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    • Thanks I just had a quick look.  Will study over the w/e My friend does have kids. But it's a really dysfunctional family.  They don't talk.   Many years ago he sold 2 property assets and gave them a lot of money (enough to buy homes w/o loans) .  They've done nothing for him in the last 2 decades. And he altered his will so his new partner gets everything; the kids nothing (more). The 1st form I glanced at - to be deputy - asks for family details.   If I give his kids details I suspect the authorities may say they should get the deputy job instead?  Then  they will steal the money and give nothing to his partner. I can get a copy of the medical assessment  - and get it translated.  If need be.   This has all happened very quickly.  He got sick. And that must have kick-started dementia.   He was fine to hold a detailed conversation 6months ago; now he cant
    • Hi I think the only way around this as he lacks capacity is someone is going to have to apply to be a deputies via the Courts as he has assets here in the UK and a UK Bank Account which will take time and there will possible be Court Fees to make the application. Also if the Lack of Capacity (Dementia) was diagnosed abroad the person applying for deputies will need that diagnosis and it will need to be translated legally for the UK Courts so possibly cost for this as well. Also for reference although you were assisting them before the lack of capacity and had authority to act on there behalf that no longer stands due to there diagnosis of Dementia therefore Lack of Capacity so you no longer have any authority legally to act on there behalf unless the below is actioned or someone has Power of Attorney for that individual (which was setup before the Lack of Capacity) Have a wee look at these links: https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/private-client/mental-capacity-international-aspects#:~:text=You might need to make,act within the foreign jurisdiction https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian I have got to ask with the Dementia diagnoses are you 100% sure the diagnosis states they Lack Capacity as not everyone that gets a Dementia diagnoses may lack capacity initially. Now the Office of the Public Guardian link above you could also consider giving them a call just to give them a brief on this situation and get there advice on what documents etc are needed for deputies to be appointed as the person with Lack of Capacity is abroad.
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Contract terminated as a result of a CRB Check


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Sorry in advance, but this will be long, but I will need to furnish all the information. This is on behalf of my daughter.

 

She is a self-employed Housing Benefits Contractor and obtains work through appointed government agencies and for 15 years has had regular local authority contracts.

 

In December 2011 she was approached by an agency on behalf of one of their clients with an eleventh month contract Jan 2012 to Nov 2012. She jumped at this as they are hard to come by.

 

3.1.12 started at X Authority

4.1.12 completed an CRB application.

15.2.12 copy of CRB check report arrived which noted 2 offences from 21 years ago - shoplifting suspended sentence, receiving stolen goods suspended sentence.

 

22.2.12 Called into the office by line manager who advised her because of the CRB Report they were having to let her go. Obviously she was mortified.

 

Several issues seem to have arisen here as I have been researching since this time.

 

In 2007 my daughter being self employed requested a CRB for herself and was told by the CRB that her job did not warrant it under Rehabilitation of Offenders ct 1974(exceptions) order 1975.

 

On this basis I wrote and complained to the CRB and requested why they issued a report to X Authority when the job didn't need one. They have responded, this is a brief extract.

 

"The role of a Benefits Officer would not appear to meet any of the aforementioned criteria; therefore would not appear to be legally entitled to be checked. A CRB check should only be requested by an employer when the role meets legal entitlement for a check. The individual and the employing organisation should be sure that a CRB check is warranted for the role".

 

My daughter was foolish to sign the form having already been advised that the job did not require it, but she was so keen to get the contract she didn't want to make waves so as to speak. She did actually tick the box where it says no convictions, she said never thought that they would now be on her record.

 

She has been to see her MP as she believes that as these are government departments he would help. No he will not get involved told her to go to Citizen's Advice.

 

For me the issues emanating from all of this are

 

a) Why did the CRB send the report knowing Housing Benefits were excluded?

b) The LA have obviously lied by applying for a CRB check has they should know it doesn't warrant one

c) Both convictions were over 21 years old and spent, so is she not being descriminate against, along with others that may have fallen foul over the years?

d) Should Human Resources have passed such information to a line manager, should they have not dealt with this themselves? Have they broken DPA by this action?

 

I have written to HR who advised me that they do not deal with agency staff thats why it was passed to a line manager, in which case, why did they do the CRB check and not ask the Agency to do it?

 

My daughter understands from the Agency that when the LA terminated the contract they were told to ask her why she was terminated.

 

Incidentally, this contract was not advertised as the team leaders at X Authority knew my daughter from previous contracts so knew her work ethic.

 

What she is really concerned about it is because this LA share information with other LA's it may prevent her from getting contracts there in the future, two of these are already regular contracts.

 

Any advice on how to proceed further would be greatly appreciated.

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Should those offences not have been expunged from any record after such a length of time ?

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Hi Housing benefits is not actually excluded, note the words would not appear (not difinitive) the LA only requests CRBs for the departments that are registered to apply for them, anyone can get a basic CRB but the criteria is different for a full one.

It is up to the HB dept if they feel that the position warrents a CRB in her position she may be dealing with vulnerable people or making home visits in which case a CRB would be required.

A full/enhanced CRB shows convictions that are spent unlike a basic CRB and it is up to the employer if he takes note of spent convictions.

No reason why HR should not have passed to the direct line manager but CRBs are destroyed once they have been referred to,copies are not allowed to be kept and the LA will not share this info with other authorities because they are not allowed to.

Many rules have been amended since 2007 when your daughter first asked about a CRB and many more job descriptions are now seemingly falling into the need a CRB category.

The agency are probably not registered to do a CRB check as they are not the employer, only certain organisations are registered to ask for CRBs

Overall I would say that the councern of the council in this instance would fall under the vulnerable adults category from the information that you have given but without knowing exactly what her job entails and who she deals with I cant really say.

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First of all this was a standard CRB check. Secondly, her Agency advised her that Housing Benefit does not warrant a CRB Check and thirdly she does not do home visits. Purely employed on an assessing basis.

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I would advise contact Criminal Record Bureau for clarifiction - could be that the job came under the Exceptions rule, however in some cases they can be removed dependant on her age at time of offence http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/agencies-public-bodies/crb/services/crb-checks-fees/

I used to deal with this in my last job as recruitment advisor and sometime it is just overzealous agencies trying to win suppliers contract by promising Businesses that they will provide X,Y,Zin order to get preferred supplier contracts....smae problem with Credit checks. Not required for the job, but a sellin point for agencies!!

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It would be unlawful to dismiss in the grounds of spent convictions, but I think it's more likely she's been dismissed for lying on her application form and stating she didn't when she did. It appears to me to be a point of dishonesty rather than the conviction itself.

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They never actually said that, they said because of the CRB check they had to let her go. Whilst I do agree with you it was never intended as a lie because she has always believed that they never existed because of the length of time.

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Many council require a CRB for housing officers and contracts officers

A std but not a basic CRB will show convictions spent or not

An Individual cannot apply for their own std/enhanced CRB

When she does assesments does she come into contact with the public if yes it could still be considered necessary under the vulnerable adults category

As for agency advising a CRB is not needed, in my experience agencies are not always the peoplke who know the answers, to be fair the council would not have been able to get a CRB unless the job discription etc fell into the correct categories for a CRB.

i agree that she cannot be dismissed due to spent convictions but she did say she didnt have any convictions on the form.

I dont actually think you have much option but to accept that this job wasnt to be for whatever reason.

I am not actually sure that the council were acting incorrectly by not advertising the job as in my experience they have to advertise even if they know who they intend appointing.

As I said in my original reply the council will not be sharing any information from a CRB with pother councils and it will have been destroyed almost immedietly

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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My daughter is a limited company and as such she can apply for her own CRB check but the CRB said her job didnt come under this. They had a copy of the JD at that time. I have a copy of the CRB Report that came and it clearly states on it "Standard Disclosure" and they have listed the convictions.

 

Her job does not involve interviewing, she is an Assessor.

 

The contract was placed with the agency to cover maternity leave.

 

I personally believe that the CRB should not have sent this report out.

 

I have seen on this site people questioning whether convictions would be listed on a CRB check and the advice I have seen is that shoplifting for instant over 7 years would not appear, I think peeps should be aware that this may not always be the case.

 

Thank you for all the replies so far, and I have to say a lot of them have been similar to my own opinions. Apart from the CRB report I believe they have been over zealous.

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All conviction spent or otherwise will appear on a std disclosure the only one that they wont appear on is a basic disclosure which is only available from disclosure Scotland, (this is the simple one used for disclosures under things like The Licensing Act when a person is applying for a personal licence).

I personally think that this is somthing that needs reviewing as many people do things when they are young and silly and to be fair they should be able in most instances to put them behind them.

I agree they seem to have been over zealous but if your daughters main concern is that her CRB will be disclosed to other LA's it almost certainly wont be, all I would say is that if this situation arises again she she speak to the employer and get it cleared up before they send off for a CRB, also it might help her to get a basic one from disclosure Scotland although all CRB's are only valid really on the day they are prointed she could take it with her in case an employer says she needs one and they may just accept that one.

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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Absolutely agree with you after 21 years and no other criminal records you would think anyone should be able to put that behind them. Thank you for your advice, this is very much appreciated. She is going to try and get them expunged and I will advise her about obtaining a basic one.

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Good luck hope you get it all sorted out. for the basic disclosure just put disclosure scotland into google and it can be done on line it dosnt cost much and takes 2-3 weeks to come back at the most.

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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