Bryan Carter/ Arrow Global Ltd court papers - 1996 TSB loan - **DISCONTINUED **

[Tecnobaz]

Nothing from these guys for ages then today dated 21st Dec

 

We have now issued litigation proceedings in the county court ( No mention which one). You will receive the claim form in the next 48hrs direct from court.

 

Genuine? or just a well timed attempt to stir?

 

Merry Christmas all.

Barry

[Tecnobaz]

Think I should take this as the papers are on the way I have found this letter on another post and indeed 2 days later the court papers arrived.

 

The OC was TSB they were sent CCA request back in 2008 they never completed that request. They fully assigned the account to Arrow Global in 2009 at the time this was done should I have sent a new CCA request to Arrow?

Edited December 24, 2011 by Tecnobaz

[Tecnobaz]

Today I have been sent court papers regarding a Bank loan which has been passed from pillar to post for over 3 years between DCA's and the OC '

 

TSB the loan dates back from 1996.

 

They were sent a CCA request way back in 2007 and never completed that request.

 

In Jan 2010 they assigned all rights to Arrow Global ltd who also passed it between Westcot,Credit Security Ltd and now Bryan Carter.

 

Bryan Carter have now gone to court, the particulars of claims:

 

The claimants claim is for for balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable

 

The defendant agreed to pay monthly installments under account number xxxxxxxxxxxx but has failed to do so.

 

And the claimant claims the sum of xxxxxx

 

The claimant also claims interest thereon pursuant to s.69 county court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to 0.00

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have made no payments to Arrow Global or Bryan Carter or agreed to.

A few were made via a debt management company to TSB before 2007,

but due to loosing my Job I had to stop those.

 

Which bits of the forum should I read first as I could quite quickly send my head so dizzy

this is timed so perfect with everything thats going on as I was laid of from work just 2 weeks before Christmas

but luck has it I found another not so well paid or as many hours but its a job.

 

Merry Christmas.

Barry

 

Would anybody like to confirm my time line just to make sure its right.

21st Dec + 5 = 26th Dec + 14 = 9th Jan 2012 + 14 = 23rd Jan 2012

Edited December 24, 2011 by Tecnobaz

[citizenB]

Yes, your time line is accurate.

 

What paperwork do you have and what paperwork do you need.

 

They actually mention the agreement so you can in fact request that under CPR31.14. Have a read of the attachment I have posted below to see how you use that.

 

It is disgraceful that they have issued this so near to the Bank holiday as it cuts down your time and the post is dreadful. So you will need to send any correspondence at least by Recorded Delivery mail.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32374[/ATTACH]

 

There are links to threads for information that you will need to read.

[citizenB]

When you are drafting your CpR31.14 you should also request a statement of account from inception in order that you can assess if the amount htey are claiming is accurate.

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from LTSB ? They were notorious for not sending them and going straight to Final Demand via their solicitor, SCM.

 

Do you know if there were any default/late payment charges added to the account. Was there any Payment Protection Insurance included at the time you took the loan out?

[citizenB]

Have merged two threads on the same issue

[Tecnobaz]

Only thing I have is the letter of assignment to arrow from arrow my request for the cca to the TSB and proof that they got it also afew letters from other dca's and my reply to them with the standard what you doing this account is in dispute letter from the debt forum.

 

As charges ect there would have been loads when it first was with TSB and myself and the wife both think ppi was forced upon us but with no paperwork we could be wrong.

 

Thank you for your input and reply on Christmas day very unexpected but very very welcome.

 

Barry

Edited December 25, 2011 by Tecnobaz

[Jasper1965]

They cannot enforce the agreement whilst in default of your CCA request. (There's unambiguous recent case law on this) so the fact you can prove it was made and received will help with your defence.

The chain of assignment is always going to be worth making BC prove.

Is it possible you made the original CCA request with a view to establishing whether worthless PPI had been forced upon you?

 

Without getting blase about these matters there's a fair chance that the original agreement either never existed, existed and was flawed or existed and has been destroyed.

Provision of a reconstruction might well be beyond the scope of BC and highly likely to be inaccurate in some respect.

Can you give us an approximate value of the value of the claim please? It's very possible BC will follow their normal MO and fold upon acknowledgment or challenge if it's a low value claim as this is a potential costs nightmare for them if they don't have all the paperwork you'll be forcing them to provide.

 

I can see you making a 31.14 request for docs mentioned supplemented by a part 18 request for information. BC's don't like this behaviour as it means they have to work for their money and tips them off the defendant is no mug. They are kings of the default judgment for a reason ie they issue loads of claims, discontinue those that are defended and the %ages on the no acknowledgments/no defence default judgments makes it very lucrative for them. But let's assume nothing other than they are prepared to see this all the way and fight them on that basis?

[Tecnobaz]

The amont is around £3500 the cca was requested to check if legal and to confirm the amount and what the default charges were as the amount being claimed by the dcas kept changing and I lost track of the true figure.

[Tecnobaz]

Is it ok to use the website to confirm Aos and should I do that today?

 

Reading up today and should post a draft of my CPR 31.14 hopfuly later on.

[Tecnobaz]

Can anybody help as to how and where abouts on my CPR 31.14 to add in my CPR 18 request for statements and default notices.

Or should it be another letter enclosed with this one?

[citizenB]

Is it ok to use the website to confirm Aos and should I do that today?

 

Reading up today and should post a draft of my CPR 31.14 hopfuly later on.

 

You have until the 9th January 2012 to acknowledge service.. so a little time in hand.

 

If you require statements in order to work out your charges claim, then you will do that via a Subject Access Request = Cost £10.00 and you can ask for ALL information that the bank holds on you. You will find a draft letter in the CAG library linked at the top of each screen.

 

Your CPR31.14 and CPR18 are two separate requests. So you will have one letter headed CPR31.14 and another CPR18 - Dont mix them up.. However, you can put them in the same envelope. I cant remember whether there is a draft CPR18 in the link I gave you.. so have popped that below for you.

 

Worded correctly you could possibly obtain a list of charges via CPR18

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31.14-Confused-well-read-here

 

Your Subject Access Request will go to the Original Creditor - if you send it to BC, it will not be passed on.

[sillygirl1]

I would have thought it too late to SAR - and too long a timeframe, CPR should be more than sufficient for this as the company should have this info anyway.

[Tecnobaz]

Thank you for your help CitizenB. I can't post anything out yet due to bank hoildays so would like to take this extra time to get things right.

[citizenB]

I would have thought it too late to SAR - and too long a timeframe, CPR should be more than sufficient for this as the company should have this info anyway.

 

Yes, you are correct SG..

[Tecnobaz]

So CPR 31.14 is standard with only the agreement to ask for as they mentioned no other docs in Poc.

 

As for the CPR 18 request, I've seen looking around and reading that this has been misused many times as a way of getting other documents and is only for getting an answer to a question.

[citizenB]

So CPR 31.14 is standard with only the agreement to ask for as they mentioned no other docs in Poc.

 

As for the CPR 18 request, I've seen looking around and reading that this has been misused many times as a way of getting other documents and is only for getting an answer to a question.

 

Yes, you can only request sight of documents that are mentioned in the POC by way of CPR31.14

 

CPR18.. you need to word your request in the form of a question.

 

EG, "please confirm that a Default Notice was issued and on what date and do you have a copy in your possession" Depending on their reply you should then be able request sight of that document.

 

I will try and find you an example.

[Tecnobaz]

Ok so, Can you please confirm that no charges have been added to the above mentioned account since the Default notice was issued and that you have documented proof that the amount being claimed is correct?

 

Would this question get them checking all statements? Wouldn't they just answer Yes the amount is correct.

[citizenB]

Ok, here is how a CPR part 18 should look.. Please do not just blindly copy it.. adapt to suit your circumstances. Courtesy of Undercover-Elsa

 

xx

 

Your Name

Your Address

 

IN THE XXXXXXXXX county court

CLAIM NO:

BETWEEN:

XXXXXXXXXX

Claimant

and

XXXXXXXXXXX

Defendant

PART 18 REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

 

To: XXXXXXXXXX (claimant)

　

Please answer the following questions:

1. Upon what date was the last payment made on the account?

2. What was the source, method and amount of the payment?

3. Was a Default Notice issued pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) and if so:

a] Upon what date, for what amount and what was the date for remedy of the breach?

b] Was the issuance of the Default Notice noted in the communications log?

4. Does the amount claimed include charges, and if so what amount?

　

　

TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU

 

xx

[Tecnobaz]

Please answer the following questions:

1. When was the last payment made on the account?

2. Can you please confirm that no charges have been added to the above mentioned account since the Default notice was issued and that you have documented proof that the amount being claimed is correct?

3. Are you able to confirm and have documented proof that payment protection insurance was not automatically added to the account ?　

[citizenB]

Are those the questions you require answers to? If so, go for it

[Tecnobaz]

They'll do,

really I'd like to ask why you have started a claim while there is a pending CCA request from 2007?

[citizenB]

They'll do,

really I'd like to ask why you have started a claim while there is a pending CCA request from 2007?

 

So ask.. see below..

 

"Are you aware that a CCA 1974 request was made to BANK NAME on DATE 2007, and that this request remains unfulfilled ?"

[Tecnobaz]

So the CPR31.14 looks like this :

 

----------------------------------------------------------

Xxxxxx

Xxxxxx

Xxxxxx

Xxxxx

xxxxxx

26th December 2011

Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

Persimmon House

Dehavilland Drive

Brooklands Business PK

Weybridge

Surrey

KT13 0NT

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: Arrow Global limited v Tecnobaz Case No: xxxxxxxx

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 24th December 2011, I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tecnobaz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And with it put on another sheet of paper the CPR18 is as follows :

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Xxxxxxx

Xxxxxx

Xxxxxx

Xxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

26th December 2011

 

Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

Persimmon House

Dehavilland Drive

Brooklands Business PK

Weybridge

Surrey

KT13 0NT

 

 

Re: Arrow Global limited v Tecnobaz

Case No: xxxxxxxx

issued by you out of the Northampton county court.

 

PART 18 REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

　

Please answer the following questions:

 

1. Are you aware that a CCA 1974 request was made to the TSB on 12/11/2007, and that this request remains unfulfilled ?

 

2. When was the last payment made on the account?

 

3. Was a Default Notice issued pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) and if so what was the date of issue and for what amount.

 

4. Can you please confirm that no charges have been added to the account since the Default Notice was issued and that you have documented proof that the amount being claimed is correct?

 

5. Are you able to confirm and have documented proof that payment protection insurance was not automatically added to the account ?　

 

　

TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

I am planning on sending this out Royalmail Special Delivery.

[Jasper1965]

I think you need to be more penetrating with your part 18 request. Load the questions and use it to put the claimant on the back foot.

 

eg

1. Are you aware that a CCA 1974 request was made to the TSB on 12/11/2007, and that this request remains unfulfilled ?

 

becomes

 

1. I can prove that a lawful request was made under sec 77 of the CCA 1974 on 12/11/2007 directly to Lloyds TSB, to date this request remains unfulfilled.

(a) Is the claimant in a position to supply the requested documentation and thus fulfil the sec 77 request either now or before this matter reaches hearing stage?

(b) Was the claimant aware that this unfulfilled request had been made under sec 77 of the CCA by the defendant at the time of bringing these proceedings?

 

2) What documentary evidence does the claimant currently possess to prove the following?

(a) That the amount claimed is lawfully due.

(b) That a valid agreement compliant with the requirements of the CCA 1974 exists/ever existed?

© That a valid default notice in the prescribed form has been issued.

(d) That the claimant has legal title to the account under which this claim is brought?

(e) That the account was lawfully terminated.

(f) That the agreement upon which this claim is based is enforceable?

 

3). With ref to 2(d):

The defendant has received a large number of communications about this account from the following companies Sechiari Clarke and Mitchell, Arrow Global, Wescott, Credit Security Ltd. and Bryan Carter all of whom have either claimed to own the account or be collecting for their client, sometimes both. The defendant is embarrassed to admit they do not know who actually owns the account and in the absence of any notice(s) of assignment pursuant to sec 136 of the Law of property 1925 might seek to contest any assignments claimed to have been perfected by the claimant. Can the claimant please do the following:

(a) Clarify the history of ownership of this account?

(b) Provide evidence to prove that any assignments made under LOP 1925 were perfected in law for each instance an assignment occured?

 

4. When was the last payment made on the account?

 

5. Was a valid Default Notice issued pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) and if so what was the date of issue, the date of remedy and the amount for remedy?

 

 

6. Can you please confirm by means of a breakdown the total amount of penalty charges, default charges, penalty interest charges, letter charges, management charges, litigation charges, or any other type of charge that was not included in the original figures on the loan agreement that have been added to the account or the amount claimed since 1996 (if any) ?

 

7. Are you able to confirm that payment protection insurance was not automatically added to the account or missold at inception or if ppi has indeed been added to the account could you confirm the total amount paid towards ppi including interest thereupon and the amount (if any) of alleged outstanding ppi payments which form any part of the amount claimed in this action?　

 

8) Has the claimant complied with the requirements of the CCA 1974 as amended by the CCA 2006 in respect of the provision of statements?