Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[osdset]

Trying to record ATOS WCA assessments http://http://falseeconomy.org.uk/blog/trying-to-record-atos-work-capability-assessments

[hensteeth]

The DWP have my land line number, they ask me for it as part of the security rigmarole when I call them, I'm not particularly bothered if they have it or not, because they normally do everything in their power not to phone claimants, why would I worry? They already have my address, my NI number, and my medical records. It's not a police state yet.

 

In which case you must have disclosed it on some earlier occasion. It doesn't really matter, but if they are accessing it through other dubious means I would want to know!

 

I never disclose my number to anyone, no matter how much they insist on it, preferring only to deal with matters in writing. I do wonder how these 'cold callers' get my number given my refusal to every request.

 

I personally think it rather dangerous to enter into any discussion such as the one you did, when there is no evidence of what was discussed or even agreed.

 

But never mind, if you are happy, that's OK with me.

[Nystagmite]

Multi-million pound company Atos has faced heavy criticism for its handling of 'back to work' tests on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions, which disabled people and campaigners say are solely designed to cut the welfare bill. http://www.wired-gov.net/wg/wg-news-1.nsf/lfi/DNWA-8W2DZU

 

Haven't Cameron et al said all along that's why ESA has been introduced? Actually, I think it was more because apparently, too many have been on benefits for far too long. Many would struggle to hold down a job. That's if they can find someone to take them on.

[hensteeth]

Haven't Cameron et al said all along that's why ESA has been introduced? Actually, I think it was more because apparently, too many have been on benefits for far too long. Many would struggle to hold down a job. That's if they can find someone to take them on.

 

Yes I too believe that Labour had to bring out ESA as IB was fast becoming a 'dumping ground' for those who couldn't work and those that chose not to want to work with very little in the way of helping people back into a working life.

[worried33]

In which case you must have disclosed it on some earlier occasion. It doesn't really matter, but if they are accessing it through other dubious means I would want to know!

 

I never disclose my number to anyone, no matter how much they insist on it, preferring only to deal with matters in writing. I do wonder how these 'cold callers' get my number given my refusal to every request.

 

I personally think it rather dangerous to enter into any discussion such as the one you did, when there is no evidence of what was discussed or even agreed.

 

But never mind, if you are happy, that's OK with me.

 

you are right writing is always better, but postage with the DWP is now quite unreliable both in and out. All post to the BDC goes via a sorting office first. I have had sicknote's and appeals go missing and had medical appointment letters not arrive here as well, also various letters arrived opened. Some of the stuff I have had to sort out or someone on my behalf would have simply took too long via the post.

[worried33]

Yes I too believe that Labour had to bring out ESA as IB was fast becoming a 'dumping ground' for those who couldn't work and those that chose not to want to work with very little in the way of helping people back into a working life.

 

The problem with ESA is its gone too far the other way, and they also messed the assessment in that many more legitimant illnesses now dont qualify. Having 2 years between each assessment may seem stupid and not rigourous enough but the fact of life is many conditions do not improve unless some kind of new treatment becomes available or a miracle happens, so re assessing people every 3 months with long term detoriating conditions is a worser choice unless the aim is to reduce those on benefits.

 

IB in my view was more fit for purpose than ESA, the interviews on WRAG from what I hear are helping noone, people know how to do CV's and they know how to look for work. Forcing ill people to do things in a compulsaory manner doesnt help them as it adds stress and anxiety which triggers their helth to devline not to mention the extra physical loads on their bodies if they have a bad physical condition. Shifting these people of IB onto either JSA or nothing (as we cant assume they will all go onto JSA) doesnt suddenly make them more employable, they still have the same health conditions and are still out of work, the difference is the government is paying them either less or no money.

[jacob18]

I do not kow how esa works , does it mean i can work with claiming in the support group ? i have no idea ? i am not fir for work anyway i just do not understand why they are getting out of their tree about 28 pound a week ?

[jacob18]

I do know people who claim sick and work are they allowed to ? im so lost with this esa thing , if you are disabled surely cant claim sick ?

[jacob18]

I just wish i knew how the system works , my head is battered and fried !

[jacob18]

You were very lucky they made me go to a tribunal ! and i won

[jacob18]

How do i post a thread ? i still can't im lost !

[ErikaPNP]

How do i post a thread ? i still can't im lost !

 

When you come itnto the benefits, HMRC and minimum wage forum, scroll down a little and Click on the button that says 'post new thread'

[Nystagmite]

IB in my view was more fit for purpose than ESA

 

Agreed. I'm sure on IB, there were only a handful (well, a lot less than now) who were found fit for work when they weren't.

 

I guess in one way, WRAG is good for those who need a bit of help getting back to work and is something that should have been on IB.

[Slatted]

You think the system works!!?

[Nystagmite]

Who was that aimed at? if that was me, then no. I don't think it works. But there should be something in place to help the long term sick back into work (JSA doesn't help those people) if they feel they want to work. Similar I guess to WRAG.

[Slatted]

It was not aimed at you Nystagmite...I meant to reply to a quote from Jacob 18 where he wanted to know how the system works but seem to have missed that out! Sorry!

 

I would say that the pressure applied to those on WRAG, especially those deemed likely to be fit within six months or so....can rival JSA in some ways, from what I have heard and although its intention is clear I do not see the evidence in practise as they still use WP providers etc do they not...and of course the WRAG does not stop unpaid work experience being an option and that is full time I believe..not much evidence of helping the long term sick rather forcing them ....but that is what I have heard not experienced personally and again what happens in practise is not what the theory would indicate....

[osdset]

Good article here http://loanwolffe.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/british-government-attempt-at.html

[Dilizjo]

Excellent article:)

[nolegion]

Nice one indeed, odset.

 

Atos comment at the end of last week:-

 

"Due to minimal take-up during the pilot, we only have a limited number of recording devices available."

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/07/audio-recording-of-the-wca/

 

What part of 'over 60%' did they find difficult to understand (in their own shoddy little report on the pilot)?

Edited July 11, 2012 by nolegion

[Dilizjo]

Another 'Tough you will do it our way or the highway'.................

 

"We will make every effort to accommodate requests for this service and hope that we will be able to meet demand. However, under the terms of our contract with the Department, we cannot postpone an assessment on the basis of audio-recording."

 

Under the terms of their contract???????????? That would be a very interesting contract to read or have someone with legal understanding to read as it will be gobbledegook to me... but then again anything concerning ATOS is!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dilizjo]

Also very interesting to see no comments..... IMHO, bet there have been a few but they will have been read by the site administrators and not posted

[hensteeth]

Nice one indeed, odset.

 

Atos comment at the end of last week:-

 

"Due to minimal take-up during the pilot, we only have a limited number of recording devices available."

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/07/audio-recording-of-the-wca/

 

What part of 'over 60%' did they find difficult to understand (in their own shoddy little report on the pilot)?

 

 

That now seals the matter. In other words ATOS can say that no machine is available and we will all have to accept their word for it.

Given that they have had since 2011 to get the matter sorted, I cannot see that they will be in too much of a hurry to get the new machines.

 

So much for the promises made.

 

ah well back to the trusted slate and chalk to record notes on.

 

They must know that there will be an increase in personal recording of the assessment. No doubt more effort will be put into finding the funding for airport style xray machines and hand held body scanners as we walk into the waiting room.

 

When my review comes up I intend telling them when booking the assessment that I will be covertly recording the entire proceedings.

Whether I do or don't they won't know and would imagine that they could be very very jittery. If asked if I am I will tell them no but I will do!!

 

What are they going to do - search me? Or call me a liar?

Edited July 11, 2012 by hensteeth

[nolegion]

Noted Dilizjo. I gave a thought to adding something there, but oftentimes the contempt of silence is the better policy, I think.

 

Now...

 

As regards contractual arrangements – (see Dilizjo's pots#345 above) a (large) part of those is compliance by Atos, and those it engages, with the "WCA Handbook".

 

These are, misleadingly referred to as 'Regulations', but they are not actually (public) law: just part of how the DWP wants to organise things under its (private) contractual arrangements with its sub-contractor, and the result of them is open to legal challenge.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-handbook.pdf

 

If anyone has time to spare and\or insomnia, a long scroll will bring you to para. 4.1.3 (page 129) which sets out the still un-amended, supposed "rules'' on recording i.e before the fiasco currently in semi-operation was, er, 'dispensed'.

 

These pre-existing' arrangements' are the ones ErikPNP referred to at the very outset of this thread.

 

And from there you, I hope you will cheerfully note, that Atos may very specifically be required to postpone a WCA when a recording issue arises, viz:-

 

"Any request by aclaimant for an assessment to be audio or videotaped must be declined unless the above safeguards are in place. The claimant must instead be offered the opportunity of a rescheduled assessment in the presence of a companion or other witness."

 

Which can now be compared with that quote from Atos;-

 

"…under the terms of our contract with the Department, we cannot postpone an assessment on the basis of audio-recording."

 

I read elsewhere that Atos is seeking the aid of PR consultants. Long way to go.

Edited July 11, 2012 by nolegion

[nolegion]

Aye, hensteeth. What in practice currently underwrites the whole supposed change of policy (in my guess) is simply the increasing affordability of reliable personal and portable technology.

 

The law hasn't actually changed much about this for quite a while. It's the gadgets.

 

No professional (actual or purported) should be afraid for a patient\client\claimant - whatever - to have a full record of how they are treated behind closed doors. Now we can take it.

Edited July 11, 2012 by nolegion

[**Margaret**]

'I read elsewhere that Atos is seeking the aid of PR consultants. Long way to go'

 

A never ending? 'work in progress'???????

 

Margaret