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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Wescot Claimform - old CAT debt


rogermeard
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UPDATE..........

 

Filled out the AOS online on 22nd. Sent off the CPR to the Claimant which was received by them wednesday 25th according to proof of post signature.

 

Had no response from the claimant at all so far.

 

So are the 7 days up or is it 7 working days?

 

How should i proceed now?

 

Hi rogermeard. Already covered in your CPR request >>>

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

Write/e.mail or whatever. Remind them of your letter and the content therein. Ask them to confirm if they want an extension. Or you'll be applying to the court that their claim be struck out as per your letter.

If they do wish to extend then get it in writing. It's then down to you to inform the court.

Mike

 

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UPDATE.............

 

We have received a letter from the claimant stating that in view of the dispute we have raised they do not intend to pursue the matter any further and have enclosed a Consent Order signed by the claimant.

 

If we agree to the Consent Order could we please sign it and return a copy to them so they can send it to the County Court.

 

Now this seems a bit strange is this normal procedure or are they up to something?

 

The consent order is worded.....

The Claimant and the Defendant (parties) having agreed to settle the dispute and have agreed

 

It is ordered that:-

 

1. The Claiments Claim against the Defendant, be withdrawn

 

2. No Order as to costs

 

 

Then it has a section for signatures one of which is signed by the claimant etc and one for defendant.

 

 

If this is indeed legitimate then why cant we send the form back to the Court ourselves rather than forwarding to the claimant first?

 

ADVICE PLEASE?

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Hi rogermeard, sounds good.

 

I think that they have to withdraw the claim being the claimant. They could be up to something but doubt it as it's in writing.

 

Await further info from others as I've not had one of these (yet lol).

 

If no replies then drop a PM to either DonkeyB or AndyOrch and ask them to look in and cast an eye over it. But looks like you've scared them off :-)

 

Mike

 

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UPDATE.............

 

We have received a letter from the claimant stating that in view of the dispute we have raised they do not intend to pursue the matter any further and have enclosed a Consent Order signed by the claimant.

 

If we agree to the Consent Order could we please sign it and return a copy to them so they can send it to the County Court.

 

Now this seems a bit strange is this normal procedure or are they up to something?

 

The consent order is worded.....

The Claimant and the Defendant (parties) having agreed to settle the dispute and have agreed

 

It is ordered that:-

 

1. The Claiments Claim against the Defendant, be withdrawn

 

2. No Order as to costs

 

 

Then it has a section for signatures one of which is signed by the claimant etc and one for defendant.

 

 

If this is indeed legitimate then why cant we send the form back to the Court ourselves rather than forwarding to the claimant first?

 

ADVICE PLEASE?

 

 

Result, looks like a win!

 

You have 3 options as far as I can see:

 

1) Sign it and send it back the them (keep copy) and forget all about it and move on with your life.

 

2) Ask they amend it to pay your costs instead of no order to costs to see what they say.

 

3) Reject it and fight on. You may win, you may lose.

 

 

 

Up to you...

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Hmmm........... looks like they've bottled it.

 

I'd be inclined to give them a bell and discuss the following in respect of discontinuance. Nothing ventured, nothing gained ........ and the consent remains valid if they don't want to play;

 

Claimant to discontinue

 

Claimant bears defendants costs at ........[circa £300.00]

 

Well done though, you've won whatever the consent terms

 

Gez

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"If this is indeed legitimate then why cant we send the form back to the Court ourselves rather than forwarding to the claimant first?"

 

No the Claimants Sols have prepared the Consent and as such must be returned to them to lodge and seal with the Court.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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"If this is indeed legitimate then why cant we send the form back to the Court ourselves rather than forwarding to the claimant first?"

 

No the Claimants Sols have prepared the Consent and as such must be returned to them to lodge and seal with the Court.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Yeah but........would you front it out for costs as additional term of consent? :-)

 

Gez

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Yeah but........would you front it out for costs as additional term of consent? :-)

 

Gez

 

You know my answer to that Gez:-D

 

Andy

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Worth a try but very doubtful on a Consent because its not actually a Discontinuance more like a elongated stay.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Heyho........ gotta be worth the price of a phone call :-)

 

Oh and, I'm about 24 hours away from settling mine...... PM me an e-mail addy I can forward some docs to you on before I sign on the dotted line and can't disclose.

 

Gez

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Just sent you a PM Gez (apologies Roger for the hijack well done by the way)

 

Andy

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It’s what the CO doesn’t say that’s a worry, as well as what it does.

 

It says you have agreed to settle the dispute. You have not – you know nothing of this debt. There is no dispute – just a denial that the debt is yours. Their wording implies you know what it’s about.

 

And then it doesn’t say they won’t try again.

 

Doesn’t say they won’t sell it on.

 

This is Westcot you are dealing with – incompetent idiots but, like most debt buyers, not immune to underhand dealings.

 

IMO, you should

 

(a) make sure you enter a defence on time anyway (so you can claim costs)

(b) maybe draft your own order which covers the issues.

 

There is no debt, if what you say is true, so there is no dispute. They are trying to get off the hook for nothing. They should simply discontinue and bear your costs.

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Thank you for looking over this. We have had no docs or info about the alleged debt whatsoever. Just the Court papers turning up then us replying with the AOS and a CPR to the claimant. Then the arrival of the letter stating they were not going to pursue the matter, so why the consent order and not just simply a discontinuance?

 

To me it smells a bit , seems like they a) want a signature for future use b) want admission there is a matter to resolve c) as said earlier what is stop them selling on?

 

It is also suspiciously near the 6 year limit.

 

Need to move on this , not really fussed about claiming costs as its just too much hassle. What defence should i put in or write a letter stating my concerns to the claimant about why not just discontinue?

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Because they are trying to avoid liability for costs. And maybe giving themselves another window of opportunity...

 

Getting a defence in anyway might be useful. Your defence would be a simple denial, stating you have no knowledge of the alleged debt, and that the claimant has failed to provide details despite a CPR request. You should state your right to amend your defence as and when the claimant provides any evidence.

 

What’s your final date for entering the defence?

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I recived the claim on 17th Jan (issued 12th). I sent the AOS online on the 23rd Jan. CPR recieved by claimant on the 25th Jan. I guess i get 14 days from the AOS date to enter a defence?

 

33 days from the 12th.

 

Mike

 

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UPDATE........

 

Filled out Defence section today. Basically stated that we do not recognise the contract/claim or claimant. Not recieved comms regarding this matter until claim recieved. No evidence recieved to support claim despite CPR being sent and that we reserve the right to amend the defence as and when docs recieved.

 

Guess that covers it.

 

Regarding the Consent Order sent by the claimant should i bother replying to that or ignore? Really after a Discontinuance i guess?

 

On a secondary point, we have been thinking loooong and hard and reckon this "could" be an old catalogue debt but to be honest we got in soooo much trouble back in 2005 we really cant recollect fully if it is or indeed to who . However if it is and we haven't paid/communicated since 2005/2006 time surely the alleged debt is Statue Barred also it does not appear on any of our credit file only the claimant has listed a Default on the file regarding the debt but in Jan this year only??

Edited by rogermeard
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UPDATE.............

 

We have received a letter from the claimant stating that in view of the dispute we have raised they do not intend to pursue the matter any further and have enclosed a Consent Order signed by the claimant.

 

If we agree to the Consent Order could we please sign it and return a copy to them so they can send it to the County Court.

 

Now this seems a bit strange is this normal procedure or are they up to something?

 

The consent order is worded.....

The Claimant and the Defendant (parties) having agreed to settle the dispute and have agreed

 

It is ordered that:-

 

1. The Claiments Claim against the Defendant, be withdrawn

 

2. No Order as to costs

 

 

Then it has a section for signatures one of which is signed by the claimant etc and one for defendant.

 

 

If this is indeed legitimate then why cant we send the form back to the Court ourselves rather than forwarding to the claimant first?

 

ADVICE PLEASE?

 

Wescott have been having quite a lot of claims struck out or are discontinuing then being responsible for Wasted Costs. I suspect that they are attempting to avoid either of these happening.

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Issuing a consent to withdraw is a very prudent way to discontinue IE no liability for costs.The other important factor is a consent normally only stays litigation not end it, how do you know the claim as been withdrawn?

 

Regards

 

Andy

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  • 3 weeks later...

Have you checked with the court? They may [unlikely I know] have filed a discontinuance?

 

They've already acknowledged they have no commercial interest in proceeding.

 

Check with the court on Monday to see if the status has changed or if anything's been filed by the other side, you can look at your options afterwards.

 

Gez

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