Contribution based esa ending question

[count orlok]

Sorry my bad, I meant income based.

 

There is a very serious flaw with this. The government said they were going to get rid of IB because to many people were getting trown of the scrap heap (mind you I didn't beleive them). At least on IB you got your NI stamps and access to a JCP (or otherwise) job advisor. Under this new fairer (?) system, if your partner is on pension credits and you are on ESA WRAG. after a year you get thrown off with no access to any help looking for work, and you lose your NI credits and possibly access to a pension when of age.

[poollie1]

It doesn't work like that, Spots. I have never worked for various reasons and everything is income assessed. I don't have a partner but if I did, their income would matter from day 1. We also don't get everything for free - I still have to pay for my glasses.

 

If your income is really that low, you may get some more tax credits, housing and /or council tax benefits.

 

Sorry; but opinions like yours really **** me off. Not everyone who hasn't paid into the system has chosen not to pay. Their income either isn't enough or they've had bloody good reason not to work.

 

Still dont make it right though??does it..... we paid our contributions and probably had to live on a lot less income as you after we paid our Morgage/Rent/ Coucil Tax, managed to save a few bob then become ill and disabled not able to work,

with good reason...( your words) then not entitled to what we paid into after 365 days cos all our contributions are going to the likes of you, sorry if your offended but thats the facts and the way it is.

Edited April 22, 2012 by poollie1

[Nystagmite]

all our contributions are going to the likes of you, sorry if your offended but thats the facts and the way it is.

 

I do apologise for being born with various medical disorders, one of which could kill me and one has left me with other serious problems as a result.

 

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who hasn't been able to pay into the system is a scrounger. Many have had good reason not to pay into the system. It's not my fault I've spent a lot of the last 8 years being ill.

 

we paid our contributions and probably had to live on a lot less income as you

 

And how would you know how much income I have? I pay rent too.

[poollie1]

I do apologise for being born with various medical disorders, one of which could kill me and one has left me with other serious problems as a result.

 

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who hasn't been able to pay into the system is a scrounger. Many have had good reason not to pay into the system. It's not my fault I've spent a lot of the last 8 years being ill.

 

 

 

And how would you know how much income I have? I pay rent too.

 

Ditto after paying 20 years contributions and being seriously ill with life threatnening illness over the last 20 years, I find myself after 365 days with no income, I as a former tax payer have nothing to live on cos I took the decision to save a few bob in my younger days. And you must be on a good income from our contributions if you have to pay rent.

[Nystagmite]

And you must be on a good income from our contributions if you have to pay rent.

 

How? I live with my parents; so can't claim housing benefit.

[antone]

We don't have, on this forum, sufficient information to judge anyone's circumstances. I don't know what income anyone here has or what their outgoings are. So let's just stick to giving the best impartial advice we can.

[poollie1]

We don't have, on this forum, sufficient information to judge anyone's circumstances. I don't know what income anyone here has or what their outgoings are. So let's just stick to giving the best impartial advice we can.

 

Well I will tell you my circumstances, as said before worked and paid my contributions for 20 years whilst juggling a home and 4 very small children, then became unfit for work due to ill health and disabilities, on IB since 1993 until recently changing over to ESA placed into the Wrag Group, I now find myself with no income after 365 days as will 40,000 of us because we have managed to save a few bob and have partners who work. The majority of those 40,000 me included will have no choice but to try and find some sort of employment simply to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table, whilst others who have never paid into the system Nurse their illness and disabilities in comfort on mine and 40,000 other peoples contributions. I dont apologise for lack of sympathy towards these people, surely there has been some sort of employment they could partake in if only to contibute a little to the system then 40,000 people wouldnt be in this mess, dont think any sympathies will be coming my way when I"m homeless or found dead in a ditch somewhere.

Edited April 23, 2012 by poollie1

[poollie1]

How? I live with my parents; so can't claim housing benefit.

 

You will never have to worry about having a roof over your head then? the same as 40,000 of claimants who will be thrown on the scrapheap after 365 days, you are lucky in that sense.

[worried33]

for what its worth poolie I think the 365 day cap is very wrong.

 

However I think its also wrong to have a go at people like nystamite as it isnt his fault either.

 

Personally I am on contribution based as I have paid enough taxes and have a work history however I would also qualify for income based which has annoyed me I got put on contribution based as it meant I get less help on things like housing benefit.

 

The way I see it tho someone who is paying taxes is in effect paying in on the condition should they need the help the government will give it to them, its sort of like a nationalised insurance scheme. This 365 day limit seems to be a bail out by the government fromtheir obligations.

[Nystagmite]

You will never have to worry about having a roof over your head then? the same as 40,000 of claimants who will be thrown on the scrapheap after 365 days, you are lucky in that sense.

 

I'm not "lucky". My dad had 4 weeks off work due to his appendix rupturing and complications arising from that. My parents only had SSP to live on after they paid their mortgage. They are still struggling due to getting into debt (excluding what they owe me) along the way.

 

If your partner's income is that low, you may get some working tax credits.

 

I dont apologise for lack of sympathy towards these people, surely there has been some sort of employment they could partake in if only to contibute a little to the system

 

Where are these jobs, please?

 

hilst others who have never paid into the system

 

Who may have very good reason not to have done so. Don't judge people until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

ESA can be credits only

 

Credits Only cases

 

Cases known as Credits Only are for those individuals who:

 

 

• Do not satisfy the contribution conditions for ESA©,and
  
• Are not entitled to ESA(IR).
  

If a person claims but does not receive ESA they are credited with National Insurance contributions for each complete week that they have limited capability for work. These credits may help the person to qualify for ESA© at a future date. These credits also contribute towards entitlement to State Retirement Pension.

[poollie1]

I'm not "lucky". My dad had 4 weeks off work due to his appendix rupturing and complications arising from that. My parents only had SSP to live on after they paid their mortgage. They are still struggling due to getting into debt (excluding what they owe me) along the way.

 

If your partner's income is that low, you may get some working tax credits.

 

 

 

Where are these jobs, please?

 

 

 

Who may have very good reason not to have done so. Don't judge people until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

 

As I have explained before I think I have walked many miles in their shoes, and gonna be thrown on the scrapheap for the privelige, and as for where these jobs are, I suppose there in the same place as the one I will have no choice but to seek. My partner earns too much to claim Tax Credits but no where enough to provide for two people, but why should he?? I have paid into the system and expect the system to help me in my hour of need.

[antone]

I say again: we are not here to judge. There are people out there whose disability has existed since they were children and as such, have never been able to work. I agree that the new changes to ESA are unjust and will cause hardship, but that is not the fault of any member of this forum.

 

So, let's end the personal sniping right now.

[poollie1]

for what its worth poolie I think the 365 day cap is very wrong.

 

However I think its also wrong to have a go at people like nystamite as it isnt his fault either.

 

Personally I am on contribution based as I have paid enough taxes and have a work history however I would also qualify for income based which has annoyed me I got put on contribution based as it meant I get less help on things like housing benefit.

 

The way I see it tho someone who is paying taxes is in effect paying in on the condition should they need the help the government will give it to them, its sort of like a nationalised insurance scheme. This 365 day limit seems to be a bail out by the government fromtheir obligations.

 

The goverment I think have no option but to cut the welfare bill, funds are low, but why are they cutting it from people who have worked hard,as in my case for 20 years paying into the system, saving along the way, then become ill and unable to work, then after 365 days find themselves without an income to live on. All I am trying to say is if everyone had played the game fairly 40,000 claimants who it is going to affect wouldnt be in this mess. There is jobs out there for everyone especially us lot on this forum, if we can type on here we can work in Data Input even if has to be homebased, but some people refuse to play the game fairly.

[worried33]

The goverment I think have no option but to cut the welfare bill, funds are low, but why are they cutting it from people who have worked hard,as in my case for 20 years paying into the system, saving along the way, then become ill and unable to work, then after 365 days find themselves without an income to live on. All I am trying to say is if everyone had played the game fairly 40,000 claimants who it is going to affect wouldnt be in this mess. There is jobs out there for everyone especially us lot on this forum, if we can type on here we can work in Data Input even if has to be homebased, but some people refuse to play the game fairly.

 

there is always a choice. the government chooses where to cut and how much to tax. As it is they have decided they can afford a high speed rail link from london to birmingham as well as writing of tax to some large companies. They have of course also decided to make more welfare cuts. But dont be fooled into thinking they have to do what they doing with no alternative and start blaming other benefit claimants, thats you doing what they want us all fighting amongst each other deflecting from the real causes of problems. I agree with what antone has said.

[Nystagmite]

Surely, you should be moaning at the fact that those earning £150k plus a year are now having the amount of tax they pay, cut? Or those who claim child benefit and tax credits for children that live abroad? And not those of us who are unfortunate enough to have never worked. Contrary to popular belief, most people who have never worked, want to.

 

There is jobs out there for everyone especially us lot on this forum, if we can type on here we can work in Data Input even if has to be homebased, but some people refuse to play the game fairly.

 

There are over 2 million people out there with no jobs. People are losing jobs every day. It's not unusual for there to be well over 100 people going for one job. Whereas years ago, there may have been 10 or 15 people going for the one job.

[worried33]

Yeah I would also imagine fair few on this forum may have even looked for home based data input I certianly have.

 

However I then found 99% of the jobs advertised are fraud that demand up front training fees for non existant jobs. Some job sites now even ban advertising of any home based data input job for that specific reason.

 

The one legit home based job required to work on their london based ofice for 2 months first, so thats fone as long as have the money to travel to london and stay there for that time, are healthy enough to travel there, healthy enough to work there for 2 months and of course do the interviews etc.

 

The jobs out there for everyone comment sorry to say is completely detached frm the truth. Alot of jobs advertised dont even exist and are just agencies looking for people to get on their books.

[poollie1]

Excuse after Excuse, I"m all right Jack F........k the rest attitudes.

[poollie1]

I say again: we are not here to judge. There are people out there whose disability has existed since they were children and as such, have never been able to work. I agree that the new changes to ESA are unjust and will cause hardship, but that is not the fault of any member of this forum.

 

So, let's end the personal sniping right now.

 

Dont patronise me I have my opinion as you do and I will express it in any way I feel fit.

[poollie1]

I say again: we are not here to judge. There are people out there whose disability has existed since they were children and as such, have never been able to work. I agree that the new changes to ESA are unjust and will cause hardship, but that is not the fault of any member of this forum.

 

So, let's end the personal sniping right now.

 

Dont patronise me, I have an opinion just the same as everyone else and I will express that opinion however I wish.

[Nystagmite]

There's no need to be so rude.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

have you tried to claim working tax credits Poolie, in a previous thread you have stated you have high mob low care, you may be entitled if your partner is on low wages

[Nystagmite]

Some people have said that if the disabled person isn't the one working, the disability premium can't be claimed?

[suziebear67]

Well spoke to jc today and i shall be 6 pounds a week worse of with partner living here than i would be living by myself when his esa stops the 30th of march. The woman at jc said just wait for appeal to be heard grrrrrrrrrrrr. Have decided if he cant get any work at all he shall move out so he can get income based esa and it will cost goverment more in long run as they will have to pay his rent and council tax.

[suziebear67]

forgot to say its the goverment we should all be angry with for the esa being stopped after 365 days not peoples individual circunstances.