlementoffer.jpg

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tell us about the debt

 

dx

  • Confused 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi perhaps a rephrased offer along the lines of ''if this offer is unacceptable monthly payments will be drastically reduced or completely stopped.''

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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The debt is a credit card default from a few years ago after I was made redundant. The default is from December 2006 and so will drop off my record this December. The original debt was almost £5000 but I have reclaimed unfair charges (not PPI as I didn't have it on this account). I have since paid £55 per month and the debt is now approx. £1600.I'm happy to repay my debts and recognise my responsibilities - the help and support I have had from this site (and others) has been a genuine source of inspiration.

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IMHO, you should simply respond by advising that the original offer is not negotiable. Your offer was the maximum you can afford.

 

They either accept the £600.00 full and final and confirm that they wont pass on any balance or attempt to collect further themselves or they accept the £5.00 per month

 

Perhaps point out that the offer is open for say 14 days, when it will be offered to the next in line on your creditor list.

  • Confused 2

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello again - so I wrote and offered them a slightly higher (£650) settlement stating this was the maximum I can raise. Now they have replied with this asking for a full income and expenditure breakdown etc.I just want to pay them the settlement OR set up a reduced monthly payment... can you help & advise?many thanksTJLetter%20from%20MCS%20060912_zps240f7832.jpg

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They have no right to demand this information. However, I imagine they are unlikely to accept an offer without it.

 

IMHO, they are looking to see if you have paid off other creditors and how much they would be able to deprive you of by way of Instalments if they were not to accept the F&F.

 

Have you made offers to other creditors and have they accepted.

 

If you were to contact them with an I&E, you should not under any circumstances name your other creditors - simply put something like.. Creditor 1 - credit card, Creditor 2, unsecured loan, creditor 3 catalogue, etc.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I would simply write back and state the last offer was my final offer, if this is unacceptable then I now propose to pay you £1 a month due to my circumstances being such that the original payment of £55 a month is unsustainable

 

Take it or leave it

 

Regards

 

xxxxx

 

At the end of the day these parasites are only employees of the orignal creditor and have no real power over you

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what about sending a CCA to these jokers?

if they cant provide one, all you've got to do is wait for it to drop off

 

and you've saved £1600!

 

time to attack me thinks.

 

i'd pers never pay an F&F first without checking they are LEGALLY entitlted to the money.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The debt is a credit card default from a few years ago after I was made redundant. The default is from December 2006 and so will drop off my record this December. The original debt was almost £5000 but I have reclaimed unfair charges (not PPI as I didn't have it on this account). I have since paid £55 per month and the debt is now approx. £1600.I'm happy to repay my debts and recognise my responsibilities - the help and support I have had from this site (and others) has been a genuine source of inspiration.

 

Have you still got the original Default Notice issued by HSBC?

 

I had an HSBC credit card upon which they issued a DN to me on 19th Dec 2006 but which was defective due to not allowing the requisite 14 clear days (AFAIR that was the very day that the change from 7 days to 14 days became effective), thereby shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I wouldn't mind betting yours was also defective, which if it was, and you didn't remedy the default situation at the time, would preclude HSBC from successful court action. This could give you some extra leverage :wink:

 

Rob

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Thanks for your replies - I did an SAR some time ago and had a load of stuff sent through so I'll dig that out and take a look. In the meantime I've written back saying my offer is final and time limited. Hopefully they will take it or I pay a reduced monthly amount. the default will fall off my credit file in December anyway.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Afternoon all - further to the above string, I have recently been getting numerous calls from DG Solicitors but tell them every timeI will only communicate in writing. The finally caved in and sent this...FromDG021012.jpg...I am about to write back to advise I am not obliged to provide an income/expediture breakdown. As they have not provided an answer to my offer of settlement yet I will provide them a further two weeks to respond. Failure to respond will result in me setting up a standing order for £5 per month.Is this the correct approach?

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Usual HSBC trash, look their Default notices are faulty on most occassions from years ago, you must send CCA request to HSBC via Metro, they move to the next desk to the so Called D,G, non solicitors at the 1st sign of problems like yours for Northampton trail as they do not have to submit a CCA for that route, without haste,. send CCA request immediatly marking on the back of a Postal Order to CCA use only, play around with them at your own peril, so be warned!!

:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:
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I have the CCA

- I requested this a long time ago and am satisfied the debt is payable.

 

I have no intention on swerving it.

 

My issue now is that I offered a full and final settlement of £600 against a balance of £1600

or I would reduce my monthly payments from £55 to £5 per month due to a change of circumstances.

 

They replied declining the offer and asking for an increased settlement offer.

 

I increased this to £650 and now they are playing letter tennis with me asking for an income/expenditure breakdown before they will accept the reduced payment.

 

They have not yet given me a response to my increased settlement offer.

 

I've now written again giving them 14 days to respond either accepting the full & final offer or giving me account details to set up a S/O for a fiver a month.

 

It falls off my record in February anyway..

 

. you would think they would take the hint!

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Write statingb the following to their Compliance Manager.

Ref:xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Further to my most generous off of £xxx in Full & Final Settlement of this matter, your demand for an income and ependiture report is denied.

 

The Offer made is one I have seriously considered and believe reasonable, I am generously allowing you a further 7 days to consider my offer after which should you reject this offer I will revert to a payment of £5.00 per calendar month.

 

This Offer is dependant on the following conditions:

1. All adverse data is to be removed from all credit reference files.

2.The remaining balance must not be sold or assigned to any 3rd. party at any time in the future.

3. Your unequivical acceptance of this offer must be received by me within 7 days of the date of this letter and must be in writting.

 

This letter is sent by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery and receipt will be checked, I would suggest your response should be made in the same manner.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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  • 1 month later...

reduced balance - ignore them

 

its either all penalty charges

or

ppi

or there is no enforceable paperwork

 

end of debt

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Surely they are not permitted to encourage to raise funds from "other sources" ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Surely they are not permitted to encourage to raise funds from "other sources" ?

 

No OFT guidance section 3.7(b) pressuring debtors to raise funds by selling property of taking in further borrowing ( including extending existing borrowing)

Psychological or physical harassment.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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