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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Penalty Charge Notice


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Hi All

Does anyone know of a template letter I could use to challengea Penalty Charge Notice.

It was issued by City Of Westminster.

I have no real grounds to contest the ticket other than Ijust don’t want them to profit from my mistake (waiting on double yellows).

The ticket was issued for £60, but now stands at £130because I didn’t pay within 28 days!!!

So it would appear I must be punished!!

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why were you waiting on the DYL? If their was someone getting in or out of the car at the time, then the boarding and alighting excemption usually applies. Or were you really "parked" waiting for someone to arrive?

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Thanks

 

Has anyony heard of this approach?

 

Sending the PCN back to them with: REFUSED FOR CAUSE

WITHOUT DISHOUNOR on it.

Just something I picked up online!!

Not entirely sure what it means!?

Edited by jegneg
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Thanks

 

Has anyony heard of this approach?

 

Sending the PCN back to them with: REFUSED FOR CAUSE

WITHOUT DISHOUNOR on it.

Just something I picked up online!!

Not entirely sure what it means!?

 

 

Try it you have nothing to lose you have already gone past the discount period, we would be very interested on the outcome!

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There was a thread here, something like "confuse and conquer" technique. Basically, ask for saturday date for the first PATAS hearing. Normally they're fully booked plus being half working day, it'll take it to at least 5/6 months. Then nearing hearing date, call and cancel the date and book for another saturday. Another 5/6 months??? Then again cancel that as still within rights and book for another Saturday. Pray that after 1 year council will loose patience on waiting game for.....£130!

 

Edit: I can't seem to find the thread. Will appreciate if anyone can link here. Cheers.

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There was a thread here, something like "confuse and conquer" technique. Basically, ask for saturday date for the first PATAS hearing. Normally they're fully booked plus being half working day, it'll take it to at least 5/6 months. Then nearing hearing date, call and cancel the date and book for another saturday. Another 5/6 months??? Then again cancel that as still within rights and book for another Saturday. Pray that after 1 year council will loose patience on waiting game for.....£130!

 

Edit: I can't seem to find the thread. Will appreciate if anyone can link here. Cheers.

 

The Council don't have to show patience once the appeal is lodged they just wait until they get the verdict they will probably not even be aware its been postponed provided they send in the evidence on time they just forget about it until PATAS send them the outcome.

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The Council don't have to show patience once the appeal is lodged they just wait until they get the verdict they will probably not even be aware its been postponed provided they send in the evidence on time they just forget about it until PATAS send them the outcome.

 

Yeah understand that but what if council do have to pay the cost of hearing? ie everytime it's re-scheduled? Though no idea the actual cost for westminster but an example:

 

Dear Mr Jones

 

TfL ref: FOI-0509-1112

 

Thank you for your email received by Transport for London (TfL) on 20 July

2011 asking for information about the cost of cases prepared and defended

using the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service.

 

Your request has been considered under the requirements of the Freedom of

Information Act 2000 and TfL's information access policy. I can confirm

that TfL holds the information you require.

 

When a PCN is issued on the Transport for London Road Network, motorists

are given the opportunity to pay the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) at a

reduced rate of £65 if the penalty is paid promptly.

 

When a motorist submits an appeal to the Parking and Traffic Appeals

Service challenging TfL's decision to reject a representation, the

motorist loses the opportunity to pay the PCN at the reduced rate and the

full penalty of £130 applies.

 

The cost to TfL for contesting an appeal for PCNs issued on the Transport

for London Road Network is £35. The cost payable to PATAS for hearing

an appeal is £39.42.

 

If this is not the information you are looking for, please do not hesitate

to contact me.

 

If you are not satisfied with this response please see the attached

information sheet for details of your right to appeal.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Graham Hurt

 

FOI Case Officer

 

FOI Case Management Team

 

IACT, General Counsel

 

Transport for London

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