Judgment Order

[asokn]

Andyorch, I think the reason for the application has already been given. I don't see what relevance the above really has as clearly the paperwork was received and I don't believe there's any suggestion of fraud.

 

Anyway, to the OP; what precisely did you say in your N244? Does the latest order have a recital such as "upon hearing..." or "upon considering the file..."? That will help us to work out what is going on.

[AndyOrch]

asoky

 

It is clear the application was not concise enough to explain the grounds for set a side, obviously the Court didn't understand the application judging by its decision,hence the bold reason in red.

[asokn]

Is it being suggested that someone used the OP's name to obtain credit? I must have missed that. If that is the OP's case he needs to sue his wife for fraud.

[Old2072]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for your quick reply,

 

First in my N244 form I wrote that the debt was my wife's, as she was the sole trader in the shop and I just worked there, I also sent a copy of the VAT registration form which states her as the sole trader.

 

The form today say's " Before District Judge Godwin sitting at Aberystwyth District Registry.

Upon reading the defendants application dated 29th March 2012

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

Application to set aside be dismissed

 

Reason as I just said,

 

Roy

[AndyOrch]

How is your wife dealing with the judgment? Has she paid in full or made payment arrangement? Is the debt now settled?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Old2072]

Hi andyorch,

 

My wife has always told the company that she was the sole trader and accepted that it is her debt, she has told them that due to her having to close her shop down she has large debts (in the region of £30,000 I think) and unless she can get employment may be forced to declare herself bankcrupt.

 

Roy

[AndyOrch]

Accepted but she was also issued with a summons along with yourself so what as she done about hers? Defended, paid nothing, got a CCJ, tried to set a side?

 

Was it a joint or separate summons?

 

 

Andy

Edited April 18, 2012 by Andyorch

[Old2072]

Hi andyorch,

 

Yea she was the 2nd Defendant.

 

As far as I know she as got a CCJ but has not sorted out any payments yet.

 

Roy

[AndyOrch]

Ok Old

 

Without prying am I right to assume that you and yours have now separated? How did the supplier get your details or think that you was joint?

 

Sorry for all the Q,s but to enable you to set this a side successfully I have to know all the facts.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Old2072]

Hi,

We we are in theory still together but not really speaking, she is living with her mother and has done for a while. The supplier had our address and I used to speak with them as it was me who used to order things or go and collect things from them on her behalf, but when it came to payments I always told them it was nothing to do with me and I would pass the message on.

 

Roy

[AndyOrch]

Thankyou Old

 

Ok so you must now make a decision on your next move, you can set a side the latest order and contest the Court decision or resubmit a fresh application to set a side but with a more concise explanation and evidence as to why you should not be served with the summons.

 

If you could post up your initial defence that you submitted and also a copy of the last application you made and we can see what can be done.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Old2072]

Hi Andyorch,

 

My initial defence I sent outlined what my role. I helped out in the shop ordering and collecting goods for my wife. I did not open any accounts with suppliers or could make payments as I could not access the bank account. I sent a copy of a bank statement along with the VAT registration for that clearly show' K....... L..... SOLE TRADER.

My last application was similar to the first sending the VAT form only this time.

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Old

 

Simply not strong enough it could be construed that you are trying to distance yourself from a joint and several debt.Can you post up verbatim the wording of the Particulars of Claim from the summons.

 

Andy

[asokn]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for your quick reply,

 

First in my N244 form I wrote that the debt was my wife's, as she was the sole trader in the shop and I just worked there, I also sent a copy of the VAT registration form which states her as the sole trader.

 

The form today say's " Before District Judge Godwin sitting at Aberystwyth District Registry.

Upon reading the defendants application dated 29th March 2012

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

Application to set aside be dismissed

 

Reason as I just said,

 

Roy

 

So it appears the order was indeed made without a hearing, in which case it must contain a statement o your right to apply to set the order aside within 7 days of service. I'll check the White book tonight for the reference if no-one gets there before me! You should be able to apply to set aside the order, a further application to set aside the original judgment would be dismissed as an abuse of process, and have a hearing listed.

 

The problem though is that, sooner or later, you will need to attend court to put your case and you don't seem financially able. Is there no civil court that you can travel to/get a lift to?

[Old2072]

Hi Andy,

 

The wording of the particulars of claim are;

 

Mr and Mrs L owned a shop in LL.... called R.... We had been trading with them selling certain goods ie beer & wine. They owed us £..... and had promised to pay us asap. They then closed the shop and left. They have behaved in a very poor manner with no consideration or thought for our business. They have lied and failed to keep promises but I think this shows them up for the type of people they are.

 

My reply:

 

They where told what was happening, they knew the shop was about to close and I have asked them to produce an account witch I have signed to show I am responsible for any debt, but they have failed to do so.

 

Roy

[Old2072]

Hi asokn,

 

If I have to it look's like I will have to find a way of getting to court to sort this out,

 

Roy

[AndyOrch]

The claim was initially issued through Northampton (CCBC) you submitted a defence and the claim was transferred to your local court (Aberystwyth?)

You couldn't attend and they got judgment. You made application to set a side your summons (not your wife's) and this as been dismissed for the reason stated by the court.

I would simply set a side the order as I have already advised (check the order and dates as this must be done usually within 7 days).

We need to work on a fresh wording application Roy that will carry a bit of clout.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Old2072]

Hi Andy,

 

Yea you are spot on. The last Order is dated 12 April 2012 and I got it today 18th April. It was sent to my old address,I'm lucky I have my post on redirection so l go it, the last time I wrote to court when I asked for this to be set aside I told them my new address and the letter I had to show I am on benefit also stated my new address.

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

[AndyOrch]

Ok well nothing can be done now until Monday, in the meantime apart from your wife's vat documentation have you got or can get hold of any tax documentation or sales invoices from suppliers to her in her sole name.Did you take a salary from the business and prove you was not self employed but employed by your wife.Did you pay any tax?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[debbbbsy]

I think your problem here, is not that it is not your debt, but that you received the court papers and the claim form but failed to defend it.

 

Your application to set a side should have also included an explanation why you failed to defend the claim.

 

Debbie

[asokn]

That's absolutely right, you are tryingto set aside the judgment now entered so you need to focus on your failure to attend. It will be difficult because you now say you *could* attend court so the obvious question, despite the explanation you have given which won't stand up to scrutiny, is why you failed to attend last time.

[Old2072]

Hi,

 

Andy, I will try and see what I can find, I didn't take a salary as I only helped out now and then, I looked after the house mainly.

 

Debbie, I did defend the claim from the start, I sent all the information and proof to Northampton but it seems that it wasn't given to the judge originally, I sent it again stating I had sent it originally when asking to be set aside.

 

Roy

[asokn]

The defendant had opportunity to attend court to put forward his case but failed to do so.

 

The problem, as the judge made clear in the above order, is that you failed to attend the hearing. Sending documents to the court is not sufficient and you then take your chances; the court can decide the case in your absence.

 

You can easily see why the courts are strict on this otherwise no-one would attend the first hearing but would instead see if they win and, if not, have the judgment set aside and attend the new hearing for a second bite at the cherry.

[Old2072]

Hi Asokn,

 

It is a 90 mile round trip to the court (it is the nearest). I thought that sending proof that it was not my debt would be ok, now I know it wasn't. I will have to try and get a friend to take me and hope he will let me give him what I can spare from my benefits to cover his cost's over a couple of weeks,

 

Roy

[asokn]

I understand that it's difficult, the fact that more local courts are closing only makes matters worse but the justice system clings to the idea that people can attend their 'local' court.