Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[Nystagmite]

Near the beginning, where it asks what special arrangements you might need is a good place. They don't actually ask anywhere if you want the assessment recorded, nor do they even tell you that you have that option, and even when you do ask be prepared for your request to be ignored.

 

I didn't realise this and put it in an extra information box.

[reallymadwoman]

I didn't realise this and put it in an extra information box.

 

Just as good I would have thought. Since there isn't anywhere specific to put it and since it seems to be ignored anyway, I don't think it matters.

[**Margaret**]

:Request for an Audio Recorded Messical:

 

Page 2 or page 19 of an ESA50, or choose any page in between, or the envelope! Know someone who tried that one, in big red letters front and back of an Astressors white envelope. Didn't make a scrap of difference.

 

There's none so blind as them as has no intention of seeing.

 

The consolation prize is that one can prove an audio recorded messical was requested.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited October 30, 2012 by **Margaret**

[Simon7685]

It would help immensly if they could just add a simply asked question somewhere in the form. If they don't want to go to the expense of throwing away the forms already printed, why can't they just put a simple added piece of paper in with it? Or even simpler why can't they ask you when they ring you at the start of the process. Honestly it's 2012 and these things should not present a problem anymore. They rumble on about wastage and budget cuts and by not asking people if they want a recording and then having to reschedule appointments, it must be costing them more in the long run.

 

OOPS, I forgot they don't want us to know we can have a recording:lol:. So shhhh don't say it too loud everyone:madgrin:

[Nystagmite]

Far too sensible, Simon...

[Simon7685]

Maybe we should all write to DC and advise him on how much money they are wasting:lol:

 

Dear Mr C

 

I would like to draw your attention to how much money your ATOSser

is wasting. Perhaps you could advise Mr Duncan Smith ATOSser

are wasting his budget.

 

Couldn't resist going off topic sorry:madgrin:

[Nystagmite]

On a serious note, it would be interesting to know how much is bring wasted here.

[coolgeo5]

When I went for my ATOS medical I recorded it all on my iphone I never told them I was doing it,

I just pressed record and sat my iphone in the phone pocket on the front of my handbag and left it sitting on the chair,

It recorded everything plain and clear I am so glad it did because when I got my nil point report it was just lie after lie on it,

They said I was there from 11:45 to 12:10 when I was infact there from 10am my appointment time to 12:10 also they said one of my conditions asthma doesn't cause me any problems and my breathing was fine that day when infact as soon as I arrived

due to the walk from where I had to park my car to the medical centre I was out of breath and coughing and struggling to breathe the receptionist asked me if I was alright and if I would like some water I said yes I needed some water she had to switch on the water dispensing machine which should be on for the clients all this is on my phone so it just shows you the lies they tell on their reports total inacurracies in their reports so they can award yoy no points.

I am now appealing I would recomend everyone to record their medicals in what ever way they can.

[dpick]

They still tell lies when they know that they are recording the assessment.

 

dpick

[coolgeo5]

Well I have now appealed and on the form they sent me for more evidence I said unbeknown to ATOS

I recorded the whole thing on my iphone so I can prove their report is full of lies and inaccuracies.

My report kept harping on about the fact that I can drive a car and go to a supermarket several times a week

when I never said that at all,

for one I couldn't afford to go to a supermarket several times a week I said only when I go only when I need to go.

they said I was able to sit on the chair for 45 minutes and stand on my own then get up on their medical couch without any help,

To which I replied in my appeal how two days later my back went again and I was in agony for eight weeks and I blame ATOS for it I had to see my doctor twice and take strong pain killers and it was their fault for what they put me through at the medical and I have it all recorded secretly on my iphone,

They have aknowledged that I am appealing but I have heard nothing since August..................

[Simon7685]

Sounds like you had a very harrowing time of it and I am sure everyone on here wishes you well with your appeal. I am not sure exactly what the score is with your recording but as I undersand it you can't use it as evidence because it was covertly recorded. I might be wrong and I am sure someone on here will be able to tell you exactly what and how you can use it for your appeal.

 

The best thing for anyone to do is to ask for their WCA to be recorded by ATOS. They do not tell you can do this so you have to find out for yourself, for any newcomers reading this thread, put the request in your ESA50. I would also write and send a letter to ATOS requesting it and send a copy to DWP, do them both recorded signed for and they then can't deny it later.

 

If you have already submitted your form and didn't know, don't panic, just contact them now in writing, sent recorded. Put in the letter that you would have done it earlier in the process if you had known about it. If you have haven't asked and have received your appointment. Ring ATOS and advise them you want your WCA recorded. You couldn't ask before now because you didn't know you could, also put it in writing sent recorded.

 

Sorry to repeat what we already know but I suspect there will be people loining this thread who don't read it from the beginning and don't know how to do this.

[speedfreek]

Forget about what they or you said it's a misnomer a side track your appeal will win not on what they lied about; it will win on how you fit the ESA descriptors!

 

Your appeal is not how ATOS lied it is how the DM failed to spot x+y=z or the ATOSer said x+y=bollox when x+y=regulation pass.

 

Simple really they misinterpreted my answers!

 

My answers said!

 

Therefore I should be awarded ESA @ this rate.

[Simon7685]

I don't know about ESA appeals but as a 'survivor' of two sucessfull DLA appeals, it also goes on how you come accross at the appeal and how they perceive you. I know it's not supposed to but it does. People are swayed by what they see in front of them.

[coolgeo5]

As you say ATOS don't tell you you can have your medical recorded or offer to do it for you,

I just read on some sites that advised people to record or request their medical to be recorded and mine was due in a couple of days so I just thought I shall record it on my phone, I never told them as I just thought I would wait to see what the outcome was me being silly and thinking I would actually get the required 15 points.

I am glad I done it because it lets me know what happened and what was said in there and what fiction ATOS wrote on their report.

 

ATOS seem to have this idea that if you can walk or drive you are fit for work, I can walk although sometimes it's a bit sore to do so, I have never pretended oherwise but I have several conditions including arthritis of the spine which is very painful all the discs in my neck have collapsed into each other welding into one also the bones have fused in my shoulders this causes a lot of pain in my neck and shoulders also my lower back just goes on a regular basis and I am in agony and take strong pain killers that make me sleepy so how do they expect me to hold down a fulltime job and that's just one of my conditions.

At the end of the day the worse that can happen is they will make me sign on as being fit for work,

I'm sure if I told most future employers about my conditions and illnesses and how unreliable I would be due to my illness they would not want to employ me. I only get ESA nothing else if I had to sign on I would receive the exact same money the only difference would be instead of putting a sicknote in I would have to sign on.

[Nystagmite]

I don't know about ESA appeals but as a 'survivor' of two sucessfull DLA appeals, it also goes on how you come accross at the appeal and how they perceive you. I know it's not supposed to but it does. People are swayed by what they see in front of them.

 

This is true. It does look a bit odd if you claim you can't do something and turn up at appeal / medical and do it.

[worried33]

This is true. It does look a bit odd if you claim you can't do something and turn up at appeal / medical and do it.

 

This is why I said it can be better to have a written submission in some circumstances because it goes against the person appealing if they visibly doing something they said they struggle to do.

[RaeUK]

Well, what do you know? Here we are entering week 50 of my ESA claim and ATOSH finally get around to sending me an ESA50. Wahoo! Slightly disappointed they couldn't have left it another fortnight and made it an anniversary gift!

Anyhow, that puts me in the quandry that many of you face. To request a recording or not? On the 'no' side, I've waited a long time for my WCA to come a'calling, do I really want to delay the 0 pointer and all the fun of another Tribunal fair? Get it out of the way. Then again, on the 'yes' side, I've had two WCAs and read the lies from their Pinocchios - a Dr and a Dr - so maybe the added protection of a recording this time round would be useful. And, of course, I have my DLA HRM and MRC to protect.

On a side note, speaking of anniversaries, November 26th heralds my 4th ESA Assessment Rate Anniversary. Just letting you all know early so you can arrange the cards, bouquets and appropriate gifts. Party at mine ...

Edited November 4, 2012 by antone
Names removed

[Nystagmite]

er, congratulations Rae?

 

As of Monday, I would have been on ESA for 20 weeks.

[**Margaret**]

:RaeUK:

 

Tis a very strange world when receipt of 'the most unfit for purpose form that DWATO have ever managed to produce' is a possible cause for .

 

To (try to) record or not;

 

Any reason why you can't ask for an audio record of your messical now and, should you want to, withdraw your request later? Doubt they'd object!

 

Happy , Margaret.

[dpick]

RaeUK have your assessment recorded and check that at what you consider an important part they don't say "I will just check that I have got this down right" read what they have typed for approx 20sec then go to the next discripter without giving you the opportunity to complete what you wanted to say regarding the previous discripter, as they did with my friend's assessment which we did not spot until we had to appeal and listened to the CD of the assessment. In the stressed condition you will be in it is very easy to miss what they did to my friend, this was in at least 3 places.

 

dpick

 

dpick

[nolegion]

" DWP does not have any legal obligation to provide recording equipment. Claimants may use their own audio equipment to record their assessment; however the DWP requires that they must be able to provide a complete and accurate copy of the recording to the HCP at the end of the WCA.

 

There is no Parliamentary Act governing the audio or video recording of WCAs with reference to how ESA is to be administered."

 

DWP response to a FoI request, 05 11 2012:-

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/129007/response/328581/attach/3/FOI%203819%203523%20Mr%20J%20Otram%20Response.pdf

[estellyn]

" DWP does not have any legal obligation to provide recording equipment. Claimants may use their own audio equipment to record their assessment; however the DWP requires that they must be able to provide a complete and accurate copy of the recording to the HCP at the end of the WCA.

 

There is no Parliamentary Act governing the audio or video recording of WCAs with reference to how ESA is to be administered."

 

DWP response to a FoI request, 05 11 2012:-

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/129007/response/328581/attach/3/FOI%203819%203523%20Mr%20J%20Otram%20Response.pdf

 

Excellent. So if I take my USB recorder, blank USB memory stick and laptop, I can record the assessment, and provide a copy to the HCP before leaving the room?

[nolegion]

Given that the FoI enquiry concerned asked for details of ALL conditions that DWP seeks to impose on AUDIO-recordings to be taken by claimants, and that the text I reproduced from it is the ONLY part of the response which spells outany condition as regards the technical aspects of audio recording, I think it would be perfectly fair to claim that what you propose is in accordance with the what the DWP has now said, estellyn.

 

There is another request oustanding at the WDTK site detailing specific equipment in a similar vein to your query:-

 

"..a Dell laptop (and microphone) and standard off-the-shelf software which enables recording to hard disk and thence the production of two identical CDs (or DVDs)in an instant."

 

The DWP are in breach of statute in failing to answer that one so far, and have been so for several weeks.

 

(see; http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/the_perfect_entitlement_of_claim#comment-32099)

[Simon7685]

Is this going to be their way around the waiting lists where people are sat waiting for a recording when they would ordinarily have already been waterboarded by ATOSser?

 

Maybe someone has realised that people requesting recordings is starting to cause their wonderful system to buckle a bit, so come up with an alternative that puts responsibility back on the claimant, so no more delays?

[**Margaret**]

:Theory and Practice:

 

Yes, to the laptop etcetera. So long as you've got pinocchio's consent.

 

' ...... to the HCP at the end of the WCA, who must also have been consulted and agreed to the recording taking place.'

 

From :whatdotheyknow: freedom of info response VTR 3830-3543.

 

:flypig: come to mind, Margaret.

Edited November 12, 2012 by **Margaret**