PCN on bank holiday outside hospital. Not sure if valid.

[Forcemaster]

On 04/06/2012at 10:24 I was issued a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN),

 

At the time in question I had gone for change to pay, and it being a bankholiday took a few minutes to get to the hospital shop to get change; I wasunable to pay by phone having lost my mobile the previous weekend. Whilst I acceptthe ‘gone for change excuse’ is not a significant defence in itself andprobably one heard repeatedly, I was less than five minutes beforereturning to the car and would ask if any clemency could be provided on thisbasis?

 

An additional concern I have isthat the Parking Control Zone (PCZ) is not valid due to incomplete signage. Ibelieve to be a PCZ all roads mustbe provided with parking places or be marked with road markings to 1017, 1018.11019 or 1020.1 (single yellow lines, double yellow lines, single kerb markingsor double kerb markings) and that there should be entry plates at every point to the zone. A quick walkaround the zone shows that the signage is incomplete at more than one point,meaning that the enforceable stage of the PCZ is questionable.

 

Thirdly, I had a question aboutthe markings of the bay in question. The Traffic Signs Regulations and GeneralDirections (TSRGD) lay out the precise method of marking bays on the road and Iam not sure which of this Regulations this bay is supposed to be compliant withas it appears to be in line with 1028 and 1032 and appears the bay meetsneither of these standards entirely. The ends of the bay are clearly marked asif for individual bays to standard 1032, but the sides or the bay are marked asstandard 1028.

 

Additionally, whenmeasured, the markings do not seem to comply with the measurements proscribedwithin the TSRGD, however as I am not able to determine the actual regulationthe bays are supposed to be compliant with I may be in error. I have included asketch below with the measurements of the TSRGD and the measurements I took ofthe bay, and have highlighted which lines may not be to code.

[green_and_mean]

There is no such thing as a PCZ I suspect you mean a CPZ? CPZs unless varied to 'pay and display zone' have nothing to do with the bays so even if they are all missing the PCN would still be valid. Since the Herron high court case substantial compliance has been used in parking cases where there are technical errors with signage, providing the bays are substatially compliant and did not confuse you they are unlikely to be grounds for cancellation.

[Forcemaster]

Having sat last night and read some of the regs, yes, your quite right i do mean a CPZ (was just naming the zone from what the sign said which is 'Controlled Zone'). However on having read the regs in more detail and from what i 'think' i'm understanding of the regs; for the provision of parking controls for cars on roads, there are effectively two types of bay marking which can be identified by the end markings and the type of line that runs along the road parallel to the kerb. These two types are to diagrams 1028 and diagram 1032 in the Regulations. The primary difference between the two bays are:

 

1. A 1028 series bay can only be used when there is a sign on a pole telling you what restriction applies, otherwise the bay itself is unlawful (the location of the pole relates to whether the restriction is in a Controlled Parking Zone or not).

 

2. A 1032 bay can be used with or without a sign on a pole, when no sign is present the bay is uncontrolled, that is - free parking.

 

The bay i was parked in had (as the photos show) the end markings of 1032 and side markings of 1028.4. As far as i can see there is no provision for mixing the two regs, which would could surely make this bay non-valid???

 

Also with regards to the lines, in all cases the fixed measurements are variable in accordance with Regulation 12, table 2 but the variable measurements cannot be exceeded beyond either dimension, which in this bay it was. In the case of diagram 1032 bay markings, the variations differ slightly, but again, there is a limit to the variations allowed.

 

So unless i am totally reading this wrong, all roads for the CPZ must be marked and all entry points signed, when they are not, there is no CPZ meeting the requirements of the legislation, and with a defective CPZ the controls within it fall back to the wording of the Traffic Regulation Order and each road marking will stand on its own, which again leads me back to the fact that the bay is not set out to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002.

 

Am i just seriously confusing myself here (probably)?

[assisted blonde]

I dont think there is a defence to this as you say going to get change is really not a defence, and to be fair you knew you would need cghange to park, as you couldnt pay by mobile so you should have had some with you.

I think this is a case of trying to split hairs, the bay was there and in use and you knew you had to get a ticket, if you thought the bay was illeagal then you wouldnt have gone to get change would you?

[Forcemaster]

I dont think there is a defence to this as you say going to get change is really not a defence, and to be fair you knew you would need cghange to park, as you couldnt pay by mobile so you should have had some with you.

I think this is a case of trying to split hairs, the bay was there and in use and you knew you had to get a ticket, if you thought the bay was illeagal then you wouldnt have gone to get change would you?

 

I see where you are coming from, but i only examined the bay in more detail after i had gotten the ticekt. Who looks at the size and shapes of the lines in that much detail..? They see white lines in the shape of a parking space on the ground and park...

 

What i'm trying to say/ask is that a parking ticket can not be enforced if the parking space in question is incorrectly marked, which is what this one is...

Edited June 8, 2012 by Forcemaster
spelling

[green_and_mean]

I see where you are coming from, but i only examined the bay in more detail after i had gotten the ticekt. Who looks at the size and shapes of the lines in that much detail..? They see white lines in the shape of a parking space on the ground and park...

 

What i'm trying to say/ask is that a parking ticket can not be enforced if the parking space in question is incorrectly marked, which is what this one is...

 

Yes as its a civil matter not a criminal offence there is a lesser burden on the Council to comply, unless the signage 'error' was the reason for your PCN I would think you are onto a loser. You need to ask yourself would having the wrong size gap between the white dashes lead a driver to think parking was 'free' if you think yes then appeal, if you think no then cut your loses.

[Forcemaster]

Can't blame a guy for trying i suppose...