Daniel Silvermans charges add to alleged debt as they threaten me with BR.

[MARTIN3030]

Also worth pointing out,is that DS are members of the Credit Services Association whose codes of practice (which members are expected to comply with) says this;

 

Codes & Standards

 

The CSA works for the benefit of those companies active in relation to unpaid credit accounts; debt recovery, tracing and allied professional services. As part of its function the CSA aims to promote best practice throughout the industry and has developed its Code of Practice to which all members must adhere.

This code is now the benchmark for Best Practice in the industry, assuring quality and professionalism in the services members provide.

Members should:

 

• Conduct business lawfully
  
• Conduct dealings with debtors in a fair and reasonable manner
  
• Maintain a high standard of business practice
  
• Compete in a fair and reasonable manner
  
• Ensure all staff are provided with adequate training
  
• Not discriminate
  
• Protect the reputation of clients
  
• Remit monies collected regularly to clients
  
• Not knowingly misrepresent qualifications, experience and abilities
  
• Handle debt cases in a fair and reasonable manner
  

[MARTIN3030]

Failure to uphold / follow codes of practice to which a business is subscribed to is a breach of Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008

[Halibutt]

Great info and support everyone. I hope Sarah reads it and finds it useful!

[sarahsacc]

Thanks for the advice 42man to answer your questions I am a sole trader only not a ltd company we can not find a copy of original T&C's so I may have to concede to that one? I have contacted the original supplier to discuss directly with them the situation but I'm not hopeful as an agreement had been reached but unfortunately instead of paying £500 on the 2nd week I paid £100.59 which is all I could afford at the time and then the next thing I know Daniels Silverman are emailing me Monday lunchtime!!

 

I therefore offered £50 per week and as you can see from the copied emails they were not best pleased with that and threatened me with personal bankruptcy - charming people:-x

 

I have also contacted Trading Standards to see what they have to say so watch this space.

 

I might be naive when it comes to Debt collection agency but once I got over the initial shock I donned my battle armour - I am now ready to rumble!!

 

Thank you all for all your advice and kind words - its awful to think that these people (parasites) make a living from this sort of thing!!!

[sarahsacc]

Thank you Halibutt read and understood - Knowledge is power - watch this space mowah ha ha!!!

[sarahsacc]

Hi Martin3030 the original debt was over £12,000 sent back over £5,000+ to reduce to original figure have paid £600.59 to date the balance after all this is shown on ealier pasted emails. Original supplier demanded £1000 per week to clear debt over 5 weeks I said I couldn't afford that so they suggested £500 per week I was able to pay this one week but was only able to pay £100.59 the following week due to low sales. I paid this last payment on thurs 21/06/12 on monday 25/06/12 was conatcted by DS with a FINAL demand for payment of over £8,000!?!

 

I rent my home no mortgage and my car is on HP no tangible assests either as buisness premises are rented also.

[sequenci]

Just to put your mind at rest, they are really not actually going to bankrupt you if you don't have any tangible assets. It would cost them a lot of money with the potential of not getting much of a return.

[sarahsacc]

I thought this after I had calmed down!! It was the very fact that in just 3 emails they were threatening away as you can see from my earlier posts. I did have to delete the relpy message several times as I really couldn't put to email what I was really thinking lol!

 

I will keep you all posted as to how it goes with the original supplier and whomever I can get to listen to me with regards to DS's conduct thus far!

 

Thank you all you have been a great help and inspiration to me

[sequenci]

Keep us posted, and good luck!

[sarahsacc]

Had a email from DS today saying that the suppliers do not want to deal with me and that I am to deal with them directly

 

Dear XXXXXXXX

 

Further to your email to our client, please find again their Terms & Conditions & also the copy credit note you requested. You will note from the Terms & Conditions that collection charges imposed by ourselves are included & thus legally recoverable, as is interest according to The Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998.

 

Our client wishes us to deal with this matter, please correspond with me from now on.

 

The email goes on to say that they have agreed to our payment proposal but I have had to offer £1000 every fortnight to keep them at bay. Am I not able to deal with the original supplier now then? Do I have to deal with them direct?

[MARTIN3030]

Well as has been pointed out,DS are expected to be compliant to codes of practice and fair business practices to which they are subscribed.

They are also holders of a Consumer Credit licence.

Although the OFT guidance on debt collection practices is applicable for issues under CCA,I think there is a case to argue that a holder of a CC licence should be seen to be operating and dealing with debtors in a fair and reasonable way.

Demanding repayments that are beyond the scope or means for a debtor to pay is certainly not fair business practice.

They have even added to the debt by the extra amounts they have levied,which represents an extraordinary amount.

There are some consumer regs which also apply to small /micro business.

[42man]

I have a feeling that when/if you pay Daniels Silverman then they will pocket their fees first. There is no legal assignment of debt as far as I can see. I suggest any repayments you pay directly to the company...

[MARTIN3030]

Yes agree completely.

I have personally helped 2 or 3 friends in business who have had problems with these.One was using their services for recovery of a bounced cheque.Despite paying lots to DS he ended up with nothing from DS and having to use the Police and Courts to get his money back.

The other 2 cases involved businesses where DS had got hold of ex equipment lease / rental agreements that had been defaulted on.

In both of those cases,a large amount was added and yo-yo'd up and down with discounts being offered.

In both cases their demands were ignored despite threats of BR and field agents/bailiffs.

[lookinforinfo]

Sarah is it possible you can post up their T&Cs on here since there are certain points that have to be included for Silverman [or any other DCA] to charge what they are trying to charge.

Both the T&CS and each invoice should include data to the effect that the supplier will use Late Payment legislation in the event that payments are late. Could you please therefore confirm

that each and every invoice you have ever had from them does include the Late Payment info.

 

However it is a moot point that the amount outstanding should still be considered as being late when it is obvious that the OP is not capable of paying the amount rather than

there being a temporary cash flow problem which is delaying payment.

 

If the debt still comes under the Late Payment legislation 2002 then the amount of interest should be 8% plus the Bank base rate -which currently stands at 0.5% ie 8.5%

and vat cannot be charged on the interest. There is a provision to charge a higher rate than 8% though I understand that it would require agreement from both parties or

some sort of prior notification from the supplier.

 

If you haven't spoken yet to Trading Standards, you could ask them about their higher charges with apparently no prior notice to you as well as whether Late Payemnt legislation

should be applying to you now.

[lookinforinfo]

Ah , I have just reread your earlier post to see that you have already written to TS. No problem, they will doubtless call you in a couple of weeks time or so and you can put further

points to them then.

 

Once you have posted the T&Cs plus confirmed what is stated on your invoices further advice can be given.

[sarahsacc]

hello again all.

 

Have contacted Local TS and they were very helpful and I'm now copying them in on all email sent between supplier, DS and myself so hopefully they will get the message that I mean business?

 

Did you mean the T&C's from my supplier or DS? Posting them maybe a bit of a problem as they are in PDF and indentify who the supplier is! Is there anyway I can put them up without showing this?

 

With regards to the invoices there was nothing on them to suggest that any re-stock fee would occur or even any debt recovery being employed? It just states a variety of days such as a ged debt days like 30, 60, 90, 120 and bank details of where to pay.

 

That's it nothing else!

 

Thanks once again to everyone for all your help so far it really is very much appreciated.

[MARTIN3030]

Hello Sarah,

If you can send the info to any site team via pm we can remove any identifiers.

[MARTIN3030]

I saw you dont have enough posts for pm,so you can send it via admin [email protected] and mark it fao site team.

[lookinforinfo]

Sarah, I did mean the T&Cs from your supplier.

However what Silverman is [over] charging you for comes under Late Payment Regulations which are designed, as I read it, to encourage/punish those people who are

deliberately delaying payment or have a short term cash flow problem. This is not the case with you and so I am unsure if those regulations are therefore appropriate

for you under the circumstances and would appreciate it if those more knowledgeable than myself on the matter could clarify.

[sarahsacc]

Hello again all.

 

Well here's the latest so far....

 

After contacting the supplier I had a very blunt message telling me to deal with DS directly and that I still needed to respond to an email that they sent last week!! When I wrote to my supplier I pointed out the bullying and scare tactics they are using and they really don't care judging by their reply which is really sad as we've put in-excess of £50,000 pounds worth of business their way in just over 12 months??? Please read below;

 

Dear XXXXXX

 

As is stated on our invoices - any overdue invoices will be placed in the hands of Daniel Silverman.

 

Daniel Silverman are now dealing with this matter and all correspondence and monies should be sent direct to them. I understand from them that they are waiting for you to reply to an email they sent on 28th June in respect of payment arrangements.

 

 

Regards

 

I was advised by TS to use DS's complaints procedure but as yet they have not responded? I'm due to make the first payment on wed this week but I have had little or no resolve from anyone (only yourselves) I have been advised to call the national debt line so will call them tomorrow to see what I can do.

 

Martin3030 I have emailed the T&C's as requested so please read the attached message can you also tell me where you can see any mention of DS on said invoices please?? I'm blowed if I can!

 

As it stands at the moment I feel I will have to make the payments as agreed as to default will cause more problems unless the NDL can act as a mediator as suggested by TS??

 

I think as far as the restock fees of 10% is concerned with said supplier I will have to conceed to that

 

Any ideas guys?

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks.

We have NDL the site I will alert them to pop in here,and see what can be done.

[lookinforinfo]

I am pleased that TS have contacted you so quickly and it is excellent that they are now in the loop.

It would be interesting to hear their views on whether Silverman can charge you so much as from the Legislation, it does read as if you

would need to have been aware of the extra costs beforehand, and that you were agreeable.

As far as the invoices are concerned, they are supposed to state that in the event of late payment that the supplier will invoke the

Late Payment charges rather than mention Silverman in particular.

 

Also it should be in the T&Cs so doubtless Martin will find it soon enough.

[sarahsacc]

Hello Again everyone My apologies to you all as I have just found the invoices relating to this particular supplier and it does indeed state at the bottom the TERMS which are 30 days from document date

it also states the following;

 

All overdue invoices will be referred to Daniels Silverman and will be subject to a surcharge of 15% plus VAT to cover the collection costs incurred. This surcharge together with all other legal fees incurred will be the responsibility of the customer and will be legally enforceable.

 

I was looking at the credit note that I had that I

 

So it would appear that I don't have a leg to stand on???

[MARTIN3030]

All overdue invoices will be referred to Daniels Silverman and will be subject to a surcharge of 15% plus VAT to cover the collection costs incurred. This surcharge together with all other legal fees incurred will be the responsibility of the customer and will be legally enforceable.

 

 

Just because its in their terms and conditions it does not mean that these charges are fair or in proportion.

For example how can 15% of an outstanding balance of £100 which with Vat would be £18.50 for DS for writing a couple of letters be considered fair to someone with an outstanding balance of £10,000 which would involve the same work from them yet give them a tidy earner ?

[BASFORDLAD2]

You really have nothing to be worried about with regards to DS

 

They like to threaten , intimidate etc but they will not doing anything, it is how their entire operation works, to intimidate people in to paying

 

You are in control of what you pay, you dont need to told what you pay.

 

So what i would do is pay the supplier directly and by pass DS.

 

Please dont be scared, the supplier would rather have some money from you rather then nothing, DS will soon go away when they realise you are not playing ball.