bailiffs knocking, whats my rights?

[lizard821000]

hi guys,

 

great site for info this! use it a lot. im hoping you guys can help me out with a problem.

 

dont know toooo much about all this, been looking on some sites and have delt with debt collectors in the past, but not tryed the same tactics on bailifts.

 

im in arrears of an old council tax bill at a very old address, i had a payment schemem set in place with the councils bailiff but due to lack of work and a hand injury recently have missed payments.

 

i recieved a letter this morning regarding my outstanding council tax bill which has now been passed onto a company called Ross and Roberts ltd. i missed my last few payments due to lack of work as a self employed builder, they are now demanding the payment in full plus charges! this can not happen as i dont have it, i contacted the council (who the debt was with before)and told them i was not whilling to deal with a 3rd party regarding my financess.

they told me it was now out of their hands and to contact the said bailiff, i will not be contacting them how ever as i want to pay my debt with the council direct, i still have the payment details in place to pay them via on-line or automatic phone payments. im just worried about the said bailiff company that may keep knocking and adding further charges to my already over streching debt plus maybe seizing my work van!!!???....

the council informed me if i wasnt willing to communicate with this other company, that my debt will eventually be handed back to them anyways, as they have no rights to send me to court for it etc.... and I AM WILLING to pay the debt, just not via a 3rd party with silly add-on charges.

 

whats the best thing for me to do now? just wait till it gets handed back to the council and ignore the 3rd party bailiff? can i call the police and tell them im being harrased by these people if they continue to call at my door?

 

thanks for your time.

 

shaun

[padja]

right pay using online facility (if it goes back to council it helps you with showing you can keep to a repayment plan), as to the bailiff, dont call the police they will probably side with bailiff. Just ignore them keep windows shut and curtains closed, keep garden gate locked and keep any items under cover (pound shop sells tarpaulins). They cant get a locksmith,cant get you arrested, havent got a van in area to collect goods. you dont have to speak to bailiff, you dont have to open door. You need to ask council how much is outstanding on the arrears

[rebel11]

Hi lizard

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Firstly I would park your van as far away from your house as possible, make sure the house is secure, all windows and doors are locked.

You must continue paying the council as you've already suggested.

 

Here's some info:- Bailiffs - Citizens Advice

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers.

[lizard821000]

thanks for the tips guys,

 

im mainly conserned about them seizing my work van as a levy as its left on the road, if im home when they call i certainly wont be letting them in...

 

ill continue to pay the council direct like i have been too!

 

can i just ignore them (3rd party bailiff) like you would a debt collector?

on the letter i recieved this morning it states unless i pay the full amount that on the next visit there will be an additional £110 add on charges, split between levy fees,walking possession fees and van removal fees.

next to the levy fee it says " with arrangment" im guessing next time they come theyll be looking for me to sign something to wave this levy arrangement and walking possession in their favour!?

 

im unsure what to do next?? im happy to pay the debt but want to pay the council, not a 3rd party bailiff, no way will i hand over my account details to them!

 

should i have some letters ready for when they come calling? like the walking poss letter and levy letters i see in template form on these sorts of sites? or is it best just to ignore them all together and deny i know what they are talking about...

 

thanks so much for any replies, me and the mrs just had our first child 6 weeks ago and the thoughts that these guys are going to be lurking about like dogs makes her very uneasy.

 

going to move my van now!!!

[unclebulgaria67]

How old is this council tax bill and have you had a statement showing all the payments, plus what the amount outstanding is.

[wonkeydonkey]

Is the van insured for business, is it sign witten and are you the only driver? If yes then the van is classed as a 'tool of the trade' and is exempt from being levied.

 

WD

[ploddertom]

There is no law that says you have to speak to or deal with a Bailiff. Yoou must not allow him entry to your home and if you have anything lying loose outside then move it NOW. Providing you deny him entry or prevent him levying on any goods outside then the only fees you can be charged will be capped at £42-50. Bailiffs will and can levy on any old vehicle in the street and when you claim it is not yours will try to make you provide proof you do not own it. Please note that any action and any charges the Bailiff may make is the responsibility of the Council. The questions wonkeydonkey has raised above is very relevant.

 

PT

[lizard821000]

hi guys thanks for your replies!

 

the van isnt sign writen no but is insured through a van insurance company site rather than car etc.... and documented in the terms as for work purpose only, not domestic. ill have to check my agreement to be sure but think that the case!

 

the bill is a good 6 years old at least, but iv only been paying it off for the last year, iv missed payments since febuary this year due to lack of work as a self employed builder and then haveing an accident which needed operating on, leaving me unable to work.

 

i posted this on another forum to get the most responces possible and have actually had a reply from someone who works for the council who has said once a debt is passed on to this sort of 3rd party that all automatic card payments via their payment line are viod!? is this true?? as id like to continue to pay it off this way in the hope they see im willing to pay as and when i can, if they are not willing to take the debt back from the 3rd party bailiffs they might agreee to another payment set up, if i plead my case!?

 

or am i clutching straws??

 

thanks again for all the info, its making me feel a little more in control of this.

[BanditQueen]

Whatever you do; do not let them in and make sure you close all windows and lock them and doors if you leave the house. Tell them you cannot pay them in writing and tell them to refer it back to the council. Get a specialist involved in this as soon as possible as you may need to work something out with the council to pay it off a bit as a time with the help of the CAB. If it is six years old and they have not contacted you for six years; it has to be written off. Are you entitled to any state benefits or help towards the council tax? Are you sick or disabled? Are you actually responsible for the council tax? All these are factors in if you have to pay or not and at what rate you have to repay it, but do not let the bailiffs in whatever you do; force the council to recall it.

[zydeco]

...someone who works for the council who has said once a debt is passed on to this sort of 3rd party that all automatic card payments via their payment line are void!

I wouldn't mind betting that "council" employee works for capita.

 

afaik the council cannot refuse payments so carry on paying them online .

[brassnecked]

Carry on paying them online and tell the council this bear in mind you must allow the £42.50 in legitimate visit fees as advised by ploddertom,

What council is this? as was mentioned by zydeco, some councils have outsourced their back office functions to a company called Capita, who surprise surprise also own a couple of bailiff companies, Ross & Roberts, and Wquita.

[wonkeydonkey]

hi guys thanks for your replies!

 

the van isnt sign writen no but is insured through a van insurance company site rather than car etc.... and documented in the terms as for work purpose only, not domestic. ill have to check my agreement to be sure but think that the case! If it is insured for work and not social domestic and pleasure with you as the sole driver then it is Exempt from levy or seizure, keep a copy of the insurance handy and if they call again give it to them.

 

the bill is a good 6 years old at least, but iv only been paying it off for the last year, iv missed payments since febuary this year due to lack of work as a self employed builder and then haveing an accident which needed operating on, leaving me unable to work.

 

i posted this on another forum to get the most responces possible and have actually had a reply from someone who works for the council who has said once a debt is passed on to this sort of 3rd party that all automatic card payments via their payment line are viod!? is this true?? as id like to continue to pay it off this way in the hope they see im willing to pay as and when i can, if they are not willing to take the debt back from the 3rd party bailiffs they might agreee to another payment set up, if i plead my case!?

 

or am i clutching straws??

 

thanks again for all the info, its making me feel a little more in control of this.

 

As has been said ....you can pay many ways without actually paying the bailiff and the Council cannot refuse to take your payments. I would try the online payment system first if that is blocked Cash at a council office is the one that seems to cause chaos and confusion with them, they will try to tell you they cannot accept it but as soon as you ask them to sign indemnity to say they are refusing your Council Tax you get a different story.

 

Your local councillor is also another route, they have the ear of those in charge and can put your proposal forward to the right authority. What is cruscial to this is if you are going for a repayment plan that is affordable and sustainable to you is that you will need to show a figure to that repayment and then stick to it religiously, that this debt is 6years old makes it a non priority debt and therefore the repayments proposed do not need to be set at the ridiculous premium rates the bailiffs would be seeking.

 

The sooner you start payments the better, don't attempt to delay while you are trying to negotiate with the Council it will do you no favours.

 

WD

[brassnecked]

Yes agree with WD pay something now whatever you can afford, be it £5 or £10 but tell them you can afford £xx per week/month, but preferably weekly, to establish a payment record as quickly as possible, and pay it in every Friday, or whatever without fail. If you pay on monday, it would show on your account by Thursday, removing the excuse to send Ross 'n robbers on friday for the missed payment. It can take a little time to get rid of bailiffs but with advice from Caggers it can be done.

[lizard821000]

awsome guys!! thanks so much .

 

i was paying £60 a month! on this debt and have been for a good 8 months or more, its now down to £900 but i missed about 4 months worth of payments down to un-for-seen circumstances.... tbh i should have called and explained, but **** happens and i didnt.

 

so its now been passed on to these guys! ill pay something right away via on-line , got all the account details and refferance codes etc so can carry on regardless.

its portsmouth city council for whoever asked. so they cant take my van! what about stuff in my rear garden? i have an ally way from the road to back garden and have 2-3 old honda CB200s lying about..... they cant jump over and call levy on any of these right!? that would be trespassing right?

[unclebulgaria67]

They can go into your garden, as long as force is not used and they do not cause damage. So they can jump over the fence or gate if they wanted to. Potentially the bikes could be levied on.

[lizard821000]

fk! that dont sound good! well the gate is locked so to get the bike out theyed have to lift it over the wall! which is prob possible as it aint heavy! but surely thats tresspass!? or would it be if i give them the right not to tresspass on my property first?

 

this works in funny ways all this.....

[lizard821000]

would the levy also be void if what they took wasnt worth the amount of the debt?

 

whats this thing about deniying them the right to contact me or knock my door or tresspass on my land iv been reading on other sites? does this hold any truth? just need some ammo to use if i come face to face which could help me stop them from levying stuff or walking entre..

[ploddertom]

Please be aware of one thing that you may not know. PCC outsource their admin services to a company called Capita. Therefore when you ring the Council you are invariably talking to someone from a private company, it is not in their interests to be helpful to you. Capita also own 2 Bailiff companies one of which just so happens to be good R&R - do I need to go on.

[lizard821000]

ah right!

 

that explains why when i chatted to them the other day that they were less than helpful! sly bastards.

[lizard821000]

i suppose the next question then would be were does that leave me as to trying to contact my councuil directly, so im not talking to these clowns!? and maybe i can get it sorted.

 

thanks plod! been a great help already as have you all.

[ploddertom]

You can carry on as you are by totally ignoring them, the chances of them actually removing any goods is small although they could. If they levy on goods and seek to remove them for sale at auction then there are a few things that have to be considered - will the value of the goods realise enough to:

a - pay all the Bailiffs fees

b - pay the costs of removal & storage

c - pay the costs of the auction

d - pay the Auctioneers costs

e - pay something off the debt owing

Auctions are renowned for low value sales and 10% of the value is not far off the mark. Therefore if you owed £250 then they really need goods to the value of £2.5k.

 

You can contact your local Councillor(s) and ask them to interevne as they have access to those who can halt this. If they refuse or are reluctant then go straight to the Leader of the Council and his opposite number.

[BanditQueen]

Yes, pay the council direct: various ways are able to do this: on-line, our council you can register and pay, take it is same for yours, direct debit, but if you are paying less than the total payments, then this may not be wise; standing order, and you can set the amount up on the banking, the smart card, if you have one, with cash or cheque, or if you have their receiving bank and sort code, using your own reference or account number through on line banking, and most banks on the bill payment list have the councils already listed. You just have to remember to go to your account on line every month and set the payment date and amount. But whatever you do, do not pay the bailiff or let them in or find their way in. Again tell them to send your account back to the council or the cancel to recall it. There is also a means and expenditure form that you can fill in showing your income and monthly expenditure and you can get them to agree a reasonable repayment plan. It may be true that they cannot refuse what you offer, but do not take it for granted, councils try it on. I have paid council tax for eleven years and they still do not believe me that I have paid it. I have had bailiffs out three times for lost council tax and have just won a reverse victory over them and now they owe me money. There are a couple of organisations who can help: the CLA; National Debt Line, the council's own benefit welfare people have someone that can help sort it out, and most welfare rights groups can help. Take all your paperwork and never thrown anything to do with the council out: no matter how old it is. You never know what these clowns come up with. Goof luck.

[wonkeydonkey]

would the levy also be void if what they took wasnt worth the amount of the debt?

 

whats this thing about deniying them the right to contact me or knock my door or tresspass on my land iv been reading on other sites? does this hold any truth? just need some ammo to use if i come face to face which could help me stop them from levying stuff or walking entre..

 

Unfortunately the letter you refer does not stop bailiffs it is aimed at the the lowest ranks.....Debt Collecting Agents,

 

Follow what advice you have been given, ignore the bailiff, put the bike under heavy tarpaulin or move it into a garage/shed under lock and key, start paying the Council and get in touch with your councillor.

 

WD

[lizard821000]

grand, ill do just that!

 

thank you all for your time and knoledge. ill keep you posted to what happens.

 

shaun

[JOHNINYORK]

The following sites maybe of interest regarding the power of a bailiff etc.My apologies to our learned members who will be well versed in this topic,but I thought that these sites would help new members.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/moneytaxandbenefits/managingdebt/debtsandarrears/dg_1003428

 

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Regards,John.