Help with contesting an loading bay pcn (with possible bad wording)

[Elkee]

Hey one and all im hoping you can help me with a situation i have found myself in.

 

Yesterday i was given a parking fine for a code 25 "parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading". I feel i have grounds to appeal on several accounts :-

 

1 the signage was posted far away from the bays in question

2 the sign (the only one i eventually saw turned out to be the only one around the area) was facing aaway from the flow of traffic on a one way street.

3 the "restricted hours are monday to saturday 10.30am - 4.30pm and my ticket was issued at 7.40pm so not within restricted times

4 after reading around some sites i could be allowed to load/unload up to 20 minutes i was "observed" for 5

5 the nature of my unloading was to supply a public house with £200 worth of change and getting £200 in different note dividends back (i work in retail that was the only nearby retail outlet able to supply such change and we needed to make sure that neither me or the public house had miscounted etc)

 

Im going to take pics of the road sign tomorrow i just thought id ask for all of your opinions/guidance in writing my appeal

 

Thankyou

[Michael Browne]

What's the exact location?

[Elkee]

What's the exact location?

 

The side of the road allows for about 3 disabled vehicles andthen joins a loading only bay big enough for about 2 LGVs. i was within the loading bay area for about 10-15 minutes

[Michael Browne]

What's the exact location?

 

The side of the road allows for about 3 disabled vehicles andthen joins a loading only bay big enough for about 2 LGVs. i was within the loading bay area for about 10-15 minutes

 

That's not what I asked. What's the name of the road?

 

It can then be viewed on Google Streets, and we can get a much clearer picture of what we're dealing with.

[Elkee]

That's not what I asked. What's the name of the road?

 

It can then be viewed on Google Streets, and we can get a much clearer picture of what we're dealing with.

 

My apologies. The name of the street is Stone street in Gravesend (i just searched it up myself and theres a royal mail van parked roughly where i was parked its a one way street and the sign i was pointing out is alongside mcdonalds)

 

Sorry again i hope that helps?

[Jamberson]

That sign describes a loading ban - note the yellow chevrons on the kerb. Normally you can use yellow lines to stop and load/unload, but this sign and the chevrons prohibit that.

 

However, that's not where you parked, I don't think. As I understand it, you were in the loading bay further down the road. Is that correct?

 

Both bays have a sign saying loading only - nothing about times of day. That means they are for loading only, 24/7.

 

From your description of what you were doing, it doesn't sound like loading to me. You were changing money and counting it. I think you'll need to think of a better line of defence if you are to appeal it.

[Elkee]

I cant submit a link or attach a picture to show the fine clearly stating that the offence was done within restricted hours without loading (counteracting an assumption that the sign stating no loading between hours 10.30 and 16.30 or that it was a 24 hr loading section)

 

Surely the risk considered in walking all the way through down at 7pm with 200 pounds of 20ps 10ps 5ps pennies and pounds poses a risk of danger then the safety of my own car? gravesend isnt the best place to be waltzing around with a freddo let alone 200 pounds of money that doesnt belong to me =(

[sailor sam]

I cant submit a link or attach a picture to show the fine clearly stating that the offence was done within restricted hours without loading (counteracting an assumption that the sign stating no loading between hours 10.30 and 16.30 or that it was a 24 hr loading section)

 

Surely the risk considered in walking all the way through down at 7pm with 200 pounds of 20ps 10ps 5ps pennies and pounds poses a risk of danger then the safety of my own car? gravesend isnt the best place to be waltzing around with a freddo let alone 200 pounds of money that doesnt belong to me =(

 

I've tried this argument myself.... it didn't work. Carrying money is not considered to be loading/unloading.

[Elkee]

I've tried this argument myself.... it didn't work. Carrying money is not considered to be loading/unloading.

 

Hmmmmm could i not disclose that i was delivering money and get a statement from the duty manager of the business stating that i was delivering recieving goods of an important nature which wouldn't be advisable/feasible by foot?

 

Or/in addition to the non stating of restricted zone in restricted times thats simply not true?

[Jamberson]

You can try. Nothing to lose.

 

Why do you say the contravention is not true?

 

As I read it from your first post, the contravention was: "parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading".

 

"parked in a loading place" is correct

 

"during restricted hours" is correct

 

"without loading" is correct

[Elkee]

You can try. Nothing to lose.

 

Why do you say the contravention is not true?

 

As I read it from your first post, the contravention was: "parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading".

 

"parked in a loading place" is correct

 

"during restricted hours" is correct

 

"without loading" is correct

 

Parked yes

 

Loading/unloading i was technically but not observed

 

During restricted hours? most certainly not it was 7.30pm when the only mention of time restrictions was on a sign ages away from a bay (if that signage was applicable to the loading bay that it was closest to) Where it states loading is not permitted between 10.3am till 4.30pm monday to saturday. Doesnt a fine have to be precisely correct or is it a bit too petty? If i was doing it for my own gain/well being id be a little less fussed but the fine basically made my shift that day useless. Wishing i told the company to shove it now.

 

By reading these forums i knew that if anyone would be able to help it would be you guys and im desperately hoping theres something i can do because its money i simply dont have

[Michael Browne]

During restricted hours? most certainly not it was 7.30pm when the only mention of time restrictions was on a sign ages away from a bay (if that signage was applicable to the loading bay that it was closest to) Where it states loading is not permitted between 10.3am till 4.30pm monday to saturday.

Those signs apply to the double yellow lines further up the road, they are irrelevant since you were parked in a loading bay,where loading/unloading is allowed at any time. You were observed for 5 minutes without any loading/unloading seen.

 

Suggest you appeal on the basis that you were delivering a large quantity of coinage, don't say how much, which was heavy and bulky.

It will help if you have confirmation from the pub/employer.

 

But to be honest, it's unlikely to succeed.

[Elkee]

Those signs apply to the double yellow lines further up the road, they are irrelevant since you were parked in a loading bay,where loading/unloading is allowed at any time. You were observed for 5 minutes without any loading/unloading seen.

 

Suggest you appeal on the basis that you were delivering a large quantity of coinage, don't say how much, which was heavy and bulky.

It will help if you have confirmation from the pub/employer.

 

But to be honest, it's unlikely to succeed.

 

Okay so forgetting that sign further down the road agianst the flow of traffic even exists and no more said about it. I was parked in a loading bay where you say (theres nothing to contradict that) that loading or unloading is allowed at any time. So if im allowed to be unloading at anytime doesnt that void the allegation that im apparently parked within a restricted zone at a restricted time? Does it not have to be correct in all senses of the allegation or is it like saying "i robbed the bank on Tuesday not Thursday!"?

 

I'll get a letter of confirmation from the pub mentioning large coinage that would of deemed them rather difficult to serve patrons without it so it was deemed a significant priority.

[Elkee]

This is my letter that im going to be emailing to the council over the next couple of days once ive seen the duty manager and taken pics of where i was parked and signs (or lack thereof) are in respective to me. Have a ganders and tell me if its fair (all be it petty)

 

Dear Gravesham Borough Council

 

[Reference:

Penalty Charge Notice number: xxxxxx

Date of issue: 26/7/2012

Vehicle registration: x x x xx x

 

I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

 

On the 26th of July 2012 my vehicle was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason of parking within a loading place during restricted hours without loading.

 

In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. For several reasons which ill list and provide evidence where possible. Firstly the hours were not restricted (upon looking for the obscured sign-age which was facing in the opposite direction to the flow of traffic on a one way street.) The sign states that no loading is permitted Monday to Sunday during the hours of 10.30am-4.30pm. My alleged contravention took place at 19:38 therefore the wording of the penalty charge is incorrect as i was outside of any visible signed time restriction and although not observed my vehicle was important to my safety and security of myself and the delivery.

 

Secondly the nature of my unloading was a very large amount of coinage on behalf of the "Robert Pocock public house" (attached letter from the manager on duty who requested assistance) that was too significant and a risk to my personal safety and my workplaces profit and loss to deliver by foot or other methods of transportation and then walk to my workplace with a vast amount of pound notes that if anyone had seen me enter the building with and decided to follow me as i left (and not get straight back to my car). The delivery was quite fundamental to keeping the pub being able to serve patrons much longer unless all transactions were done by card or an exact note value and were unable to acquire coinage sooner due to being too busy/short staffed to do so.

 

Please find enclosed evidence to this effect, in the form of x,y,z

 

For these reasons i hope you'll consider and honour my appeal on this matter.

 

Yours sincerely,

Edited July 28, 2012 by havinastella
Reg and PCN showing

[dx100uk]

if you wish to post pix or docs use this:

 

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

or

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

.

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

.

dx

[Jamberson]

As you said above, no more mention of the sign which governs the yellow lines. It won't help your appeal. They will just point out that it's not relevant.

 

If it were me, I would forget the sign issue. The bay is signed correctly (assuming the plate saying "loading only" is still there). I would just focus on the coins, and say you had to park somewhere close for safety reasons, and parked where your vehicle would cause least impact to other motorists. You were as quick as possible, and had no intention of exploiting the space for unwarranted parking. That, plus your evidence, should give you a chance.

[Michael Browne]

 

 

 

 

 

In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. For several reasons which ill list and provide evidence where possible. Firstly the hours were not restricted (upon looking for the obscured sign-age which was facing in the opposite direction to the flow of traffic on a one way street.) The sign states that no loading is permitted Monday to Sunday during the hours of 10.30am-4.30pm.

Scrub. Agree with Jamberson. This is irrelevant as in my previous post.

 

My alleged contravention took place at 19:38 therefore the wording of the penalty charge is incorrect as i was outside of any visible signed time restriction .

Wrong. Loading is allowed 24/7, but parking is restricted 24/7. The CEO saw no loading activity, so as far as he was concerned you were parked during restricted times. The contravention is the correct one.Again scrub.

 

 

Secondly the nature of my unloading was a very large amount of coinage on behalf of the "Robert Pocock public house" (attached letter from the manager on duty who requested assistance) that was too significant and a risk to my personal safety and my workplaces profit and loss to deliver by foot or other methods of transportation and then walk to my workplace with a vast amount of pound notes that if anyone had seen me enter the building with and decided to follow me as i left (and not get straight back to my car). The delivery was quite fundamental to keeping the pub being able to serve patrons much longer unless all transactions were done by card or an exact note value and were unable to acquire coinage sooner due to being too busy/short staffed to do so.

I would emphasise the bulk and weight of the coinage and the fact that this had to be checked (which explains the 5 mins of no loading activity)

 

Even then I'd say your chances are not good.

[Elkee]

Even then I'd say your chances are not good.

 

Thankyou Michael and Jamberson for your time and advice. Im hopeful that i can catch the person considering my appeal in a good mood and id catch a break if i wanted to park and use the pub as a patron id happily hold my hands up and say "you caught me ill pay up" but its annoying that i was on shift for a company helping another business out that make tonnes of money between them which is not the situation im in. Just annoying. I was causing no harm to anyone there was only my car and a scooter to be seen i wasnt restricting anyone or anything just simply assisting another business who host our christmas parties.