County Court Claim - Hillesden Securities

[BigDebtor1]

Thanks alot CB and apologies for the late reply.

 

I didnt get the chance to send the cca request ill wait for the cpr reply, I read in one of your replys to a thread that we should send all cpr requests to the claimants solicitors, but ive sent it to the claimant, would that be a problem? should i also send one to the solicitors ?

 

thanks

[citizenB]

CPR requests should go to the solicitor - if you have sent it to the claimant then I doubt you will obtain a response.. All communication regarding the claim should be made to the solicitor !!

 

I think you might need to send it out again.

 

 

From post # 3 of this thread..

 

You will need to obtain as much information as you can. If a document is mentioned in the Particulars of claim, then you can send a CPR31.14 request to the Claimant's solicitor for that document.

[BigDebtor1]

aahh thank you once again CB. ill send it first thing in the morning

[BigDebtor1]

Hi Guys, I just received a reply to my CPR 31.14 Request which I sent to Hillesden but the reply I got is from DLC,

heres what it says.

 

Dear Bigdebtor1,

 

Client: hillesden

Court: Northampton

xxxxxx

xxxxxx

 

We acknowledge receipt of your request for information firled in accordance with Part 31.14 of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

We are still awaiting copy documentation from the original lender and will forward it to you in due course. We confirm that your account will remain on hold until we have done so.

 

yours

litigation.

 

Now I need to file for defence by the 09th, but im confused about whos's dealing with this cos on the CCC it says the solicitors are Aplins, the claimants are Hillesden but who are DLC? now should I email DLC to request extension of time or should I email Aplins or Hillesden? or should I speak to the court? as they havent mentioned anything about the time, or should I wait for the copy documentations from the original lender and if they dont get to me by the 8th of april should I just send ED?

 

Please any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

thanks

[BigDebtor1]

can anyone help me in this please?

[citizenB]

responding to S.O.S. Just trying to make some sense out of this.. ..

[citizenB]

Righto.. it looks to me as though this has got a bit muddled because you sent the CPR to Hillsden instead of the Solicitor.

 

DLC, I believe are part of Hillsden.. their collections department..

 

Yep, Direct Legal and Collections are a trading style of Hillesden Securities ..

 

I think you now need to contact the SOLICITORS. .. Your communication should be along the line of..

 

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

COURT Ref

ACCOUNT ref

 

In respect of the above, CPR 31.14 request was sent to the Claimant in error.

 

I have just received a response from Direct Legal and Collections, who I believe are a trading style of the Claimant, Hillsden Securities that "we are waiting copy documentation from the original lender" and that the "account is on hold".

 

As this account is subject to a claim and bound by court time table, I am not quite sure how DLC are in a posiiton to just put the "claim on hold".

 

 

I am therefore requesting that you agree an extension of 28 days as per CPR15.5 in order for you to fulfill your obligations in providing me with the information requested and for me to submit a fully particularlised defence

 

 

“Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5

 

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part15

 

 

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a

defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.”

 

However, please bear in mind that it is my responsibility to advise the court of any extension and I will require your agreement to this request in writing and for it to be received in sufficient time in order to contact them with the new filing date in writing as per CPR15.5 (2).

 

I therefore request that you respond to this letter as a matter of urgency.

 

 

Yours etc.

 

You can either email them or telephone them in this respect only .. If you phone Do NOT get sidetracked... you need to speak to the file handler on your case.

 

If they agree then you will need their confirmation in writing of a new filing date which doesnt exceed 28 days outside of the original filing date. You then need to send a copy of that confirmation along with the letter below to Court Manager at Northampton.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your Name and Address

 

 

Her Majesty’s Court Service County Court Bulk Centre Northampton County Court St Katherine’s House

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

FAO: The Court Manager DATE

 

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Re:

Case No:

Claimant’s ref:

 

NOTIFICATION OF EXTENSION OF FILING DATE – CPR15.5

 

I have today spoken to NAME, of Solicitors, who are acting on behalf of the claimant in this case.

 

It was agreed that due to the fact they are unable to dispatch documents, vital to my defence, until DATE that an extension in accordance with CPR15.5 will be appropriate.

 

The new filing date agreed with NAME is NEW DATE.

 

I enclose a copy of my letter and their confirmation in respect of this. I trust this is acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

Enclosed, Copy letters

 

 

 

If they dont agree, then you have two choices.. file a holding/embarrassed defence or make application to the court for more time on Court Doc N244 which will cost you either £40 or £80 depending on whether it is with a hearing or not.

[BigDebtor1]

Thank you very much for helping citizenB, i feel alot calmer now. thanks I will email solicitors now

[citizenB]

You are welcome. Let us know how you get on

[BigDebtor1]

Hi guys I need help. its been 13 days i sent the cpr31.14 letter to the claimant but so far no documents have arrived only a letter fron DLC saying they have recieved my cpr request and the account is put on hold, I have only 6 days to file defence. so now i do send an N244 for extension of time? or and if so how do i write a draft order? please any help would be appreciated.

 

thanks

[BigDebtor1]

Can anyone please help me write an embarrassed defence? I have to email it by tomorrow because of the holidays.

 

I would really appreciate it

 

thanks

[mystery1]

Can you put up the particulars of claim, minus personal details ?

 

M1

[BigDebtor1]

HI mystery1, thanks for your reply,

here are the POC

 

The Claimant's Claim is in respect of a credit facility, xxxxxxxxxxxx,

privided by Lloyds Tsb Bank Plc at the Defendant's request on xx/11/2003.

The agreement was subsequently defaulted.

Failure to meet requests for payment resulted in the account being terminated. On xx/06/2011,

all legal and beneficial interest for the monies was assigned to Hillesden Securities Ltd.

The Defendant was duly notified in writing of the assignment and that a balance of xxxxx was due.

The balance of xxxxx remains owing from the defendant.

[mystery1]

I'd ask them to replead their case. Credit facility = Loan, credit card, overdraft ???

 

The agreement was defaulted how ? What terms were broken etc etc

 

Is the agreement regulated ?

 

From the particulars of claim you cannot deduce much information. (you might have an idea from YOUR knowledge but that's not important)

 

The particulars of claim are terrible.

 

M1

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_part03a

[BigDebtor1]

Hi M1 thanks for your reply, how do I get them to replead? I have till tomorrow to email in the defence. I looked at some embarrassed defences heres what im thinking of sending

please let me know if its relevant and if I can change anything

 

 

Defence

I xxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxx, London, am thedefendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to theclaim made by Hillesden Securites Ltd.

1. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to theParticulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

 

2. The claim made by the claimant, Hillesden Securites Ltd is very vague andfails to particularise an adequate cause of action.

Except whereotherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegationmade in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proofthereof.

 

3. I am unable to properly plead this case as to pleading to the particulars ofclaim as they fail to comply with the Civil Procedure rules

 

The claimant was sent a request pursuant to CPR 31.14 for documentation insupport of the claim. The claimant has failed to produce all the requireddocumentation.

 

See exhibit (a) and response from the alleged creditor exhibit (b)

4. The claimant has failed to reply to a request made by defendant under CPR15.5 for the extension of time.

 

5. The claimant has failed to also attach a copy of a compliant defaultnotice which they claim has been served under s87 (1) Consumer credit act 1974

 

the claimant has failed to produce the original default notice from theoriginal creditor, LloydsTSB Bank Plc.

 

6. The claimant has also failed to enclose the terms and conditions that were valid when this accountwas opened.

 

 

7. The defendant would like to inform the court that the alleged agreement isnow STATUTE BARRED. By virtue of

SECTION 5 OF THE LIMITATIONS ACT 1980 , THAT ANY ACTION FOUNDED ON SIMPLECONTRACT SHALL NOT BE BROUGHT AFTER THE EXPIRATION OF SIX YEARS FROM THE DATEON WHICH THE CAUSE OF ACTION ACCURED.

 

DEFAULT NOTICE

 

8. Notwithstanding the matters pleaded above, the claimant must under section87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 serve a default notice before they can demandpayment under a regulated credit agreement

 

9. It is neither admitted nor denied that any Default Notice in the prescribedformat was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proofthat said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant

 

10. Notwithstanding point 8, I put the claimant to strict proof that any defaultnotice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs tobe accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include anaccurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format forsuch document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default andTermination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and amendment regulations the Consumer Credit(Enforcement, Default and Termination

 

11. The claimant has failed to supply as to the defendants request under CPR31.14, a copy of the original default notice from the original creditor,LloydsTSB Bank Plc.

.

12. Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the defaultnotice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent thecourt enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damagesKpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119

 

AGREEMENT

13. The claimant has failed to enclose the alleged agreement fromLloydsTSB Bank Plc to have the authority to bring this claim

 

CONCLUSION

 

14. As the claimants have previously denied the defendant the opportunity to seethe original documents, see exhibit (a) and exhibit (b). The defendantconsiders that ample time has already been given for these to be produced.Therefore it is deemed unnecessary for the court to use the CPR procedures toenforce the claimant to produce the following

ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION

 

(A) A COPY OF THE termsand conditions THAT WERE VALID AT THE TIME OFSIGNING THE AGREEMENT.

 

(B) A COPY OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT AGREEMENT FROM LLOYDSTSB BANK PLC.

 

© A FULL FINANCIAL Breakdown ONHOW THE ALLEGED DEBT HAS BEEN ASSERTAINED BY .FULL STATEMENTS OF ACCOUNTS FROMTHE ORIGINAL CREDITOR, LLOYDSTSB BANK PLC...

 

(D) A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL DEFAULT NOTICE ISSUED BY LLOYDSTSB BANK PLC.

 

"The defendant wishes to allow the claimant additional time to produce thedocuments mentioned and would respectfully ask the court to allowa further 40 days for this. Should the documents not be produced then thedefendant asks the court to exercise its powers to strike out the claimants claim.

 

No leave to appeal should be allowed for the claimant as they have had morethan sufficient time to provide the original copies and in fact under CPR rulesshould have had them BEFORE they set the claim in process."

 

15. I further ask the court consider striking out the claimants’ case as itfails to comply with part 16 and practice direction 16 insofar that nodocuments have been supplied and fails to show any consideration to theoverriding objective to allow the court to deal with this case justly

 

16. The defendant will be asking for permission from the court to amend thisdefence if needed when and if the claimant releases the required information.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mystery1]

You need to make an application to the court to do this.

 

Some info in the link i gave http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_part03a

 

Firstly i would phone the solicitors for them and seek agreement on an extension of time for filing a defence. How can you defend nothing ? Make sure they confirm in writing (email, fax) as you then need to let the court know and copy their written agreement.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?241827-Legal-Action-how-to-start-off.-IMPORTANT-IF-YOURE-BEING-SUED

 

Also a condensed version of that thread with a few tidibits was posted by Citizenb in reply 3 on this thread.

 

They say they defaulted you. If this is a regulated agreement then if you have defaulted they need a default notice to enable them to enforce. They haven't pleaded such. They can't win on this unless they change it. No cause of action.

 

M1

[BigDebtor1]

Hi M1 ive already written to them for an extension under cpr15.5 but no reply yet

[mystery1]

Time isn't on your side. Phone them. Make sure you're speaking to the case handler.

 

M1

[BigDebtor1]

Hi M1, I rang Aplins, they said the person who's dealing isnt available, however they have received the request and will reply in due course,

 

what do I do now?

[mystery1]

Phone them back.

 

Explain that you have not had compliance with your request and that if they do not agree to an extension of time you will apply to the court for same and will seek award of the costs of doing so.

 

If the case handler is not available speak to someone more senior.

 

If they **** about make an application to the court.

 

 

M1

[citizenB]

Is this statute barred or not ?

 

If so, put in the statute barred defence. If not, then just have them replead..

 

I am just having a read through your thread to see where you are at.. BRB

[BigDebtor1]

Hi CitizenB thanks for your reply, Im not sure if its statute barred or not it could be I dont remember if the last payment I made was in 2006 or 2007

[citizenB]

Hi M1 thanks for your reply, how do I get them to replead? I have till tomorrow to email in the defence. I looked at some embarrassed defences heres what im thinking of sending

please let me know if its relevant and if I can change anything

 

 

 

Defence

 

I xxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxx, London, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Hillesden Securites Ltd.

 

 

1. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to theParticulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

 

 

2. The claim made by the claimant, Hillesden Securites Ltd is very vague and fails to particularise an adequate cause of action.

 

Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. I am unable to properly plead this case as to pleading to the particulars of claim as they fail to comply with the Civil Procedure rules

 

The claimant was sent a request pursuant to CPR 31.14 for documentation in support of the claim. The claimant has failed to produce all the required documentation.

 

See exhibit (a) and response from the alleged creditor exhibit (b)

 

4. The claimant has failed to reply to a request made by defendant under CPR15.5 for the extension of time.

 

5. The claimant has failed to also attach a copy of a compliant default notice which they claim has been served under s87 (1) Consumer credit act 1974

 

the claimant has failed to produce the original default notice from theoriginal creditor, LloydsTSB Bank Plc.

 

6. The claimant has also failed to enclose the terms and conditions that were valid when this accountwas opened.

YOU SAID YOU WERE PAYING UP UNTIL 2007 IN WHICH CASE THIS IS NOT STATUTE BARRED UNLESS YOU LIVE IN SCOTLAND - IN ANY CASE YOU WOULDNT STICK THIS STATEMENT IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEFENCE !!

 

 

7. The defendant would like to inform the court that the alleged agreement isnow STATUTE BARRED. By virtue of

SECTION 5 OF THE LIMITATIONS ACT 1980 , THAT ANY ACTION FOUNDED ON SIMPLECONTRACT SHALL NOT BE BROUGHT AFTER THE EXPIRATION OF SIX YEARS FROM THE DATEON WHICH THE CAUSE OF ACTION ACCURED.

 

DEFAULT NOTICE

 

8. Notwithstanding the matters pleaded above, the claimant must under section87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 serve a default notice before they can demandpayment under a regulated credit agreement

 

9. It is neither admitted nor denied that any Default Notice in the prescribedformat was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proofthat said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant

 

10. Notwithstanding point 8, I put the claimant to strict proof that any defaultnotice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs tobe accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include anaccurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format forsuch document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default andTermination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and amendment regulations the Consumer Credit(Enforcement, Default and Termination

 

11. The claimant has failed to supply as to the defendants request under CPR31.14, a copy of the original default notice from the original creditor,LloydsTSB Bank Plc.

.

12. Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the defaultnotice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent thecourt enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damagesKpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119

 

AGREEMENT

13. The claimant has failed to enclose the alleged agreement fromLloydsTSB Bank Plc to have the authority to bring this claim

 

CONCLUSION

 

14. As the claimants have previously denied the defendant the opportunity to seethe original documents, see exhibit (a) and exhibit (b). The defendantconsiders that ample time has already been given for these to be produced.Therefore it is deemed unnecessary for the court to use the CPR procedures toenforce the claimant to produce the following

ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION

 

(A) A COPY OF THE termsand conditions THAT WERE VALID AT THE TIME OFSIGNING THE AGREEMENT.

 

(B) A COPY OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT AGREEMENT FROM LLOYDSTSB BANK PLC.

 

© A FULL FINANCIAL Breakdown ONHOW THE ALLEGED DEBT HAS BEEN ASSERTAINED BY .FULL STATEMENTS OF ACCOUNTS FROMTHE ORIGINAL CREDITOR, LLOYDSTSB BANK PLC...

 

(D) A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL DEFAULT NOTICE ISSUED BY LLOYDSTSB BANK PLC.

 

"The defendant wishes to allow the claimant additional time to produce thedocuments mentioned and would respectfully ask the court to allowa further 40 days for this. Should the documents not be produced then thedefendant asks the court to exercise its powers to strike out the claimants claim.

 

No leave to appeal should be allowed for the claimant as they have had morethan sufficient time to provide the original copies and in fact under CPR rulesshould have had them BEFORE they set the claim in process."

 

15. I further ask the court consider striking out the claimants’ case as itfails to comply with part 16 and practice direction 16 insofar that nodocuments have been supplied and fails to show any consideration to theoverriding objective to allow the court to deal with this case justly

 

16. The defendant will be asking for permission from the court to amend thisdefence if needed when and if the claimant releases the required information.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, this is a mess.. give me a few minutes.. BRB

[citizenB]

i, big debtor of consumer action group am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by xxxxxxxxx .

 

1. The defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the particulars of claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

 

2. The claimant’s particulars of claim disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with cpr part 16. In this regard i wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters;

 

a) the particulars of claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to; the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant's claim.

 

B) a copy of the purported written agreement that the claimant cites in the particulars of claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

C) a copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.

3. On receipt of the claim form the defendant sent a cpr 31.14 request for a copy of the agreement and supporting documents which forms the basis of this claim

4. The documents requested were, in addition to the agreement as above, statements or statement of account showing how the balance claimed has accrued, a copy of the default notice, the termination notice and the notice of assignment. To date no response has been received from the claimant.

 

5. It has been confirmed via the royal mail website that the above letter was received and signed for.

6: Furthermore, in an effort to not be disadvantaged by the claimant's failure to provide the very information their claim is based upon, i sought to request an extension of time under cpr15.5, in order for the claimant to provide the information requested.

7. The claimant has so far failed to respond to this request.

8. Consequently, i deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof

 

9. I respectfully request a stay in proceedings until such time as the claimant complies with the requests outlined in paragraphs 3 and 4 above or until the court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a fully particularised defence and counterclaim and will seek the court’s permission to amend my statement of case accordingly.

 

 

hth

[BigDebtor1]

Hi CitizenB, Thank you very much for helping me out, I will email this to northampton straight away. in the mean time do I still carry on requesting the docs?