yes

NO! It was given to me on 09.08.12 but pre-signed to the 13.08.12 so I don't mean the other way around and I'm not overexcited! I posted on here because I'm looking to see if someone has guidance on whether or not a doctor can pre-date a Fitnote so if you do noty know then that is fine I'll wait until someone else in the know can answer my enquiry. Thanks for your help

Thanks for your comment but I think you have miss-read? The Fitnote was issued on 09.08.12 but was pre-dated to 13.08.12 3 days into the future. My question is: Is this allowed/legal? If the fitnote was issued on 09.08.12 and was handed to me on this date surely the time off required would be 1 week and 2 days? It was signed on 09.08.12 giving 1 week off so the return to work date for this person is tomorrow but the fitnotes assessment date was declared by the doctor to be 13.08.12 which is impossible as it was in my po cession before then. Surely this is not allowed as this is fraud???

I have an employee that hurt her back at home on 05.08.12. She came into work on 06.08.12 and started to work without mentioning the back injury when I asked her if she was ok she replied 'not really I've hurt my back' to which I immediately asked her if she wanted to go home. She insisted on staying after an hour and a half I could see she was struggling so i again suggested she went home - at this point she agreed that she couldn't continue and left. I didn't hear anything from her on the 07.08.12 and texted her on 08.08.12 to find out what was happening? She texted back to say that she couldn't get into the doctors until 10:50am the next day on 09.08.12. Later that day she brought in a Fitnote signing her off work for 1 week. Today I am entering the absence data into a program I have when I realised that the Fitnote is signed as 'I assessed your case on: 13.08.12' - This is where my problem lies! The date applied by the doctor to the Fitnote states the assessment date was 3 days after she was actually seen pre-dating the fitnote. The 'FROM' and 'TO' date has not been filled in on the form either it has only been marked as 'You are not fit for work' My question is this? How do I stand with this? I have phoned the doctors to see why they have pre-dated a Fitnote but the doctor who signed it was not available today. The Fitnote was actually signed and presented to me on 09.08.12 so how can the doctor write that the day of assessment was 3 days in advance? Is this legal? I've tried to find guidelines on the writing of Fitnotes by Doctors and I know that they can be back-dated but can they be pre-dated? Any advice would be most greatly received. Kindest regards

Just a quick note to bring you all up to speed so far; I have again contacted DS and requested a complete breakdown of the interest charges that have been added to the account (as advised) I have asked from when they were first applied and to what date they relate. I have also asked what was the interest rate used to calculate the sum of interest owed? To my surprise DS messaged back to say they have asked my supplier to furnish me with the requested information as they were ones the ones who applied the interest to the debt judging by the message received? I have also been told by DS that thye have been instructed to take full legal action if I default on any payments! It would seem that my supplier seems to be the organ grinder and DS are the monkeys? or is it a case that DS could be passing the buck?? They have been very polite in all communications since they have realised that TS are involved somewhere in all this but they do not know to what extent. (That's the way I want to keep it ) Any thoughts guys???

Hi there just to keep you all up-dated. MARTIN3030 I have looked at the website and telephoned the number shown after a lengthy conversation on the phone with these people in your link - http://www.bdl.org.uk/englandandwales.asp I am now in possession of some very thick literature to read through to see if the late payment regs apply to me? There's over 100+ pages I have heard back from DS after using their complaints proceedure and being ignored I emailed again and asked why I was being ignored - I also have the TS Lady copied in on every email now and the tone of the emails have changed although they maintain that what has been written is non threatening (OMG I did laugh at this) they also casually asked in what capacity TS was being involved to which I have neglected to answer lol! Under the instruction of the Business Debtline I have asked for a complete breakdown on when the interest was charged from and too and at what rate this was calculated. Surprise surprise they have yet to answer

I will address that point with them and let you all know what transpires Thank you all once again for great advice once again

I have emailed TS with regards to this matter and waiting for a response? Although that said they said I should speak to the National Debt Line as they would be better able to advise me so i will also try them on this legislation?

The chances of our business recovering are fair-good however it means that we have to tighten our belts further but it should all be resolved by mid August? Provided they don't inflate any other charges.

Hello Again everyone My apologies to you all as I have just found the invoices relating to this particular supplier and it does indeed state at the bottom the TERMS which are 30 days from document date it also states the following; All overdue invoices will be referred to Daniels Silverman and will be subject to a surcharge of 15% plus VAT to cover the collection costs incurred. This surcharge together with all other legal fees incurred will be the responsibility of the customer and will be legally enforceable. I was looking at the credit note that I had that I So it would appear that I don't have a leg to stand on???

Hello again all. Well here's the latest so far.... After contacting the supplier I had a very blunt message telling me to deal with DS directly and that I still needed to respond to an email that they sent last week!! When I wrote to my supplier I pointed out the bullying and scare tactics they are using and they really don't care judging by their reply which is really sad as we've put in-excess of £50,000 pounds worth of business their way in just over 12 months??? Please read below; Dear XXXXXX As is stated on our invoices - any overdue invoices will be placed in the hands of Daniel Silverman. Daniel Silverman are now dealing with this matter and all correspondence and monies should be sent direct to them. I understand from them that they are waiting for you to reply to an email they sent on 28th June in respect of payment arrangements. Regards I was advised by TS to use DS's complaints procedure but as yet they have not responded? I'm due to make the first payment on wed this week but I have had little or no resolve from anyone (only yourselves) I have been advised to call the national debt line so will call them tomorrow to see what I can do. Martin3030 I have emailed the T&C's as requested so please read the attached message can you also tell me where you can see any mention of DS on said invoices please?? I'm blowed if I can! As it stands at the moment I feel I will have to make the payments as agreed as to default will cause more problems unless the NDL can act as a mediator as suggested by TS?? I think as far as the restock fees of 10% is concerned with said supplier I will have to conceed to that Any ideas guys?

hello again all. Have contacted Local TS and they were very helpful and I'm now copying them in on all email sent between supplier, DS and myself so hopefully they will get the message that I mean business? Did you mean the T&C's from my supplier or DS? Posting them maybe a bit of a problem as they are in PDF and indentify who the supplier is! Is there anyway I can put them up without showing this? With regards to the invoices there was nothing on them to suggest that any re-stock fee would occur or even any debt recovery being employed? It just states a variety of days such as a ged debt days like 30, 60, 90, 120 and bank details of where to pay. That's it nothing else! Thanks once again to everyone for all your help so far it really is very much appreciated.

Had a email from DS today saying that the suppliers do not want to deal with me and that I am to deal with them directly Dear XXXXXXXX Further to your email to our client, please find again their Terms & Conditions & also the copy credit note you requested. You will note from the Terms & Conditions that collection charges imposed by ourselves are included & thus legally recoverable, as is interest according to The Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998. Our client wishes us to deal with this matter, please correspond with me from now on. The email goes on to say that they have agreed to our payment proposal but I have had to offer £1000 every fortnight to keep them at bay. Am I not able to deal with the original supplier now then? Do I have to deal with them direct?

I thought this after I had calmed down!! It was the very fact that in just 3 emails they were threatening away as you can see from my earlier posts. I did have to delete the relpy message several times as I really couldn't put to email what I was really thinking lol! I will keep you all posted as to how it goes with the original supplier and whomever I can get to listen to me with regards to DS's conduct thus far! Thank you all you have been a great help and inspiration to me

Hi Martin3030 the original debt was over £12,000 sent back over £5,000+ to reduce to original figure have paid £600.59 to date the balance after all this is shown on ealier pasted emails. Original supplier demanded £1000 per week to clear debt over 5 weeks I said I couldn't afford that so they suggested £500 per week I was able to pay this one week but was only able to pay £100.59 the following week due to low sales. I paid this last payment on thurs 21/06/12 on monday 25/06/12 was conatcted by DS with a FINAL demand for payment of over £8,000!?! I rent my home no mortgage and my car is on HP no tangible assests either as buisness premises are rented also.

Thank you Halibutt read and understood - Knowledge is power - watch this space mowah ha ha!!!

Thanks for the advice 42man to answer your questions I am a sole trader only not a ltd company we can not find a copy of original T&C's so I may have to concede to that one? I have contacted the original supplier to discuss directly with them the situation but I'm not hopeful as an agreement had been reached but unfortunately instead of paying £500 on the 2nd week I paid £100.59 which is all I could afford at the time and then the next thing I know Daniels Silverman are emailing me Monday lunchtime!! I therefore offered £50 per week and as you can see from the copied emails they were not best pleased with that and threatened me with personal bankruptcy - charming people:-x I have also contacted Trading Standards to see what they have to say so watch this space. I might be naive when it comes to Debt collection agency but once I got over the initial shock I donned my battle armour - I am now ready to rumble!! Thank you all for all your advice and kind words - its awful to think that these people (parasites) make a living from this sort of thing!!!

Ok thank you muchly

What does that mean? Sorry this is all new to me???

Thank you Z any advice is gratefully received at the moment. Before I contact the said supplier I will contact the TS agency to c where I stand first and see who else they can be reported to. I would understand their aggressive stance if I had repeatedly ignored their emails and this has been going on for a lengthy period but they only contacted me lunch time monday!! Thank you muchly

I will also answer your previous questions. In relation to business status I am a sole trader only not a limited or PLC company. The restock fee I can honestly say we have never seen the T&C's and I do not seem to have a copy on file either. The VAT is cause for concern (I'm VAT registered) and I didn't think they could charge me VAT on the debt owed as it has been added initially - my bookkeeper seems to think this may be VAT added onto their solicitors fees?? With regards to the payment I had fully intended to pay them the one thing I truly didn't want to agree to was a payment plan that I just couldn't stick too so I offered less to enable me to offer more when I have it but the market is so slow at the moment I don't want to guarantee payments I might not be able to make later which is what has lead me to this point now! I have no intention of ringing these people again (lesson learnt there) I will however follow everything up with a recorded delivery letter as read in a previous thread. I will also be taking the advice given in earlier message and contact the original supplier and let them know how the debt collection agency they have employed are acting in this way.

Well here goes everyone - i'm copying and pasting the emails that have been sent relating to this matter (Identifying details removed) Please note the first email from Daniels Silverman start at the bottom and work up to the latest email at the top... This last email at the top was sent at 13:26pm today (26.06.12) after my latest email to them. Dear XXXXX I repeat, we do not accept your offer of £50.00 per week. You can be made bankrupt for any debt over £750.00. Your debt is well in excess of this amount. Bankruptcy is the next step. Yours sincerely Account Manager Litigation Department email: web: tel: fax: Daniels Silverman Limited 210 Queens Dock Commercial Centre Norfolk Street Liverpool L1 0BG Registered Office : Castle Chambers, 43 Castle Street, Liverpool L2 9TL Company No. 3998129 VAT No. GB 636 6349 17  Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. ________________________________________ From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Sent: 26 June 2012 12:32 To: XXXXXXXXXXXX Subject: RE: Final Demand - Outstanding invoice due to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear XXXXXXXX Thank you for your correspondence. Unfortunately we are not in a position where we can offer more than £50.00 per week at this present moment in time. As stated before to XXXXXXXXXXX and to yourselves we are currently not in a position to pay more than this at present we will of course when sales improve pay more to clear the debt when we have extra funds but at the moment we are struggling with cash flow so this is all I can sensibly offer you for the time being. We do not want this debt to hang over us and we do want to clear this as soon as we can but I can not jeopardise the whole business just for one debt. If you can let me know where you would like me to send the £50.00 per week payment too that would be great. The size of this debt would not warrant or involve my personal bankruptcy. Yours Sincerely Sarah please consider the environment - only print this email if necessary PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL This electronic mail transmission is intended for the named recipients only. It may contain private and confidential information. If this has come to you in error you must take no action based upon it, nor must you copy it or show it to anyone; please telephone us immediately and return the original to us at the email address above. We cannot accept any liability for any loss or damage sustained as a result of software viruses. It is your responsibility to carry out such virus checking as is necessary before opening any attachment which may be included with this message. ________________________________________ Subject: RE: Final Demand - Outstanding invoice due to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:29:32 +0100 From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dear XXXXXXXXX The breakdown of the debt is as follows: XXXXX 5/3/2012 12883.84 XXXXX 12/3/2012 1.57- XXXXX 29/5/2012 5503.25- 7379.02 less payments 600.59 Bal o/s to client 6778.43 Collection charges 1016.76 VAT 203.35 Interest 267.84 Balance on letter 8266.38 You received these goods from our client in March. Our client has tried to assist you by taking a large proportion of the goods back & crediting you for them & they then agreed a payment plan with you in good faith. However you only made one payment & defaulted, then made another small payment. Your offer of £50.00 per week is unacceptable, that would take in excess of 3 years to pay. If you are unable to improve on this offer we are instructed to proceed to legal action. Due to the size of your debt, this could involve your personal bankruptcy. We await your urgent response. Yours sincerely Account Manager Litigation Department email: web: tel: fax: Daniels Silverman Limited 210 Queens Dock Commercial Centre Norfolk Street Liverpool L1 0BG Registered Office : Castle Chambers, 43 Castle Street, Liverpool L2 9TL Company No. 3998129 VAT No. GB 636 6349 17  Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. ________________________________________ From: Me Sent: 25 June 2012 17:17 To: Subject: RE: Final Demand - Outstanding invoice due to Importance: High FAO Sue Long Thank you for your email which I received today. I'm very disappointed to see that we have been passed over to you by our suppliers XXXXXXXXXXX. We have made payment to the debt owed although we have not been able to maintain the levels in which they required as our sales have been considerably low and have been for some time now. Unfortunately despite various sales campaigns and offers we have not managed to attract more custom. This has been explained to XXXXXXXX and even conveyed to the director when he visited us - not that that has seemed to make any difference now. I'm not happy at all that this has happened and the very fact that you are threatening us with court action already is appalling as I have only received notification today of XXXXXXX intentions as I had no response to my email to them last week on this matter. I will make arrangements with you to make payments at a rate of £50.00 per week as at the moment we have no more that we can dedicate to this debt this is not negotiable as we are not able to pay anything more. After speaking to XXXXXXXXX today I did request that you call me on my mobile but I feel that under the circumstances and to protect myself I want everything documented in writing so please do NOT ring my mobile tomorrow, you may email me or put in writing anything you want to convey instead. Furthermore I would like a complete breakdown of the debt owed as there is cause for dispute as it appears that I have an outstanding credit on this account - I will verify this with my bookkeeepers before I comment on the further. Yours sincerely Sarah ________________________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:56:18 +0100 From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Subject: Final Demand - Outstanding invoice due to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX FINAL DEMAND Dear Sir/Madam, Re:- Our Client XXXXXXXXXXXX Account Name:- XXXXXXXXXXXX Our File Ref:- Outstanding Balance £8,266.38 We have been instructed by our above named client to recover the above outstanding debt. We now demand immediate repayment of £8,266.38. Unless full payment is sent directly to us within 7 days we will take final recovery action through the Courts, which may lead to:- - You having to pay all solicitors fees and court costs - Judgment being awarded against you in Court - Debt details being registered affecting your ability to obtain credit in future - Bailiffs calling at your premises Please telephone our office immediately on xxxxxxxxxxxx to discuss further. YOU NOW HAVE SEVEN DAYS TO REPAY IN FULL. ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU THROUGH THE COURTS IF YOU FAIL TO COMPLY WITH THIS DEMAND. PAY ONLINE AT xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx OR FOLLOW THE PAYMENT INSTRUCTIONS BELOW. Yours Faithfully, Sue Long Daniels Silverman Limited - 210 Queens Dock Commercial Centre, Norfolk Street, Liverpool, L1 0BG Tel: - Fax: - Web: ________________________________________ P A Y M E N T P R O C E D U R E Visit us online at xxxxxxxxxxxxx to make payment by card, send payment with this slip by return to Daniels Silverman Limited at the address above or call us on to make arrangements to pay over the phone. All cheques must be made payable to DANIELS SILVERMAN LIMITED. From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Client Name: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Payment enclosed in respect of your ref XXXXXXXXXX Balance outstanding £8,266.38  Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. ________________________________________

I'm new to this forum so here is a very brief history; I am a business owner I had goods from a supplier back in March 2012 I couldn't afford to pay for all the stock so I sent a lot of it back to reduce the debt owed. I was charged a 10% restock fee which wasn't mentioned until I received the credit note and it was clearly displayed then? When I queried this I was told this was in their T&C's (it was never mentioned until this point). I bashed out an agreement with said supplier. I was able to make one payment but could not afford to pay the full amount the 2nd week however I did still pay some and each time I sent a payment I also sent an email to accompany this. yesterday without warning I received an email from Daniels Silverman demanding not only the final debt but they have now added 15% + VAT + interest and has pushed the final debt to phenomenal levels!! On top of this and in their very first message they have threatened bailiffs and personal bankruptcy. In less than 24 hours they have made me feel very ill and extremely worried can they be so aggressive right from the start? I have offered a payment plan and they have instantly rejected it and then told me they would file for personal bankruptcy - the size of their text has increased as though I'm some sort of idiot!! My question is to anyone in the know how do I stand with these people? Do I stand my ground with them or not? In just over 24 hours they have threatened me with everything possible and this is only over 3 emails. What do I do? I tried to phone but the man on the phone was incrediably rude and hung up on me:jaw: Any help or advice greatly appreciated