Claim form received

[foxyflugel]

Hi everyone

 

I am posting this on behalf of my sister. She has received a NCC claim form from LTSB/Morgans - dated 30th March- but she didn't receive it until about 2 weeks later!!

 

Anyway, I advised her to send a CPR 31.14 - which she did.

 

She has acknowledged it on MCOL. The history is that her and hubby split and she can barely afford to keep the house on and is left with little or no disposable income each month. Thay have set every single DCA on her that you can think of and she was making herself ill with worry.

 

I told her to negotiate with them - she offered them a small payment each month of what she thought she could afford (the family does help her out also) - and they continuously refused to accept it- so she stopped paying it altogether as she was struggling to afford it.

 

She has received her reply to the CPR request and they have sent her:-

 

Copy statements.

An Application form (dated 1998) + a seperate sheet with the allleged T & Cs (illegible)

A form that says 'Key Financial Info' - this is stamped with the date of March 2006 on it - but she can't remember ever signing anything other than the App form back in 1998. On this form a lot of the details are barely legible (including her surname!!) . Where her signature is it says

 

"This is a credit agreement regulated by the CCA 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms".

 

 

Then underneath her signature it says (and there is also another space for a signature).

 

"I understand that I am purchasing the product selected above on credit provided by you and that the terms relating to the credit for the product(s) can be found in this agreement"

 

There is no signature here.

 

They have failed to send the requested DN or TN!!

 

I have looked but can't find a link to the letter re:- illegible docs provided.

 

What does this 'Key Financial Info' doc mean? as my sis says she hasn't signed it!!

 

They have agreed to give her an extension so I have faxed this to NNC today for her.

 

Any help would be great guys as I already have my own to deal with but I can't leave her to sort it as she will just make herself ill again and they will continue to make her life a misery.

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Anyone??

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[mystery1]

legal issues-compilation.pdf

 

Have a read and pick out the bits that you need.

 

M1

[foxyflugel]

Thanks M1 - is there a template letter for the illegible agreement T&Cs sent and for missing docs from the CPR 31.14 request?

 

Foxy

[mystery1]

Both 31.14 and illegible documents are dealt with in the pdf in post 3. legal issues-compilation.pdf

 

This is as close as you're going to get, i think.

 

M1

[foxyflugel]

Thanks M1.

 

Foxy

[AndyOrch]

" What does this 'Key Financial Info' doc mean? as my sis says she hasn't signed it!! "

 

That is part of the prescribes terms all credit agreements from that date must have the perscribed terms within the 4 corners and on the same page as the signatory area.

With an agreement from that age the T&Cs can not be separate (even if you state you agree to them) hence the loop hole that as now been rectified.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[foxyflugel]

Thanks for your reply Andyorch

 

Does the key financial doc info have to be the same as in 1998 when she signed the application form? What about the t&cs doc and some of the Application form being illegible?

 

She also has not signed under the second statement on the KFI doc - does this make a difference?

 

"I understand that I am purchasing the product selected above on credit provided by you and that the terms relating to the credit for the product(s) can be found in this agreement"

Do you think there is anywhere to go with this?

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[AndyOrch]

Difficult to say Foxy without actually seeing this agreement is there any chance you can get hold of it and scan it in?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[foxyflugel]

Yes no problem Andy. Will get onto that now - bear with me

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Right - here goes - I hope they're ok as I have a new laptop and have hopefully figured it out!!

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

 

 

 

 

[foxyflugel]

I have also noticed that on the 'illegible T&Cs' doc - you can just about read that the minimum payment is £5 or 3% of the balance (whichever is greater) and on the KFI doc it is £5 or 2% - shouldn't these be the same?

 

Also the card number on the a/c statements(until April 06) they have sent and the one on the application form when it was accepted are exactly the same - but then the card number changed!!. On the 'KFI' doc there is no a/c number or card number stated either - and where the surname is 'this is very illegible - someone has written her correct surname at the side of it - very strange.

 

Foxy

Edited May 3, 2012 by foxyflugel

[mystery1]

You can't argue it's not easily legible then comment on what it says.

 

These 2 arguments are not compatible.

 

M1

[foxyflugel]

M1 - as you can now see from the docs I have posted - as I said in my previous post - you can just about make out this very small part of the T&Cs doc - but it is very much blurred at the top and bottom - particularly on the left hand side and top right. Also for the KFI doc on the bottom left.

 

Foxy

[mystery1]

The 1st and 3rd docs looks very poor but that's your call as you have the copy and are in the best place to see if it's easily legible (not requiring a close inspection !!)

 

M1

[foxyflugel]

I know M1 - it's very hard to tell from posting the docs up on here - they are very much blurred in a lot of the text. The KFI doc is slightly better than the T&Cs one.

 

Foxy

[AndyOrch]

Even though its hard to read I would say its enforcible the prescribed terms and key information are within the signatory area.

(being able to just make it out)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[foxyflugel]

Thanks Andy - although not what I wanted to hear

 

Am I right in thinking this is why they have invented the KFI doc from 2006? - even though the t &cs have altered from the original? Would it be worth pushing them for a copy of the TN or DN (Nov 2011 I think) or are these irrelevant because of the above?

 

If she has been shafted by this KFI doc - then what would you say her best course of action is? She has acknowledged saying she is going to defend and they have given her an extension until a couple of weeks (this was for the arrival of docs from CPR31.14). Is it normal practice to offer a f&f and pay in instalments? Or is she just best to attend court with an I&E and offer what she can afford each month - which won't be very much as she is a single parent.

 

Apologies for all the questions - but it's always easier to put your own neck on the line when decision-making than someone elses :-/

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Anyone??

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Can anyone add to this or advise on the way forward?

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

[blondie 27]

looking at all the advice you have recieved!!!!

 

Maybe best to just agree a monthly instalment plan, you may get in to deep if she intends to defend? dont try and be hero just pay? even if she offers £5 a month im sure they would rather than all court costs?

 

only saying dont need to tkae my advice?

 

good luck

[Guest]

foxy

from what has been posted, it seems that there is a signed doc that contains all of the prescribed terms.

could poss also defend on the dn issue? ie compliant dn needed before ct can enforce.

would cpr 18 be of any use?

is there anything else? eg missold ppi/charges? how much roughly is in issue?

otherwise, could consider a 'consent order' re instalments. this would avoid continuance if they accept. there is also poss mediation, if it gets that far.

could depend on her circs.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Ford

[sick of thames credit]

looking at all the advice you have recieved!!!!

 

Maybe best to just agree a monthly instalment plan, you may get in to deep if she intends to defend? dont try and be hero just pay? even if she offers £5 a month im sure they would rather than all court costs?

 

only saying dont need to tkae my advice?

 

good luck

 

debts going back to the last millenium are always worth disputing, plenty of more avenues for foxy to explore. I'm sure the experts will be along soon to help out.

[foxyflugel]

Ford, its around the £3k mark. What is a 'consent' order?

 

Her circumstances are that her an hubby split up and she is as good as in deficit each month just by paying bills - so has nothing to give them. She did offer a token payment each month (as she did her other creditors) and they refused, they also point blank refused to freeze interest and charges - however, the other creditors did - this bank are just being awkward - blood out of a stone springs to mind!!

 

Blondie - I'm not trying to be a hero -it's just that I've had dealings with these clowns and I am still learning about consumer rights etc - so she has no chance of attempting to deal with this herself - as they have hounded her that much she made herself ill, couldn't sleep etc. She did offer to pay but they refused her offer and to freeze interest etc - they would obviously rather go to court and still get the same payment amount as she offered previously - they are real works of art.

 

 

SOTC - too true - and the fact that these banks are not playing fair makes it even more worthwhile - wouldn't trust em as far as I can spit!

 

Foxy

[AndyOrch]

" its around the £3k mark. What is a 'consent' order? "

 

Its a form of agreement that halts litigation and stays the claim indefinably until the terms are broke then the claimant can either proceed or just enter judgment.It would avoid a County Court Judgment but from what you have stated they dont seem to be very amicable or interested in payment plans or FFS.Worse scenario Foxy is to proceed she loses the Claimant gets judgment but she will only pay what the Court deems acceptable on reflection of her financial circumstances.

 

Regards

 

Andy