N1 Claim Form received for old Welcome Finance debt

[Fars]

Hopefully someone can give me a little advice here please.

 

Basically I became ill early 2006 and still am now, financially there was no opportunity to repay debts then and there still isn't now as i've been out of employment for the duration. At the time I was advised by the local CAB to offer minimum payments of £1, which I did for a few months at a time before the DCA/creditor would come back to me to renegotiate.

 

Today a N1 from Northampton CCBC came through the door dated the 14th of May.

 

The debt it relates to is from 12/08/2005 according to my experian credit report. Experian also shows this debt became default as of 18/11/2006.

 

I have vague memories of my last contact regarding this debt from July 2007 when I paid a final £1 to a company called dlc (hillesden securities ltd).

 

Since then i've heard nothing at all concerning this debt, though at the time my mother acting on my behalf with the CAB wrote to the DCA asking to continue the £1 agreement, no contact was ever received back however.

 

So now I don't really know what to do. I know this is my debt and I understand I am responsible for my situation. I only really see this going three ways right now.

 

1) Call them (IND) and attempt to come to a payment agreement without it going through the CCJ process, literally offering the minimum £1

 

2) return the N1 with £1 payment agreement and hope the court rules in my favour

 

3) CCA. Is it too late to talk to the company who has put this CCJ through, IND of peterborough, for a CCA?

 

I believe the debt isn't able to be statute barred until July 2013, as that is 6 years from my last contact with them.

 

 

Any advice on how to proceed is welcome.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Fars and welcome to CAG

 

I am going to move your thread to the Legal Forum were you will get advice on dealing with this claim and the process to follow.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi Fars

 

Ok can you type out the P.o.C ( Particulars) verbatim less any identifiable data and just a ball park figure they are claiming. The Claimants in question.

 

This is the process you have 33 days in total (5 deemed served ) so 28 14days to acknowledge service and if you intend to defend another 14 to submit a defence.

 

Have you received any paperwork regarding this debt ie Default Notice / Notice of Assignment / Arrears Notices?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Fars]

Hi Andy, thank you very much for the move and reply.

 

P.o.C

"The Claimant claims for sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s) related only to money regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant. The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of Agreement(s). The Claimant complied with Section III and IV and Annex B of the PD Pre-Action Conduct. And the Claimant Claims: Personal Loan Account number XXXXXXXX balance of 2.700 as of 2/12/11. Interest under the s69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 2/12/11 to 10/5/12 of 94 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.59 AND Costs"

 

Claimant

Welcome Financial Services LTD

 

The only paperwork I've received in years was a letter on the 24th April 2012 from IND, comprising two pages, the first detailing my debt and reminding me how overdue the debt is, the second boldly titled 'last letter before legal proceedings' and asking me to pay the full amount by 08/05/2012 or legal proceedings will commence.

 

Thanks for clarifying the time line I have to work with. I can conveniently acknowledge via the moneyclaim website it seems. I'm still unsure if this is my only course of action, is it now too late to talk to welcome/ind to reach a payment agreement and avoid the county court process?

 

Thanks again for taking a look at this.

[AndyOrch]

Thank you Fars for the details.

 

The decision on whether to defend or admit is a choice only you can make.How important would avoiding a CCJ be to you? The only way to buy time/agreement now once proceedings have been issued is to defend the matter, admittance and part admittance will guarantee a CCJ, unless you have the cash to pay in full on receipt of the judgment.

 

You may then ask how can I defend it with no defence well the process of defending opens avenues and allows opportunities to mediate, defending/pursuing a claim costs on both parties, the amount in question here will be SCT (Small Claims Track) and therefore the costs on the defendant are limited.

 

If it is your intention to defend then you will need to question their P.o.C and request disclosure of their documents they intend to rely on.This is done by way of a CPR 31.14 request ( documents referred to in their pleadings) and a separate section 77 request for the agreement.

 

If a CCJ is of no consequence then you are free to admit and make a payment offer using the response forms or online MCOL.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Fars]

Thanks for the advice Andy.

 

After spending the last couple of days reading up as much as I can on the process (and still feeling mostly clueless and a little lost) i'd like to defend.

 

One thing I remain unsure on however, if I defend and the defence fails I presume i'd then have the opportunity to reach a payment agreement on the judgement?

 

Please may I have some help with the defence, questioning the P.o.C, sending a CPR 31.14 and separate section 77?

[AndyOrch]

Hi Fars

 

Many things can happen during the litigation process , twists turns and unforeseeable events, the defending process does allow and give opportunity.Should your defence fail and the claimants attain a CCJ

it will either be " forthwith " immediate payment or a payment plan, set by the Court.If its not an affordable payment you can make a redetermination to reset the figure.If its a forthwith judgment you can make application to vary the figure to monthly.

 

Defences are not templated and so you must consider very carefully before choosing this option if you can defend and refute any points within the claimants P.o.C or with the process that they have issued proceedings.

 

The CPR 31 is readily available on the site to download and edit to your requirements as is the Section 77.

 

Litigating in person is not for the faint hearted you should read cases similar to yours and ones in the success forum before pursuing this course of action.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Fars]

Thanks again Andy,

 

Litigating in person i'd be comfortable with, so long as my understanding of all the nuance relative to the case was complete.

 

However on balance, between the hassle of travel, the stress involved and how little actually receiving a CCJ means to me and my family right now, I think it's time to just accept the CCJ and file a manageable repayment plan via moneyclaim. My time is too precious to mess around with defending.

 

Thanks for all the help and advice, feel free to close this thread mate.

 

Kind Regards,

Ryan

[AndyOrch]

No problem Ryan, you could approach the Claimant direct to try to resolve it and request a Tomlin Order or Consent that way you will avoid the CCJ.

 

Andy

[Fars]

Thanks again Andy.

 

I've no contact details for the Claimant (Welcome) as the Claim Form has no number for them. I've tried talking to the people who sent me the notification letter (IND) and they advise that I just need to return the Claim Form with my repayment proposal filled in for the court to deal with. They said they can't accept any proposals directly (Tomlin/Consent).

 

Am I hitting a brick wall because I'm talking to the DCA who took on the debt instead of Welcome directly? Or is the DCA just fobbing me off/not wanting to deal with a Tomlin Order etc?

 

Regards,

Ryan

[havinastella]

I would be inclined to at least ask for the agreement and default notices.

 

There may be charges and PPI on this loan and just giving in for a few letters to start with would be suicidial.

 

There are MANY IND threads at the moment, look over them before you shoot yourself in the foot.

 

Jogs

[AndyOrch]

Is there not a Solicitor on the Summons contact details?

[Fars]

Cheers for the advice Jogs,

 

I'll try to find the IND threads to get a better grip on what is going on. The loan did have a PPI agreement (a worthless one that didn't cover my illness) and I am sure there are charges levied in the total they are asking for.

 

Part of my problem is i'm so clueless as to the process. If I ask for a copy of the agreement what happens then? Do I acknowledge on MCOL to get 28 days and then dispute part of the claim using the N9B Defence and Counterclaim form?

 

If I want to pursue the defence and counterclaim route I imagine it unwise to contact the Claimant to request a Tomlin Order?

[Fars]

Ah, thanks Andy.

 

There are telephone details for the Claimant Solicitor.

 

After the above advice regarding requesting the agreement i'm unsure what I should do now

[robcag]

Hi Fars

 

 

There are telephone details for the Claimant Solicitor.

 

 

Be very careful what you say to the enemy on the phone, and also don't commit to anything they might suggest as in all likelihood they will try and 'persuade' you in some way, if you get my drift.

 

I did this to my cost with the very first claim against me before I found CAG.

 

Good luck

Rob

[AndyOrch]

Claim was issued 14th May so 5 days served 18th May + 14 days to Acknowledge 31st May (and decide) sleep on it Fars plenty time to decide which is the best course of action.Have you sent a CPR 31.14 and section 77 request yet? It doesn't effect your plea send them anyway then you will be in a position to decide subject to their response.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

Send recorded delivery and sign it in a unique way.

[havinastella]

Thanks Andy

 

Some other threads to look at

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?334089-Help..letter-from-IND...now-N1-claim-form-received-help&highlight=IND

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?320879-Lloyds-Overdraft-IND-collections-and-N1CPC-County-Court-Form&highlight=IND

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?332636-ING-summons&highlight=IND

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?325003-IND-debt-collector-**-Court-Papers-Issued-**&highlight=IND

 

Well worth knowing who you are up against.

 

Easy reading and make it as hard as possible for them to obtain judgement.

 

I would also be sending Welcome a sar request to find out what charges have been added

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?417-A-Subject-Access-Request-for

 

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Jogs

Edited May 21, 2012 by havinastella

[Fars]

Thanks for the template Andy, I had a quick look for the cpr 31.14 and section 77 request templates but couldn't find anything relevant.

 

With the cpr 31.14 I had a couple of questions:

 

I'm assuming case number is my claim number from northampton?

 

I don't fully understand my P.o.C but I think it only mentions the agreement. Number 1 mentioned here

 

"1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim."

 

P.o.C quoted for easy reference

 

"The Claimant claims for sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s) related only to money regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant. The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of Agreement(s). The Claimant complied with Section III and IV and Annex B of the PD Pre-Action Conduct. And the Claimant Claims: Personal Loan Account number XXXXXXXX balance of 2.700 as of 2/12/11. interest under the s69 of the county court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 2/12/11 to 10/5/12 of 94 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.59 AND Costs"

 

Is there a template for the section 77 request to be found on the site?

 

And lastly, these requests go to the claimants solicitors, and not the claimant?

[havinastella]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.

 

Jogs

[AndyOrch]

Thanks for the template Andy, I had a quick look for the cpr 31.14 and section 77 request templates but couldn't find anything relevant.

 

With the cpr 31.14 I had a couple of questions:

 

I'm assuming case number is my claim number from northampton? Correct

 

I don't fully understand my P.o.C but I think it only mentions the agreement. Number 1 mentioned here

 

"1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]* Pre Action Protocol /LBA

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim."

 

P.o.C quoted for easy reference

 

"The Claimant claims for sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s) related only to money regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant. The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of Agreement(s). The Claimant complied with Section III and IV and Annex B of the PD Pre-Action Conduct. And the Claimant Claims: Personal Loan Account number XXXXXXXX balance of 2.700 as of 2/12/11. interest under the s69 of the county court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 2/12/11 to 10/5/12 of 94 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.59 AND Costs"

 

Is there a template for the section 77 request to be found on the site? Letter N in the templates section

 

And lastly, these requests go to the claimants solicitors, and not the claimant?

Correct

 

You will notice no reference to the Default Notice yet they state its terminated so we will accept that as good as a DN so request that also

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Fars]

Excellent, thanks very much Jogs.

[Fars]

And thanks Andy, will amend as appropriate.

[AndyOrch]

Section 77 request Letter N http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?20758

[Fars]

Ok will head to the library tomorrow to get these printed and sent.

 

Couple of quick questions. The CPR 31.14 mentions covering their [solicitors] costs for the information request, do I need to stick a postal order in the same as with the Section 77 request?

 

And secondly does the Section 77 go off to the Solicitors the same as the CPR 31.14?